589 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

If he's capable of that why on earth wouldn't he offer that to my warden in exchange for sparing him? Surely that'd be a better deal that the whole "lol I'll help you kill someone you're perfectly capable of killing alone." crap. 

 

My warden actually would've spared him in that scenario.

 

The Architect could have cured you if you'd asked. But, well, the Architect wouldn't THINK you'd want to be cured of the Taint because he's a Darkspawn.

They don't think like Mundanes.

 

Ironic.

Avernus didn't want to cure the Taint and might have been able to. The Taint allowed him to live an extra-century because he knew how to delay his Calling and pump up the rest of his body.

It's why he looks like Yoda but is alive at 200.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The "Mages couldn't rule before 7:34 Storm thing" comes from a codex entry on the Black Chantry in the first game, but it makes no sense at all with the rest of the timeline and the rest of that codex is filled with what appears to be contradictory nonsense as well. The voice of the author says he's from the White Chantry but the entry is later sourced by a Revered Father from a Tevinter city. I feel it should be disregarded. World of Thedas says that Atlus became the leaders of the Imperium again within a few generations of Hesserion and that until the Black Age, the Archon was elected  directly from the magisters.

[Willowhugger]

I get things were always very "lax" in the Tevinter Circles until the Black Divine was a man and a wizard.

 

That was the proverbial straw.

Except it wasn't a straw so much as cutting the camel in half.

[Keroko]

What would those exact circumstances of the aftermath matter? The Chantry didn't start those wars, which would be a key aspect of-
 
'The Chantry has never initiated a religious war against non-Andrastians for the purpose of conversion.'
 
Good find. I can't PM it to myself for future reference, so could I ask you to do so? (Also, do you have the dates of the post-Andraste Tevinter incursions?)
 
Though I will point out, for your benefit for future arguments, there was over a fifty year schism between the Black Divine's breakaway and the start of the Exalted Marches. A sudden, reactionary mobilization to religious schism it was not, unless you're willing to overlook a generation or two of separation. If the Chantry was willing to wait nearly half of the age that bears its name before attacking, that's not a particularly argument of the primary motivations being to squash religious dissent.

 

The Imperial Chantry codex entry confirms that the Exalted Marches against Tevinter were held to dislodge the religious rebels.

[Dean_the_Young]

on top of being a former slave who was abused then killed her abuser

 

Oh, it's not that she killed her abuser that gets me- it's that she killed her abuser without consequence.

 

Fiona's greatest sin as a character isn't in the things she tries and does, it's that she continually gets away with offenses that generally have immediate death sentences from people and groups with well established willingness (and even reputations) for promptly killing defiant people for much less. A tyrannical slave-society that wouldn't kill a rebellious slave, a secretive military organization with a demonstrated willingness to kill to protect their secrets that wouldn't chase down someone who knew their secrets, an oppressive and generally considered uncontrolled police state that wouldn't remove an openly seditious leader...
 

About the only major arc I don't take any real issue with was the one about being the mother to a bastard prince- primarily because that was already established as a secret that bodies weren't dying for.

[bazzag]

Well, they seem to think your the Herald, so i assume thats what you are.

 

Whether you choose to be is another question.

 

Anyway i'd imagine you would be known by 3 things(mostly), Herald, Inquisitor, and your Races surname

[Ryzaki]

Lelouch is actually a great example of an overpowered character who is far from the idealization and crowd-loving of a typical Mary Sue. Between his own hypocrisy of his ideology and actions (basically being the Amazing Great Man of History figure that he denounces and which is the cornerstone of Britannia, plus that whole opposing coercion and lack of consent versus that geass thing), some non-triveal character flaws (from physical ability to, well, his complex and ego about his friends and the whole sister-complex rationalization), and a good many kick the dog moments to boot. Even with his plot coupon power, he gets an impressive amount of character development (and an excellent foil in his frenemy Suzaku in a yin-yang sort of relationship) that he's about as far from a charicature as you can get.

