Tallis is pretty much Fiona in a nutshell isn't she. She's a member of a high restricted society who is a hot redheaded elf/ex-slave who doesn't play by the rules!
she has yet to join the grey wardens, give birth to a monarch, have a relationship with a monarch, defy the lore by curing the taint, and then start a rebellion
I hear just as many complaints lobbied against such charatcers as I do female characters
Regardless, you have to look at the list of Fiona' life and think "this is getting ridiculous"
All she's missing now is a pet mabari, or it might be a pet griffon. Or maybe I shouldn't give dumb ideas.
Damn, when you put it like that, Fiona really has been around the block lol.she has yet to join the grey wardens, give birth to a monarch, have a relationship with a monarch, defy the lore by curing the taint, and then start a rebellion
she has yet to join the grey wardens, give birth to a monarch, have a relationship with a monarch, defy the lore by curing the taint, and then start a rebellion
Give her a book or two!
Mary Stu is a female bit of terminology because it got started as a term from "romance fiction."
In fanfiction, which is predominately written by women, there's a subgenre of women who write thinly disguised inserts for themselves which romance canonical characters.
Edward Cullen, Captain Kirk, and so on.
But yes, Gary Stus exist but tend to be ignored as original fiction often gets a pass and "Competence Porn" has always existed. There's less gendering than most might think, though, since Mary Stu was created by women reading women's fiction.
There is a caveat that "Super-Competent Cool" characters can be written WELL, though. In which case they're beloved by the audience.
Batman, for example, is the best at everything. A millionaire playboy who gets all the wimmenz. James Bond. The spy who gets all the perks of being super-rich plus danger plus the wimmenz.
Plus, some characters are just COOL like Dante or Lelouch.
Or this guy.
Who is my Skyrim and Dragon Age character.
Except male characters can get away with a lot more than female characters. Harry Potter would be a Marty Stu/Gary Stu, but he's a guy, so...
Hermione's more of a sue than he is and doesn't get called out on it either. All three of them are pretty unlikable come to think of it. Ron's the only one who gets dumped on for it when they're all pretty equally crappy people. Ron's just honest about it.
Tallis is pretty much Fiona in a nutshell isn't she. She's a member of a high restricted society who is a hot redheaded elf/ex-slave who doesn't play by the rules!
lawl I don't think she's reached levels of curing the taint yet tho. So she's still redeemable. Just gotta be able to call her out on the Qun crap next game.
cause when dude sees a "crazy"chick its like "AMMA TAP DAT" lol jokes aside yeah i love fiona but she has much p-armorI agree. I can buy Sten being Arishok because by the end of the game, he was probably the toughest Qunari alive. However, I wasn't aware that being a Grey Warden qualified you for being the most powerful magi alive.Why didn't I buy her as Grand enchanter?Well, aside from not studying magic for decades of her life, Fiona is canonically....completely unlikable. IN UNIVERSE. How does she build a political coalition when her personality to Maric is, "SNARL"
Mary Stu is a female bit of terminology because it got started as a term from "romance fiction."
In fanfiction, which is predominately written by women, there's a subgenre of women who write thinly disguised inserts for themselves which romance canonical characters.Edward Cullen, Captain Kirk, and so on.
But yes, Gary Stus exist but tend to be ignored as original fiction often gets a pass and "Competence Porn" has always existed. There's less gendering than most might think, though, since Mary Stu was created by women reading women's fiction.
There is a caveat that "Super-Competent Cool" characters can be written WELL, though. In which case they're beloved by the audience.
Batman, for example, is the best at everything. A millionaire playboy who gets all the wimmenz. James Bond. The spy who gets all the perks of being super-rich plus danger plus the wimmenz.
Plus, some characters are just COOL like Dante or Lelouch.
Or this guy.
*snip*
Who is my Skyrim and Dragon Age character.
I don't mind it with Lelouch because at the end of the series it's pretty clear he hates himself 
and the ending...his sister's screams never fail to make me cry.
