589 réponses à ce sujet

[Keroko]

Mages still have opportunities (greater ones most likely) for advancement and ambition, they can have relationships, etc...  You can't compare the Chantry's treatment of mages to the Qun's

 

Half-relationships. A mage can't raise his or her own children, and your career choices are scholar, healer mage, combat mage or buffbot. Aside from scholar (for which the word 'broad' is an understatement), not exactly the widest array of career opportunities.

 

 

It was all smoke and mirrors apparently.

 

Why bother going through all those theatrics I don't understand.

 

Retcons.

 

It's pointless changes in canon for no other reason than to make the character that much more special that separate characters from mary sues.

[LOLandStuff]

Well considering she handed him to Eamon and that witch Isolde if I was Alistair and met her I just might punch her in the face.

 

 

And then she'd go: You think you had it hard? I was an orphan living in the slums, bought as a slave and abused by a human lord...and bla bla bla, persecuted mage...etc etc. Don't you compare your life with mine, young man."

 

And then Alistair will feel bad...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Curing the taint always struck me as incredibly stupid but she was basically cured by the Architect right? If anyone would know how it is him.

[Steelcan]

And then she'd go: You think you had it hard? I was an orphan living in the slums, bought as a slave and abused by a human lord...and bla bla bla, persecuted mage...etc etc. Don't you compare your life with mine, young man."

 

And then Alistair will feel bad...

then hopefully he can bitchsmack her

[Ryzaki]

And then she'd go: You think you had it hard? I was an orphan living in the slums, bought as a slave and abused by a human lord...and bla bla bla, persecuted mage...etc etc. Don't you compare your life with mine, young man."

 

And then Alistair will feel bad...

 

Oh lawd. I think my warden might just set her on fire for that one.

 

Hopefully hardened Alistair won't give a damn. I don't care if nonhardened feels bad.

 

 

Retcons.

 

It's pointless changes in canon for no other reason than to make the character that much more special that separate characters from mary sues.

 

XD

 

So true.

[Dusksworn]

Retcons.

 

It's pointless changes in canon for no other reason than to make the character that much more special that separate characters from mary sues.

Going to have to agree with this part here.

 

A Mary Sue is defined by warping the story around them, typically in ways that don't make sense with things that have been previously established.

 

I mean. Curing the Taint? HOW? Just...

 

What?

[Ryzaki]

Curing the taint always struck me as incredibly stupid but she was basically cured by the Architect right? If anyone would know how it is him.

 

If he's capable of that why on earth wouldn't he offer that to my warden in exchange for sparing him? Surely that'd be a better deal that the whole "lol I'll help you kill someone you're perfectly capable of killing alone." crap. 

 

My warden actually would've spared him in that scenario.

[X Equestris]

 
Retcons.
 
It's pointless changes in canon for no other reason than to make the character that much more special that separate characters from mary sues.

It's not a retcon, because The Calling was published before Origins ever came out.

[Dusksworn]

If he's capable of that why on earth wouldn't he offer that to my warden in exchange for sparing him? Surely that'd be a better deal that the whole "lol I'll help you kill someone you're perfectly capable of killing alone." crap. 

 

My warden actually would've spared him in that scenario.

Didn't the Architect cure her entirely on accident?

[Ryzaki]

Didn't the Architect cure her entirely on accident?

 

So she gets a magical accidental cure for the taint? That can't be mimicked?

 

Sue status only growing stronger...

[raging_monkey]

After reading the def on mary sue and offshoots.
Wouldnt our pc's be stu/sues to some extent

[Ryzaki]

After reading the def on mary sue and offshoots.
Wouldnt our pc's be stu/sues to some extent

 

Of course but they're video game protagonists. It's kind of expected they be sueish. Especially since we can modify their personalities. Alot of attempts to lessen this usually lead to plot dumb and idiot ball holding.

[Dusksworn]

After reading the def on mary sue and offshoots.
Wouldnt our pc's be stu/sues to some extent

To a certain extent, very much so.

 

But being a Mary Sue is about more than just being special and awesome.

 

It's a certain manner of being special and awesome that doesn't really fit with everything.

[Keroko]

It's not a retcon, because The Calling was published before Origins ever came out.

 

Point taken.

 

In that case, terrible communication and all around lazyness.

 

On the bright side: It also means that Origins did the retconning here and that this character is no longer Alistair's mother.

[raging_monkey]

To a certain extent, very much so. But being a Mary Sue is about more than just being special and awesome. It's a certain manner of being special and awesome that doesn't really fit with everything.

from what ive seen of fiona the only thing that iffed me was the asunder issue. And hawke kinda has this too defying all odds having family in high places.. just a thought

[Ryzaki]

It's not a retcon, because The Calling was published before Origins ever came out.

 

 It was possible for Maric to have slept with two different women wasn't it?

