I won't comment on the mage vs. Templar thing but direct people to my blog essay. http://unitedfederat...-age-mages.html
Short version: The Mages had it a lot better than most realized but the Templars probably could have reformed a few of the problems without opening the world to abominations. Anders, however, took that option away.
You a trekkie ? 
QAPLA!
all i know is that its a controversial procedureYes, lobotomys biggest issue is you tend to have very little initiative or emotional expression thereafter.
all i know is that its a controversial procedure
It's not so much controversial as outright discredited.
Fiona probably cured her taint because she needed to be a bigger Mary Sue than has ever existed before
fingers crossed she's the mage we can make tranquil
Fiona probably cured her taint because she needed to be a bigger Mary Sue than has ever existed before
fingers crossed she's the mage we can make tranquil
Well, she was cured of her Taint because otherwise she would have died of her calling by the time Alistair was an adult.
That's why it happened.
No other reason, I'm pretty sure.
Well, she was cured of her Taint because otherwise she would have died of her calling by the time Alistair was an adult.
That's why it happened.
No other reason, I'm pretty sure.
because they need her to be there because she's a worse writer pet than Liara
You a trekkie ?
Indeed, the battle shall be glorious!
because they need her to be there because she's a worse writer pet than Liara
I admit, the fondness for Fiona confuses me as she didn't make a huge impression on me like, say, Leliana.
I also have think Liara is like watching paint dry.
Except when she's crazy from doing her mission last or being insulting. "Must be a human thing."
Then she's funny.
Did I read it wrong or did she get cured after giving birth? Maybe it has to do with the Calenhad blood if that's the case.
Either way, she's got so much baggage, it'll clog a black hole.
Again , that is your opinion . I believe a stability build out of fear is a Lie .
That kind of stability I can do without . The offence here , is that if you want another option it is always shot down . No matter if you are right or wrong . You are always wrong .
I think the greatest fear of the Templar , is that without the Mages...they are nothing but gloriefied zealot who daily job is to watch over priestess praying to the maker . And that is boring , and they can't control them at all . Therefor , if the mage ceased to exist...the Templar existance will cease as well . Especially if in this new game , we close the fade for good....what they gonna hunt ? rabbit ?
Stability is stability, bought with lies or injustice its still stability. The alternative is anarchy, and anarchy in the DA universe looks less like V for Vendetta and more "blood mages slaughtering those they deign lesser"
as for the rest of that, speculation, speculations for everyone
speculation is strong with your worst outcome not every mage goes BM alot yeah but not all lol. Dont be so gloomyStability is stability, bought with lies or injustice its still stability. The alternative is anarchy, and anarchy in the DA universe looks less like V for Vendetta and more "blood mages slaughtering those they deign lesser" as for the rest of that, speculation, speculations for everyone
Again , that is your opinion . And having a ' Templar slaughtering those they deign being an abomination' i guess thats better in your book ? fine . But that is my opinion....and I'm sticking with it .
and more "blood mages slaughtering those they deign lesser"
Fiona probably cured her taint because she needed to be a bigger Mary Sue than has ever existed before
fingers crossed she's the mage we can make tranquil
Fingers crossed that the mage you can make Tranquil is voluntary.
Nope, If you are going to deconstruct a system that existed for a thousand years and basically state "when not if" my replies will be of the same length.
Countless generations lived and died in circles, only fourteen annulments were ever invoked and for the most part i'd assume the situation was fairly dire. The Circle was useful in blights, exalted marches and against the Qunari, they obtained status, wealth and privilege in increasing doses for those services.
You claim the circle couldn't lasted, always a matter of when rather then if, You work off this tired assumption that Kirkwall "showed the mages they could resist" my question to you would be: Why? They are protected, housed and well taken care of, to be honest i almost sort of wanted them to get freedom a while back just so they could see the "lives" they are missing out on.
Yeah, go from living like nobility to living in a shack harvesting wheat.