See hyper competence can be done well when it's the protagonist.
It's harder to do right with a companion character because alot of the times it starts edging on the PC's hyper competence and it gets weird. Too many chiefs in the kitchen as it were.
Here's how I measure Suedom.
"Does the character's competence and coolness factor break your suspension of disbelief?"
And
"Does it do so BADLY?"
Both have to qualify for Suedom.
I'd further add, "Does the coolness replace their character?"
We know Leliana likes pretty dresses and Morrigan loves mirrors as well as expensive things. We know Alistair loves dogs. We know Sten loves cookiees.
What do we know about Fiona but her tragic backstory, plot points, and ANGST?
Hermione's more of a sue than he is and doesn't get called out on it either. All three of them are pretty unlikable come to think of it. Ron's the only one who gets dumped on for it when they're all pretty equally crappy people. Ron's just honest about it.
Well, they all have their faults...which is why I don't think they qualify as Sues (that and the fact that they're not fanfiction characters.) But this isn't the Harry Potter thread, so I shouldn't have brought it up.
and ANGST?
SO MUCH ANGST!
How she got to be First Enchanter boggles the mind.
Here's how I measure Suedom.
"Does the character's competence and coolness factor break your suspension of disbelief?"
And
"Does it do so BADLY?"
Both have to qualify for Suedom.
I'd further add, "Does the coolness replace their character?"
We know Leliana likes pretty dresses and Morrigan loves mirrors as well as expensive things. We know Alistair loves dogs. We know Sten loves cookiees.
What do we know about Fiona but her tragic backstory, plot points, and ANGST?
Not enough, which is why we need to know more.
Here's how I measure Suedom.
"Does the character's competence and coolness factor break your suspension of disbelief?"
And
"Does it do so BADLY?"
Both have to qualify for Suedom.
I'd further add, "Does the coolness replace their character?"
We know Leliana likes pretty dresses and Morrigan loves mirrors as well as expensive things. We know Alistair loves dogs. We know Sten loves cookiees.
What do we know about Fiona but her tragic backstory, plot points, and ANGST?
Doesn't that make Fiona more of a figure or plot device (would those be the right terms?) than a character?
How she got to be First Enchanter boggles the mind.
I would have forgiven her if they'd bothered to explain how that one worked.
"She rejoined the Circle after an incident resulted in her Grey Warden status being revoked. Apprentices were drawn to her by her stories of the outside world, refusal to be intimidated by the Templars, and passionate love of injustice. She quickly became the First Enchanter of the Nevarra Circle and soon was winning more individuals over to her cause. The Grey Wardens defeating the Blight also gave her some prestige by proxy as the mystique of being a former member increased her prestige further."
But it just sort of assumes we'll accept it at face value.
Well, they all have their faults...which is why I don't think they qualify as Sues (that and the fact that they're not fanfiction characters.) But this isn't the Harry Potter thread, so I shouldn't have brought it up.
XD ah fair enough. My bad then.
Not enough, which is why we need to know more.
good gods no
the last thing she needs is more attention
probably all over the aboveDoesn't that make Fiona more of a figure or plot device (would those be the right terms?) than a character?
Doesn't that make Fiona more of a figure or plot device (would those be the right terms?) than a character?
She's a bit two-dimensional, I think.
Basically, I envision her as Asuka from Evangelion as an Elf Wizard.
(Which I suppose would make her the love interest from Fate-Stay Night but that's beside the point)
"She's angry and hates Maric, but hot, so he loves her."
"Now I'm suddenly in charge."
It's like the universe of Dragon Age revolves around Alistair's family (or the Amells if the Trevalyns are related to them).
good gods no
the last thing she needs is more attention
She needs to be beheaded and forgotten about.
No
I still value the ability to determine your own path and have things like "wants, desires, etc..." The Qun doesn't allow for such distractions from duty.
