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[TEWR]

The Highever Alienage and how the Elves are treated is something to definitely examine. Most of what the dialogue seems to talk about is more how the common folk feel towards the Elves, rather then anything about the Couslands themselves (Iona being the exception). Nan's dialogue is definitely something you wouldn't want to hear your boss say, but I don't think she intends to follow through with it. The two elves call her a miserable old bat within earshot, which if being severely punished by being beaten/whatever was in the cards wouldn't be something they'd do (until they were away from her at least).

 

So I think it's partially a result of just them having a very vicious dynamic together.

 

Nelaros is the apprentice to a blacksmith whom, as it turns out upon inspecting the wedding ring item, happens to be his father. You hear tell of how it's a very successful business and you also hear from Soris that Nelaros is a savage fighter, which seems to indicate experience with weaponry, though smithing doesn't just include weapons. Contrast to the Denerim alienage which had a ban on Elves bearing weapons following the riots and even before that it wasn't something that was particularly looked upon favorably, to say nothing of how Elves can't even get decent jobs like that.

 

The codex from the hahren of the Highever alienage (whose date of origin is never given) doesn't make mention of anything occurring in Highever itself, though it implies such by what it mentions. But it also shows the problems with the Elves themselves for how they treat those who do well for themselves. A family makes a good break and the Alienage Elves disown them for leaving and seemingly "giving up", only to welcome them back when their holdings are burned down by looters. In that regard, the City Elves and the Dalish Elves aren't very different. Both are willing to disown other Elves for a difference in lifestyle choices.

 

Also, in regards to the Mabari Hound, the option exists for the HN to say that he knows better to hurt anyone. As some people tend to take the presence of an option to suggest the Elves be beaten as evidence of the Couslands being awful towards Elves, that seems to indicate that the Elves could've gotten the Hound out if they had tried to.

 

Not that I blame them for the fear they had, mind you. Just that if they had attempted it, I'd reckon they would've been successful.

[gottaloveme]

Unfortunate about the Highever alienage. I always headcannon that my Queen takes Amethyne (Ionas' daughter) from Denerim and takes care of her. Let the rest of the nobles sneer at a 'knife ear', if that is all they are good at.

 

I have always role-played a similar thing. Looking out for her. But I also always wondered if Bann Loren's lands are near Lake Calenhad then why is she in Denerim's alienage? It would be one hell of a commute for her mother. And if it's just another writing hole - then why bother?

[KatDancer]

I think the dialogue you recall might be either something Nessa's father says when discussing his desire to look for work in Highever:

 

Spoiler

PC!Tabris: Moving to a different alienage isn't easy. Travel and bribes cost money.

Nessa's dad: Humans are a suspicious lot. I've heard the ones in Highever are worse than here.

 

or this, from conversation with both Nelaros and Nesiara:

 

Spoiler

PC!Tabris: How do you feel about moving to Denerim?
Nelaros/Nesiara: Denerim itself seems friendlier than Highever... perhaps because it's so large that humans take less notice of us.

I think it is Nessa's Dad that I remembered..

[KatDancer]

Also, in regards to the Mabari Hound, the option exists for the HN to say that he knows better to hurt anyone. As some people tend to take the presence of an option to suggest the Elves be beaten as evidence of the Couslands being awful towards Elves, that seems to indicate that the Elves could've gotten the Hound out if they had tried to.

 

Not that I blame them for the fear they had, mind you. Just that if they had attempted it, I'd reckon they would've been successful.

Ser Gilmore's a trained knight in armor, and yet he's unwilling to try it -- and if you say the hound knows better than to bite, his answer is pretty much "Nevertheless, I won't try my luck."

[TEWR]

I know. All I'm saying is that chances are, the Hound probably wouldn't have attacked anyone. I don't blame either party for erring on the side of caution. I'm just saying if they had gone through with it, their fears might've turned out to be wrong for this particular Mabari.

[KatDancer]

I know. All I'm saying is that chances are, the Hound probably wouldn't have attacked anyone. I don't blame either party for erring on the side of caution. I'm just saying if they had gone through with it, their fears might've turned out to be wrong for this particular Mabari.

He did bite Alistair, remember. 

[sylvanaerie]

He did bite Alistair, remember. 