[Steelcan]

 It was possible for Maric to have slept with two different women wasn't it?

she wasn't confirmed to be his mother until recently

[AresKeith]

 It was possible for Maric to have slept with two different women wasn't it?

 

For all we know the thing with the maid did happen

[Ryzaki]

she wasn't confirmed to be his mother until recently

 

I know I remember rumors about a belief about a third son of Maric. (Which I thought would've been an interesting plot device but apparently they defaulted that to someone who could be dead (Alistair) instead.) Bleh. 

[Ryzaki]

For all we know the thing with the maid did happen

 

So Alistair has a younger brother running around? That'd be interesting.  Still would've rather Fiona be the parent of that child instead of Alistair though.

[raging_monkey]

So from what i gather x amount of fans are upset the most fiona's suedom cause she's alistairs mother. Personally i dont mind his personal quest was giant cover up easliy dismissed. Still not understand the dislike of fiona. * polite and playful tone used*

[LOLandStuff]

Or maybe the maid and the baby died during childbirth and just thought it would be convenient if Alistair was her son just so he could be watched. It's a more believable story than having someone leave a baby at your doorsteps.

[Ryzaki]

So from what i gather x amount of fans are upset the most fiona's suedom cause she's alistairs mother. Personally i dont mind his personal quest was giant cover up easliy dismissed. Still not understand the dislike of fiona. * polite and playful tone used*

 

My line is officially taint being cured. nope. My tolerance level snapped at that.

 

If there's an option to kill her I'm taking it. Cause seriously screw. that.

[Dean_the_Young]

I promise I will reserve my judgement on "conversion of non-Andrastians by the sword" until we know for sure what happened in the Dales and what consequences the Rivaini Chantry faced from their superiors after the purges. As for "conversion of No True Andrastians", I suppose Tevinter will have a different opinion.

 

What would those exact circumstances of the aftermath matter? The Chantry didn't start those wars, which would be a key aspect of-

 

'The Chantry has never initiated a religious war against non-Andrastians for the purpose of conversion.'

 

By the way, finally managed to find a timeline about Tevinter's turn to magocracy (remember what we talked about if it was quickly or not?). Apart from WoT, the clue was the codex entry on the Imperial Chantry.

-3:87: The Divine asks the Imperial Chantry to conform to the Orlesian version of the Chant. Tevinter refuses. Joyous II declares the entire Tevinter clergy heretics. The Imperial Chantry answers by electing its own Divine, magister Valhail I.

-3:99. The White Divine dies. In Tevinter there's celebration. The new White Divine calls the new age "Black" to remind everyone of the false Divine.

-4.40: Start of the first of four Exalted Marches against Tevinter.

-5:10: The last Exalted March against Tevinter ends in retreat for Orlais.

-6:32-7:84: Qunari Wars.

-7:34: The election of Nomaran as Archon directly from the ranks of the enchanters marks the beginning of the Circle ruling Tevinter politics again. He dispenses the old rules forbidding mages from taking part in politics.

-8:11: By this year, the mages rule openly in Tevinter again. The Grand Enchanter always holds the title of Divine.

 

 

Good find. I can't PM it to myself for future reference, so could I ask you to do so? (Also, do you have the dates of the post-Andraste Tevinter incursions?)

 

Though I will point out, for your benefit for future arguments, there was over a fifty year schism between the Black Divine's breakaway and the start of the Exalted Marches. A sudden, reactionary mobilization to religious schism it was not, unless you're willing to overlook a generation or two of separation. If the Chantry was willing to wait nearly half of the age that bears its name before attacking, that's not a particularly argument of the primary motivations being to squash religious dissent.
 

 

Lambert was right about the timeline.

 

Not as much as you might think- from that timeline alone you can already get a strong implication of covert (rather than overt) mage political influence well before the doing away of the pretenses in 7:34. You could even peg Magister influence as far back as nearly four centuries before the present, at the religious schism, though obviously the magister power networks would have to been restructured well before then to actually make such an attempt a success.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't mind it with Lelouch because at the end of the series it's pretty clear he hates himself and the ending...his sister's screams never fail to make me cry.

 

See hyper competence can be done well when it's the protagonist.

 

It's harder to do right with a companion character because alot of the times it starts edging on the PC's hyper competence  and it gets weird. Too many chiefs in the kitchen as it were.

 

Lelouch is actually a great example of an overpowered character who is far from the idealization and crowd-loving of a typical Mary Sue. Between his own hypocrisy of his ideology and actions (basically being the Amazing Great Man of History figure that he denounces and which is the cornerstone of Britannia, plus that whole opposing coercion and lack of consent versus that geass thing), some non-triveal character flaws (from physical ability to, well, his complex and ego about his friends and the whole sister-complex rationalization), and a good many kick the dog moments to boot. Even with his plot coupon power, he gets an impressive amount of character development (and an excellent foil in his frenemy Suzaku in a yin-yang sort of relationship) that he's about as far from a charicature as you can get.