 

Oh man that moment when Shirley in heels outran him. I lost it XD  But yes this is pretty much why lelouch was a great character despite the whole chessmaster thing with his power :3

 

The Architect could have cured you if you'd asked. But, well, the Architect wouldn't THINK you'd want to be cured of the Taint because he's a Darkspawn.

They don't think like Mundanes.

 

Ironic.

Avernus didn't want to cure the Taint and might have been able to. The Taint allowed him to live an extra-century because he knew how to delay his Calling and pump up the rest of his body.

It's why he looks like Yoda but is alive at 200.

 

I could go with that. Shame he didn't at least mention it as support of him being able to control the taint.

 

Ah point. I haven't played WK in a while.

 

lol
 

[Willowhugger]

Suedom is highly subjective. In a very real sense, you can't be a Gary Stu or Mary Stu if you like the character because that is your opinion. The Jack Reacher novels, for example, are an example of a super-intelligent super-physically powerful man who possesses every skill imaginable. Basically, Batman, and he always succeeds because he's just that awesome.

And people love them because they're great fun to read.

 

So I don't dislike Fiona because she's got Sue-ish qualities. I dislike her because I don't think she's a well-developed character, I don't understand how she got from Point A to Point Z, and I also think she makes the story of Alistair worse.

 

Because he's more interesting as a maid's child, IMHO.

 

That's my .02.

 

Shouldn't this be the Fiona thread by now?

:-)

[Dean_the_Young]

The Imperial Chantry codex entry confirms that the Exalted Marches against Tevinter were held to dislodge the religious rebels.

 

The Imperial Chantry codex entry is a Chantry lesson written centuries after the schism that doesn't even reference the start of the Exalted Marches, let alone the political context of the age that would have triggered it.

 

Color me less than impressed on the objectivity and detail of an official history piece that doesn't even reference a fifty year gap between the rise to power of the rebels and the first March. I don't put much faith in the nuance of the Dalish codex on the fall of the Dales when it doesn't even mention the Exalted Marches by name or the events of the Red Crossing, and I won't subscribe total objectivity to a Chantry document that can't reference similar key facts.

[raging_monkey]

Suedom is highly subjective. In a very real sense, you can't be a Gary Stu or Mary Stu if you like the character because that is your opinion. The Jack Reacher novels, for example, are an example of a super-intelligent super-physically powerful man who possesses every skill imaginable. Basically, Batman, and he always succeeds because he's just that awesome.And people love them because they're great fun to read. So I don't dislike Fiona because she's got Sue-ish qualities. I dislike her because I don't think she's a well-developed character, I don't understand how she got from Point A to Point Z, and I also think she makes the story of Alistair worse. Because he's more interesting as a maid's child, IMHO. That's my .02. Shouldn't this be the Fiona thread by now?:-)

firat talked of titles then dalish bull and then magi bull then somehow we got to fiona

[Willowhugger]

firat talked of titles then dalish bull and then magi bull then somehow we got to fiona

 

Let's make a Fiona thread because this is interesting.

;-)

[raging_monkey]

Let's make a Fiona thread because this is interesting.;-)

do i open it or you gonna start it.

[Willowhugger]

http://forum.bioware...-mother/page-22

[Keroko]

The Imperial Chantry codex entry is a Chantry lesson written centuries after the schism that doesn't even reference the start of the Exalted Marches, let alone the political context of the age that would have triggered it.

 

Color me less than impressed on the objectivity and detail of an official history piece that doesn't even reference a fifty year gap between the rise to power of the rebels and the first March. I don't put much faith in the nuance of the Dalish codex on the fall of the Dales when it doesn't even mention the Exalted Marches by name or the events of the Red Crossing, and I won't subscribe total objectivity to a Chantry document that can't reference similar key facts.

 

It's interesting that almost every codex entry that has been presented in this thread so far that depicts the Chantry in a negative light is declared subjective and inaccurate, but every entry that is pro-Chantry is accepted without question. Despite the Chantry having rewritten history in their favour several times already.

