173 réponses à ce sujet

[Wissenschaft]

I think religions in IRL are a lot more complicated than the chantry. One of the side effects of any intuition run by humans is a lot of complicated history.

 

In origins I played both a devout Human/ City Elf and those that don't believe in the chantry like the Dalish or Dwarves. Its just a matter of roleplaying to me, I don't let my real life opinions color my view of a fantasy world. I like to set myself in the mindset of someone born in that game universe and roleplay from there.

 

I do note that some people hate the chantry for Meta Game reasons, such as they are Atheist and will never support any religion, not even in a video game. I'm not saying thats wrong, to each their own, but its not my style. I prefer to roleplay a character based on what I think their believes would be based on their background.

[Wolfen09]

well, i am athiest now, but i was raised catholic... up until sophmore year of highschool.  Im not a hardcore athiest either, im not gonna get all angry cause the park has a nativity scene around christmas like some people do.  I find that im really tolerant of other religions, so i dont really see the chantry in too bad of a light.

 

I think its good on paper and it would work if everyone followed that idea, but there is corruption throughout the chantry.  Before any good can be done by the chantry, it must first be cleansed of the corruption. 

[MillKill]

It's got it flaws, but does much more good than harm.

[cJohnOne]

I think its fun to be friends with Leliana, Wynne and Alistair.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Like real world religions, I am wholly indifferent to it until it makes a material difference, and then I judge it based on the merits of that difference.

 

It is neither good nor bad.  It simply is.

[raging_monkey]

I have no problem with its follows and they are right about somethings. My only grip is how their leadership treat non-humans and converters to other faiths and magi aside from those the chantry does some good work

[Zakhar]

I am neutral on it. Not one for "grr destroying the establishment" especially since it'd fix jack all.

[Parkimus]

I'm agnostic, but I actually like the Chantry since it doesn't seem extremist (save for a few individuals but every group has those, religious or not). I certainly prefer the Chantry to the Qun.

[mordy_was_here]

I am accepting of all religions, even fictitious ones. I also side with them most of the time, even when it comes to mages. Yes, I know; boo, hiss. They try to do right, and their core ideals are okay. Bad apples are in all factions, so I pretty much disregard them. It doesn't bother me that the Chantry is around, and it doesn't bother me to side with them.

[Yinello]

Like with everything else, I'll support the people in it who do good and go against those who do bad. Good and are subjective of course but generally in the values we have become accustomed to.

[AlexiaRevan]

I played alot of rpg games where a religion exist , although I admit none of those hit close to the real religion we can find in real life . In Baldurs Gate 2 (SOA) You have a whole Temple district where you can have 4 Temples dictated to 4 different deity and with different alignement . Most of the rpg I played did , in NWN it felt like the fall of Tyr , then come NWN2 and Tyr is back in strenght . 

I played lawful Good Paladin and Cleric of Illmater more often then I count . 

 

I dont know if the setting is different , I dont know if it because the chantry seem way too look alike to the real religion we have . But I have giant grip with the chantry . which I didnt have with any other game . 

 

Then again the difference for exemple of a temple of Helm and the chantry was that if anything happen , the Temple of helm will punish its acolyte . But none of those temples had anything like the chantry did : A Templar system apart from the church that act like an army . Or a group of mages in a circle . So that kinda complicate thing more . 

 

In real life Im not a religious person but I wont call myself an Atheist either . I dont follow any philosophy at all . I dont have any issue playing a religious person save for the Dragon Age game where I couldnt . Again due to how complicated it felt . and the issue , to which in my opinion where often overlooked and dumbed to : the end justifie the mean . In which I disagree . 

 

For me a system that fail to cater to a minoritee , I dont care if it is catering to X but letting Y die and starve . Its a failed system , period . I believe that if we can come up with horribles stuff like the cirlce , we can try and find better solution . But often that seem out of reach...what I have a grip with is the lack of trying . And I base my belief in that in real life , I come from the Minoritee that end up screwed . And my existance isnt some technicality that can measure in <well if you die...then it is justified cose we saved some over there< . 

 

Again...this is my opinion and my belief . 

[Chernaya]

I don't judge the Chantry as a whole because I am aware that it does indeed do good. It also has very good followers who believe in its good parts even though they may hesitate to think about the other parts. Some of my favorite DA characters have been Andrastians because they are good people who like to help others. I can't just ignore the bad or questionable though, and it does plenty of that as well. So while I don't necessarily like it, I don't want to destroy it or take it away from those who find peace in it. 

[AlexiaRevan]

The only issue I have with the Dalish are  :  as much as I can sympathize with their need to get their past back , I frown how much effort they put in it instead of trying to get the city elf back in the fold .

To me (and that is again my opinion) I would rather they put more effort in bringing the city elf back with the dalish then focus on some old relic . I understand their need to have a past . But the way they focus on it , it almost make you feel as if they are looking not (for a past) but for a powerful past that will send them toward greateness in one go .

While I would have focused the dalish energy in getting the city elf from underneath the Humans oppression first and foremost . Not just because the way they are treated . But also, because some of the Elder have lore too .They may have knowledge too! and really , your history is more important then having able body! No way .

If the dalish and the city elf were one peoples that a long time ago they split . Then more reasons to be united , for uniting them maybe just bring forth more of their past but more importantly a better futur . The dalish focus way too much in their past (which in a way I get it , but very little is shown of them looking toward the futur) .  