Well, Alistair was messing with his food.  But then, considering Morrigan was the cook, I don't blame the boy for eyeing whatever was on the mabari's plate enviously...

[gottaloveme]

Poor old hapless Alistair. When you hear a trap go off in the background ten to one it's Alistair. I'm sure, however, that in skinning the elves - Nan's bark is all she has. No bite. Warden saying why don't you whip them? Facetiousness. Alienages are always going to be bad.

 

Again as per Alistair and the dog - take only the both of them along some time and hassle Al for a kiss. Jealous bark.

[Aren]

all this mess because Maric disappeared thanks to the witch of Yavana.

[gottaloveme]

Pretty sure that the 'official story' was that there was an elven uprising that killed the entire Cousland family.  I think it was mentioned in of the rumors or gossip dialogues, but I'm not exactly sure.

 

Edi in a Santa suit?

[BronzTrooper]

Edi in a Santa suit?

 

Why not?  

[Merle McClure II]

Hmm, a few thoughts;

 

 

-- I'm glad to have finally seen the Gaidar quote that supposedly "proves" Loghain was innocent of the Highever Slaughter and after reading it I'm even more convinced that Loghain was indeed involved in said slaughter. "... but by then the two were already in bed together ..." is rather damning all on it's own.

 

 

 

-- Whether or not Bryce was aware of Alistair or even if he would have believed Eamon's rather ... weak claims is secondary, Bryce himself has a claim to the throne and I believe would have probably accepted the moment the Banns started calling for him to take it this time as it's my understanding that the only reason he didn't take it from Callian was respect for Marric.

 

 

-- IF anything, I figure that if Bryce was still around, that first cut scene would have ended with most of the room chanting Bryce's name and Anora/Loghain being forced to stalk off, which is why the Coustlands had to die and Loghain first got involved with Howe. (It's also why Eamon had to be removed from the picture as well, whether or not you believe Gaider's nonsense about Eamon not supposed to die according to Loghain's plan.)

[TEWR]

 

OP: I'm sure the Couslands would have fought against Loghain. In a world filled with realistically flawed characters and grey-and-grey morality, the Couslands stand out as a beacon of super-special-awesome perfect Mary Sues with squeaky clean clean records and pristine white morals. They were always magically on the right side in every skirmish in Ferelden history ever since there was a Ferelden (post-Calenhad), and remain the most popular and beloved EVERY generation for a thousand years...

 

Avernus waves hello. Granted he "nudged" the Couslands to help out -- it wasn't full on mind control. Just suggestions -- but still... they were on the wrong side of that one. And he really only nudged Teyrn Cousland. The other members probably agreed of their own volition.

 

 

I think you're giving that dog way too much credit. While several characters over the game praise the Mabari for being fiercely loyal and intelligent, they also comment on how Mabari are hot-blooded and aggressive. Unless you are it's imprinted owner, it is likely to bite or scratch or take the arm off someone who tries to restrain it. Based on Nan and Ser Gilmore's dialogue, your own Mabari has a history of being naughty and breaking into the lardar. Ser Gilmore, Nan, and the elves make it clear that they need you to restrain your dog because it's not safe for them to do so. Yet Nan is willing to try to force some elves who have no authority over a dog to try to retrain it despite knowing they could lose an arm, since she won't try to restrain it herself. So the elves are stuck: they either have to risk their arms trying to restrain a potentially dangerous (to them) animal or sit there and take Nan's verbal abuse, with only their boss's child to get the dog.

 

Eh, it's not like they'd be trying to take away food from the dog like Alistair did. It all depends on how they interact with him, I suppose. Dog loves being loved, and at this point he was breaking into the larder not for food but because there were giant rats that he cornered there. So he probably wouldn't have tried anything.

 

Probably because the rats would've tried something, and the Elves are easily scared if you tell them about the rats, so they probably would've fled for the other side of the castle.

 

But it, like many things, is probably a thing people could headcanon. Is their dog loyal to them only or would he listen to other people because he was trained very well, even if he's still only imprinted to the Cousland child?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Eh, it's not like they'd be trying to take away food from the dog like Alistair did. It all depends on how they interact with him, I suppose. Dog loves being loved, and at this point he was breaking into the larder not for food but because there were giant rats that he cornered there. So he probably wouldn't have tried anything.