[raging_monkey]

It's interesting that almost every codex entry that has been presented in this thread so far that depicts the Chantry in a negative light is declared subjective and inaccurate, but every entry that is pro-Chantry is accepted without question. Despite the Chantry having rewritten history in their favour several times already.

people find the chantry a better religion than the others so censorship among fans is common

[Silfren]

If he's capable of that why on earth wouldn't he offer that to my warden in exchange for sparing him? Surely that'd be a better deal that the whole "lol I'll help you kill someone you're perfectly capable of killing alone." crap. 

 

My warden actually would've spared him in that scenario.

 

Unless there's a new bit of lore out, it's never explained how Fiona was cured, just hinted that it had something to do with that...thing...that totally escapes my mind at the moment.  Never had anything at all to do with the Architect.

[Ryzaki]

Unless there's a new bit of lore out, it's never explained how Fiona was cured, just hinted that it had something to do with that...thing...that totally escapes my mind at the moment.  Never had anything at all to do with the Architect.

 

Oooh alright. I was getting fairly confused XD

[Willowhugger]

It's interesting that almost every codex entry that has been presented in this thread so far that depicts the Chantry in a negative light is declared subjective and inaccurate, but every entry that is pro-Chantry is accepted without question. Despite the Chantry having rewritten history in their favour several times already.

 

I think the Chantry would be BORING if you removed the genocides, purges, and intolerance.

It's not JUST that.

 

It's also pleasant old ladies in churches plus singing.

 

These two girls sold me on the Chantry being awesome.

 

[Silfren]

I think the Chantry would be BORING if you removed the genocides, purges, and intolerance.

It's not JUST that.

 

It's also pleasant old ladies in churches plus singing.

 

These two girls sold me on the Chantry being awesome.

 

 

See, I couldn't ever listen to her unless they served food during the service.  Old broad would have me salivating for ham and breaded sinners.

[Willowhugger]

See, I couldn't ever listen to her unless they served food during the service.  Old broad would have me salivating for ham and breaded sinners.

 

Priestess: There is no bacon in the chant.

Theohild: Well why not!

[Keroko]

I think the Chantry would be BORING if you removed the genocides, purges, and intolerance.

It's not JUST that.

 

It's also pleasant old ladies in churches plus singing.

 

These two girls sold me on the Chantry being awesome.

 

 

Food merchants in Orzammar would probably set up shop next to the Chantry when those two visit.

[Dusksworn]

Unless there's a new bit of lore out, it's never explained how Fiona was cured, just hinted that it had something to do with that...thing...that totally escapes my mind at the moment.  Never had anything at all to do with the Architect.

It had to do with a magic item designed partly by the Architect, with the power to speed up the Taint, and given to Fiona by the First Enchanter of that time period.

 

Somehow she was cured after taking it off or something?

[Silfren]

It had to do with a magic item designed partly by the Architect, with the power to speed up the Taint, and given to Fiona by the First Enchanter of that time period.

 

Somehow she was cured after taking it off or something?

 

Something like that.  It was left, as I recall, with people being fairly positive that Fiona was no longer tainted but being completely boggled as to why.  I've always had mixed feelings on it.  It's a perfectly plausible outcome for people to not be able to explain why the taint would have gone *poof* and be hellbent on studying the matter to try to figure out why--and still not ever be able to figure it out.  But to have this rather compelling plot point *about* the taint and all its implications...only to give Fiona a get-out-of-the-Calling-free card, well. I'm not opposed to that kind of a plot twist, but I think it was handled rather badly.  

[Reaverwind]

See, I couldn't ever listen to her unless they served food during the service.  Old broad would have me salivating for ham and breaded sinners.

 

I hear breaded sinners are quite tasty.

[Silfren]

I hear breaded sinners are quite tasty.

 

But of course they would have to be!  Everything's tasty once it's breaded...of course, that's because why would you bread something if not to deep-fry it, and EVERYTHING tastes good deep fried!