Nor do mages have that ability under the Chantry. Born a mage? Whelp, to the tower you go.
It's just that the Chantry limits their Qun-like practices to mages.
I'm ready and willing to fight to the death for the right to be free, Keroko, but unfortunately history is not on either my side or the side of the freedom fighter. You ask what mages spend their money on? Well, in all likelihood, it's probably the vast riches we see on display in the Circles. Mages live lives of incadescent luxury which are undreamed of by your average peasant. They know neither starvation, cold, or disease.
Arl Eamon is one of the richest men in Fereldan and his home is pitiful compared to the Circle.
They might be purged in an Annulment but they won't be purged because Arl Howe says they should. Nobility get reduced to the status of other mages in the Circle but whether you are born the son of an elven prostitute like Zevran or the son of a Great Lord, you are all judged on your merits in the Circle. A son of a pig-farmer may rise to the status of Grand Enchanter and wield the ear of Empresses.
How many mages are willing to trade freedom for a life of comfort and security?
I'm sorry to say, if Finn is any indication, MOST mages.
Anders was one of the rare exceptions but we see how BETHANY reacts to Circle life. She finds it a place of acceptance and joy. Outside the Circle, Bethany must be a killer or a criminal because those are the only acceptable avenues for magic.
INSIDE the circle, she can be an elementary school teacher. It takes Meredith's near-genocide to convince Bethany the Circles are irredeemable.
Say what you will about the Chantry but they do not keep the Mages in poverty.
They do not keep the mages in squalor, even the elven ones.
The Circles are not segregated.
The Circles are also run by the Enchanters too.
The Rite of Tranquility is evil and irredeemable but the most horrible fact of it? The First Enchanter has to sign off on it.
Not in Kirkwall but Kirkwall is a pit.
I'd like to note that the reason mages are criminals outside the Circle is also because of the Chantry. When being imprisoned for life seems like the best solution ever is because the Chantry putting you there ensured that any alternative is worse, that's hardly a point in the Chantry's favour.
But yes, mages can make their rooms very luxurious. So they can gild their cages. Doesn't change that it's still a gilded cage though. One with a sword of Damocles dangling overhead. And given the many, many amounts of apostates you encounter over the course of the dragon age games, even though outside the circle they are treated as criminals and how in both games there were plenty of mages geared up for a rebellion inside said circles and that the mage rebellions... y'know, actually happened rather than fizzle out, I am not sure Finn is a good indication of how most mages look at their lives in the Circle.
let's see
city elf born in an alienage, then enslaved after she was orphaned, she was abused, killed her abuser, joined the Circle, then the Grey Wardens, had adventured with King Meric and is Alistair's mother, cured herself of the taint, went back to the Circle, became Grand Enchanter, led the freedom movement, seperated the Circles from the Chantry
I got to "Alistai's mother" before I threw up my hands.
Having made the mistake myself on several occasions, characters being ham-fisted into having deep personal connections to established characters is a road to terrible writing.
headcanon says yes lolShe's a bit two-dimensional, I think.Basically, I envision her as Asuka from Evangelion as an Elf Wizard. (Which I suppose would make her the love interest from Fate-Stay Night but that's beside the point) "She's angry and hates Maric, but hot, so he loves her.""Now I'm suddenly in charge."It's like the universe of Dragon Age revolves around Alistair's family (or the Amells if the Trevalyns are related to them).
I'd like to note that the reason mages are criminals outside the Circle is also because of the Chantry. When being imprisoned for life seems like the best solution ever is because the Chantry putting you there ensured that any alternative is worse, that's hardly a point in the Chantry's favour.
The important thing to remember is the Chantry wants mages alive and loyal to the Chantry.
The common man in Thedas wants wizards dead and murdered.
Which is the biggest problem with Mage freedom.
Don't forget about her orlesian accent.
Don't forget about her orlesian accent.
Bleh, She will just butcher it i know.
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