 

Probably because the rats would've tried something, and the Elves are easily scared if you tell them about the rats, so they probably would've fled for the other side of the castle.

 

But it, like many things, is probably a thing people could headcanon. Is their dog loyal to them only or would he listen to other people because he was trained very well, even if he's still only imprinted to the Cousland child?

Weren't the elves all petrified before you told them about the rats? For that matter, did the elves know that was why he was there, and that what they weren't trying to keep food away from him at that moment?

[Merle McClure II]

No, but they do seem to be more afraid of the rats then they were of the dog once they find out.

[Aren]

OP: I'm sure the Couslands would have fought against Loghain. In a world filled with realistically flawed characters and grey-and-grey morality, the Couslands stand out as a beacon of super-special-awesome perfect Mary Sues with squeaky clean clean records and pristine white morals. They were always magically on the right side in every skirmish in Ferelden history ever since there was a Ferelden (post-Calenhad), and remain the most popular and beloved EVERY generation for a thousand years...

With a family THAT PERFECT, do you think they would side with anyone but the side that stands for Truth, Justice, and the Ferelden way? The side that stands for saving people from the darkspawn instead of power-grabbing and in-fighting? The side that supports the crown so they will always appear as loyalists instead of a usurper so they appear as traitor-supporters?

Remember, the Couslands are perfect! (We'll just ignore how they treat elves, because theat doesn't contribute to how perfect they are...)


I think you're giving that dog way too much credit. While several characters over the game praise the Mabari for being fiercely loyal and intelligent, they also comment on how Mabari are hot-blooded and aggressive. Unless you are it's imprinted owner, it is likely to bite or scratch or take the arm off someone who tries to restrain it. Based on Nan and Ser Gilmore's dialogue, your own Mabari has a history of being naughty and breaking into the lardar. Ser Gilmore, Nan, and the elves make it clear that they need you to restrain your dog because it's not safe for them to do so. Yet Nan is willing to try to force some elves who have no authority over a dog to try to retrain it despite knowing they could lose an arm, since she won't try to restrain it herself. So the elves are stuck: they either have to risk their arms trying to restrain a potentially dangerous (to them) animal or sit there and take Nan's verbal abuse, with only their boss's child to get the dog.


That still doesn't reflect well on the Couslands though, since the game loves getting on its knees and giving them a ****** for being the most super-special-awesome-perfect-sparkling-loving family in Thedas history, yet they have the power to make the elves' lives better and choose not to. They fought on the right side of history for truth, justice, and the Ferelden way ever since there was a Ferelden, but they can't make conditions better for their alienage or tell their cook to treat her staff better.

yes this is why Brice deserve to be king, Fergus deserve to be king or Main warden if cousland.

They are the only light in this grey world the perfection, like a sort of "classical happy family"  they are so hmble that they have refused the throne.

I dont know about the elves because for what we know, maybe  this is only Nan's bheviour,  Iona tells another story.

[Xetykins]

That would be a definite and resounding no. It would be trying to mix oil and water. Bryce has too much self respect and down to earth to even turn down the crown once.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Bryce has too much self respect and down to earth to even turn down the crown once.

I believe that to be resoundingly not true.

[Xetykins]

I believe that to be resoundingly not true.

You mean hes got the same moral compass as loghain? Dang, i'm never rolling a cousland again.. till my nect pt that is@

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

You mean hes got the same moral compass as loghain? Dang, i'm never rolling a cousland again.. till my nect pt that is@

I don't believe that's what I said.

[Merle McClure II]

Xetykins ... Bryce had turned down the throne in the past, out of respect for Calian's father.

[Xetykins]

Xetykins ... Bryce had turned down the throne in the past, out of respect for Calian's father.

Thats the crown i was refering to :-)

[Merle McClure II]

Ok, then I'm confused, with Calian dead why wouldn't Bryce be willing to take the throne if it were offered to him a second time by the Banns?

 

And why would accepting the crown make him on par with Loghain?

[TEWR]

Ok, then I'm confused, with Calian dead why wouldn't Bryce be willing to take the throne if it were offered to him a second time by the Banns?

 

And why would accepting the crown make him on par with Loghain?

 

Bryce is an ardent royalist, not a traditionalist. Anora's the Queen and much beloved by the people (and many banns like her, just as many banns dislike her). I doubt he'd accept the crown with Anora still around.