 

And the same goes for the crappy Castless system . Just in case you are wondering  

[Notshauna]

To use a Christian phrase, love the sinner, hate the sin. I am not pro-chantry in the slightest, they're tyrants who rally over a religious ideal rather than a nationalist or philosophical one. I don't hate Chantry members (not even the Divine) I hate the collective inertia that drives all massive organizations to become focused with nothing but it's own survival.

[Dayze]

Well....its certainly flawed but considering the situation its in and the nature of mages, demons and what have you.

 

Basically the Chantry could have handled things better in some ways and like basically any organization it has some corruption going on.

 

But I don't know can't say as a whole it was "evil" or anything.

 

Though its not impossible I missed obvious things to point in that nature.

 

I can't recall if it has a stance on where women are supposed to be in the way of things, so don't know if its sexist or not.

[Killdren88]

The only reason I'm somewhat against the Chantry is because I like to indulge in my own God Complex. If I can have the opportunity to take on a God be it Fantasy or otherwise, I would relish in it.

[Gtdef]

I don't identify as an atheist. More as a pragmatic agnostic. I'm completely indifferent to the debate about the existence of a deity. I only observe the results and the influence.

 

As long as the beneficial function of the chantry outweights it's corruption then I'm inclined to be supportive. While my relationship with religion is pretty much non existent, I see the need for divine protection and forgiveness around me. So I wouldn't do anything to compromise this without a reason. Of course this "need" can be seen as the result of religious conditioning, which makes this circular. I just exist to advocate that religion has no bearing in the morality of these matters and it's only higher function is enabling the faithful, making them consider actions and thoughts that they wouldn't without it.

 

What does this mean for the game? Speaking as the "Inquisitor" I don't see the chantry as a force for unconditional good, rather than an organization that provides a specific (and perhaps volatile) kind of entertainment. Which means that they have to earn my support. It's their job to police themselves and if they fail to do this I will do it for them.

 

Also I consider religion to be a valid concept as long as the deity in question is invisible. The moment it becomes visible it's not religion any more. It's a different thing. The ties between religion and worship are broken.

[Ynqve]

I'm not a fan of the Chantry at all, but it has very little to do with their faith. It's all about the corruption within the organization and their treatment of elves and mages. If the Chantry change their ways, then I guess I'll have no problem with them.

[Ina]

As an atheist leaning agnostic, I find there are certain aspects about the chantry that give answer to the skeptic within me. There seems to be some evidence that the religion is based on something real which is something I can get behind. I like that chantry followers such as Leliana aren't blind followers and are capable of reflecting on their beliefs from both sides. I don't like the negative side to the chantry with their underlying racism, classism and general bias against those they consider outsiders. As a whole, though, I'm both indifferent and ignorant about religions in general so what I say is probably wrong/offensive/rubbish/laugh worthy or all of them.

[Hazegurl]

When I first played Origins I instantly found myself agreeing with Morrigan and since I was playing a Dwarf Noble, it wasn't even difficult for me to laugh at the Chantry folks, but as I got farther along it became pretty clear that not everyone within the Chantry is bad. The way the Mages are treated is unacceptable to me, but a few bad apples, right? Leliana is naive, but not that bad and I feel similary about Sebastian. The Grand Cleric in DA2 actually seemed like somone who desperately wanted peace between Templars and Mages. Then again people like Mother Patrice didn't help in convincing me of the Chantry's merrits.

 

Overall, I'm pretty split on it. I think the Chantry is a lot more complex than religions IRL, but I don't believe they have all the answers like they think they do, either.

 

What do you guys think?

I never had a problem with the Chantry or the sisters. I just took them all at face value. Loved the Ham lady and Patrice was awesome.  But of course they have their bad apples as well. I think the only good the Chantry does is give the weak hope (like real religion).

 

 I like some of their ideals concerning the danger of mages but the methods I disagree with.  I also don''t think they have all the answers. Or even many answers for that matter. 

[tirnoney]

I hope this doesn't descend into an RL discussion on atheism. 

 

I see the chantry as a reflection of real world Christianity where they've basically replaced Jesus with Andraste.  But Thedas is a very different world than ours, what with magic, demons, the fade, and the black city.  All are arguably more suggestive of a god-like presence than what exists in our world.  In that sense I'm more sympathetic to its beliefs.

 

Is it a force for good?  That's a more difficult question but is easier to relate to real life religious debates.  Would the good people serving the chantry be good anyway?  It also has its fair share of zealots (e.g. Petrice).  Just like a mirror of the real world, the Chantry in Thedas is probably not what Andraste had in mind.

 

Then there is the circle issue.  I can't help but wonder what circles would be like if they were created to protect mages from themselves and demons without the Chantry overlay.  Does the Chantry's stance on magic add anything to the problem or make it worse?  Does it help the system for mages to feel shame for the way they were born?  I don't think so.  In fact, it makes it more likely that mages will come to resent the circle system and rebel.

 

And finally the ordinary people of Thedas, how does the chantry help them?  Poor peasants who cannot read or write may be a group that does benefit from the Chantry.  We know they have a significant charitable role in that regard.

 

Another question is would a secular Thedas be any better?  I doubt it.