Also Tranquility isn't apt comparison to lobotomy.
Tranquils don't die from internal hemorrhaging caused by power tools cracking open a skull, they are alive, their minds are fine and they are no longer a threat to themselves or others, in fact they can leave the circle if they wish, they are free to do as they wish.
And yet on one of the few times a tranquil was temporarily cured, he described the experience as so horrifying he wanted to get killed rather than return to it. It is not an act of mercy. You are literally stripped of everything that makes you, you. Your hopes, your dreams, you're just a puppet when you are tranquil. An empty shell that was once a person. And this 'mercy' can be 'bestowed' upon you regardless of whether you want it or not.
Anyway, yes, countless generations lived and died in Circle towers. How many of those did so of their own choice? The Circle is a cage. And barely even a gilded one at that, given the constant presence of templar guards with the constant threat of death and lobotomisation if you slack off even once. Can't flee either, because they have the magical version of locator chips stored safely away in case you try (incidentally, phylacteries are a form of blood magic, so hurray for hypocrisy).
Mages achieving status and wealth? What will they use that status and wealth on locked inside that tower? Not much, I'd say. Can't go out to party, can't live in a luxurious villa, can't even take a nice vacation to the beaches. Wealth means nothing if all it means is that the same room you've lived in for fifty years has a nice pile of gold now. And status? They're still mages. Distrusted everywhere because the Chantry keeps interpreting "Magic exists to serve man, not rule over them" as "mages are the servants of non-mages."
People don't like to be imprisoned. People like being imprisoned for crimes they never commited even less. Even the most temperate, positive of mages we get to know over the course of the games admit that the Circle is a very oppressive system. Every mage that isn't as positive would rather be free. Is it any surprise then that those who hate being treated as criminals for the crime of being born chose to rebel against such an injustice when they were shown they could?
Had the Chantry dictated there should be more autonomy and freedom to the Circles and less paranoid watchdogs, things might have been different. As it is, the Chantry decided to put chains a tad too heavy on the mages and never fully investigated how much the constant lyrium abuse could screw up the templars.
The Chantry goofed. Big time. Took a while for the results to show, but a goof it still is.
Stability is stability, bought with lies or injustice its still stability. The alternative is anarchy, and anarchy in the DA universe looks less like V for Vendetta and more "blood mages slaughtering those they deign lesser"
as for the rest of that, speculation, speculations for everyone
But wouldn't by this logic the Qun be a far better option than the Chantry?
Again , that is your opinion . And having a ' Templar slaughtering those they deign being an abomination' i guess thats better in your book ? fine . But that is my opinion....and I'm sticking with it .
there is no subjective ground to cover in determining a mage's status as an abomination or not, there is no grey area.
They are possessed or they are not. Yes I would classify Wynne and DA2 Justice/Anders as possessions however these areas are different because they are possessed by spirits, not demons.
If you are going to argue that abominations should be left in peace to do their butcher's work, then I'm not sure what to say to that.
But wouldn't by this logic the Qun be a far better option than the Chantry?
No
I still value the ability to determine your own path and have things like "wants, desires, etc..." The Qun doesn't allow for such distractions from duty.
No . I,m not saying let an abomination walk around or go in a killing spree . But what I'm saying is : 1) let the Mage rules themself and 2) the whole system of locking someone out is an abomination in it self . The whole system build around the 'lets lock everyone in a box just in case 1 of them can be a monster' is a horrible coward notions in it self .
And yet on one of the few times a tranquil was temporarily cured, he described the experience as so horrifying he wanted to get killed rather than return to it. It is not an act of mercy. You are literally stripped of everything that makes you, you. Your hopes, your dreams, you're just a puppet when you are tranquil. An empty shell that was once a person. And this 'mercy' can be 'bestowed' upon you regardless of whether you want it or not.
Anyway, yes, countless generations lived and died in Circle towers. How many of those did so of their own choice? The Circle is a cage. And barely even a gilded one at that, given the constant presence of templar guards with the constant threat of death and lobotomisation if you slack off even once. Can't flee either, because they have the magical version of locator chips stored safely away in case you try (incidentally, phylacteries are a form of blood magic, so hurray for hypocrisy).
Mages achieving status and wealth? What will they use that status and wealth on locked inside that tower? Not much, I'd say. Can't go out to party, can't live in a luxurious villa, can't even take a nice vacation to the beaches. Wealth means nothing if all it means is that the same room you've lived in for fifty years has a nice pile of gold now. And status? They're still mages. Distrusted everywhere because the Chantry keeps interpreting "Magic exists to serve man, not rule over them" as "mages are the servants of non-mages."
People don't like to be imprisoned. People like being imprisoned for crimes they never commited even less. Even the most temperate, positive of mages we get to know over the course of the games admit that the Circle is a very oppressive system. Every mage that isn't as positive would rather be free. Is it any surprise then that those who hate being treated as criminals for the crime of being born chose to rebel against such an injustice when they were shown they could?
But wouldn't by this logic the Qun be a far better option than the Chantry?
I'm ready and willing to fight to the death for the right to be free, Keroko, but unfortunately history is not on either my side or the side of the freedom fighter. You ask what mages spend their money on? Well, in all likelihood, it's probably the vast riches we see on display in the Circles. Mages live lives of incadescent luxury which are undreamed of by your average peasant. They know neither starvation, cold, or disease.
Arl Eamon is one of the richest men in Fereldan and his home is pitiful compared to the Circle.
They might be purged in an Annulment but they won't be purged because Arl Howe says they should. Nobility get reduced to the status of other mages in the Circle but whether you are born the son of an elven prostitute like Zevran or the son of a Great Lord, you are all judged on your merits in the Circle. A son of a pig-farmer may rise to the status of Grand Enchanter and wield the ear of Empresses.
How many mages are willing to trade freedom for a life of comfort and security?
I'm sorry to say, if Finn is any indication, MOST mages.
Anders was one of the rare exceptions but we see how BETHANY reacts to Circle life. She finds it a place of acceptance and joy. Outside the Circle, Bethany must be a killer or a criminal because those are the only acceptable avenues for magic.
INSIDE the circle, she can be an elementary school teacher. It takes Meredith's near-genocide to convince Bethany the Circles are irredeemable.
Say what you will about the Chantry but they do not keep the Mages in poverty.
They do not keep the mages in squalor, even the elven ones.
The Circles are not segregated.
The Circles are also run by the Enchanters too.
The Rite of Tranquility is evil and irredeemable but the most horrible fact of it? The First Enchanter has to sign off on it.
Not in Kirkwall but Kirkwall is a pit.
I must have to take engilsh over but what in flames is a mary sue and why the hate lol
Mary Sue is a rather nebulous and over used term, but it can usually be reasonably applied to characters who get too much attention from the writers, they can have plot dependent powers, they are always "unique" in some regard, and they usually are not constrained by the lore
what if they are generally benign like wynnthere is no subjective ground to cover in determining a mage's status as an abomination or not, there is no grey area. They are possessed or they are not. Yes I would classify Wynne and DA2 Justice/Anders as possessions however these areas are different because they are possessed by spirits, not demons. If you are going to argue that abominations should be left in peace to do their butcher's work, then I'm not sure what to say to that.
No . I,m not saying let an abomination walk around or go in a killing spree . But what I'm saying is : 1) let the Mage rules themself and 2) the whole system of locking someone out is an abomination in it self . The whole system build around the 'lets lock everyone in a box just in case 1 of them can be a monster' is a horrible coward notions in it self .
Let them rule themselves? Like Tevinter? That went swimmingly
The Circles are also about protecting mages. Wynne would have been lynched if there hadn't been a Circle to provide a haven for her.
what if they are generally benign like wynn
I mentioned her and Justice/Anders
they are a different case than demonic possession
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