589 réponses à ce sujet

[Puppy Love]

the us's stand your ground law is a testament to that statement

 

Not sure if you're defending or arguing my statement there....
 

[raging_monkey]

It's not an issue of being messy, it's a matter of certain people intentionally disregarding information from a contrasting historical account because it paints the Chantry in a bad light.

like i said elves are seen as a lesser. Sopeople may disregard some statments

[raging_monkey]

Not sure if you're defending or arguing my statement there....

defending your statement to which i agree

[LobselVith8]

like i said elves are seen as a lesser. Sopeople may disregard some statments

 

Which makes any genuine discussion moot when certain people disregard that there are two conflicting historical accounts, to the point of blatantly omitting or distorting information as a means of vilifying the Dalish no matter which historical account one addresses. I don't see why those people can't simply accept that there are two historical accounts that claim the other is responsible.

[john-in-france]

Sigh... read the wiki on the inquisitor.

 

It says that you may use the title Herald of Andraste or Your Eminence.

[Puppy Love]

defending your statement to which i agree

Ahh ok, thanks then.

 

I find it scary how much self defense laws fluctuate from place to place myself.  You could be doing what seems reasonable self defense in one state different from the one you grew up in in which it was acceptable, and bam you're put away for murder.

 

In some states, if you have a gun and you're attacker has a knife, you're potentially better off letting them rape you then shooting them.  Is crazy how much these laws fluctuate and how bad some of them are.

 

Then again, there are states where if you cut through someones yard and they shoot you, it's all good, you trespassed, which is likewise crazy.

 

Either way know your states self defense and trespassing laws.  It could be the difference between saving your life, and/or imprisonment.

[raging_monkey]

Which makes any genuine discussion moot when certain people disregard that there are two conflicting historical accounts, to the point of blatantly omitting or distorting information as a means of vilifying the Dalish no matter which historical account one addresses. I don't see why those people can't simply accept that there are two historical accounts that claim the other is responsible.

well lets think of it like this my friend. Denial always leaves a villain

[JasonPogo]

Ahh ok, thanks then.

 

I find it scary how much self defense laws fluctuate from place to place myself.  You could be doing what seems reasonable self defense in one state different from the one you grew up in in which it was acceptable, and bam you're put away for murder.

 

In some states, if you have a gun and you're attacker has a knife, you're potentially better off letting them rape you then shooting them.  Is crazy how much these laws fluctuate and how bad some of them are.

 

Then again, there are states where if you cut through someones yard and they shoot you, it's all good, you trespassed, which is likewise crazy.

 

Either way know your states self defense and trespassing laws.  It could be the difference between saving your life, and/or imprisonment.

 

Also if someone dose break into your home and you shoot them DON'T let them get off your property.  If they are on your property it is self defense.  If they get off your property it is attempted murder.  At least that is how it is in New Jersey.

[introverted_assassin]

There's a wealth of knowledge in this thread.

But...there doesn't seem to be an inherent understanding of colonization and it's effects. I do not wish to be that girl who gets too deep into this but I completely understand why an elf would not wish to be the Herald of Andraste. Eh...I may expound.

[raging_monkey]

Ahh ok, thanks then. I find it scary how much self defense laws fluctuate from place to place myself.  You could be doing what seems reasonable self defense in one state different from the one you grew up in in which it was acceptable, and bam you're put away for murder. In some states, if you have a gun and you're attacker has a knife, you're potentially better off letting them rape you then shooting them.  Is crazy how much these laws fluctuate and how bad some of them are.  Then again, there are states where if you cut through someones yard and they shoot you, it's all good, you trespassed, which is likewise crazy. Either way know your states self defense and trespassing laws.  It could be the difference between saving your life, and/or imprisonment.

i find it humourous personally we U.S. citizens cant pick a standard law. We fight social injustice left and right but maker help us if we agree on gun control lol

[raging_monkey]

There's a wealth of knowledge in this thread.But...there doesn't seem to be an inherent understanding of colonization and it's effects. I do not wish to be that girl who gets too deep into this but I completely understand why an elf would not wish to be the Herald of Andraste. Eh...I may expound.

please do love hearing about laws and similar subjects

[Medhia_Nox]

Exactly how vast was the 8,400 year old elven empire that a few human colonials overthrew?   I was under the impression it covered all of Thedas.

[Seboist]

like i said elves are seen as a lesser. Sopeople may disregard some statments

 

How's this not a fact? That a full blown human is the result of a human and an elf mating shows that they're a lesser species.

[introverted_assassin]

Okay. Let met preface this by saying I am a black women. Bound by everything that entails. This is the perspective I am coming from. Not codex entries. Not laws. The mood of the people who've had to deal with the stigma attached to simply existing.

When I think of my warden city elf, she didn't hate Andraste. She understood the significance of what Andraste did but it didn't click until after the Sacred Ashes quest. So she respects her. However, she does get that Andraste is the face of the chantry...and THAT organization has completely alienated her people...even so far as to call the areas they are housed in Alienages. They "othered" the elves. Let me tell you.. even with having respect for history, it is no bandaid to the present situation.

You're viewed as an outcast simply because of whatever choices your Ancestors made...if they did make them because you're not even sure that any info you got is true. You're cut from your history and culture because it was destroyed. That's a justifiable reason to not want anything at all to do with the Chantry. I don't think Andraste is the issue...she became the "face" of the Chantry and therein lies the conflict.

I'll try to explain this better if questions are asked. And i'll try to engage others without an emotional response because it is tricky for me and I hope people understand why.

[Keroko]

Citation needed.

Llomerynn accords codex entry, when the people living in the North of Rivainn refused to leave the homes they grew up in and refused to denounce the Qun they had converted to and convert back to the Maker, the Rivainn Chantry purged the North by sword and buried everyone in mass graves.

Also every mage that refuses to follow the will of the Chantry.

[raging_monkey]

How's this not a fact? That a full blown human is the result of a human and an elf mating shows that they're a lesser species.

i beileve gaider said said that elves genes are adaptive. I am no geneist and only have a high school understanding on the subject so i wont go into detail. But to answer your post i was just giving a possible reason why lob was having issues with being rebuked for providing lore evidence that apparently contridicted with chantry evidence.

[raging_monkey]

Okay. Let met preface this by saying I am a black women. Bound by everything that entails. This is the perspective I am coming from. Not codex entries. Not laws. The mood of the people who've had to deal with the stigma attached to simply existing.When I think of my warden city elf, she didn't hate Andraste. She understood the significance of what Andraste did but it didn't click until after the Sacred Ashes quest. So she respects her. However, she does get that Andraste is the face of the chantry...and THAT organization has completely alienated her people...even so far as to call the areas they are housed in Alienages. They "othered" the elves. Let me tell you.. even with having respect for history, it is no bandaid to the present situation.You're viewed as an outcast simply because of whatever choices your Ancestors made...if they did make them because you're not even sure that any info you got is true. You're cut from your history and culture because it was destroyed. That's a justifiable reason to not want anything at all to do with the Chantry. I don't think Andraste is the issue...she became the "face" of the Chantry and therein lies the conflict.I'll try to explain this better if questions are asked. And i'll try to engage others without an emotional response because it is tricky for me and I hope people understand why.

as black male i often felt the same RL. It strikes me as odd on how the chantry(particularly the black chantry) appropiates elven artititechure and some elven magic then treats them as sub-human

[Silfren]

 

I personaly wouldn't mind the Title as such , it just.....the fact that the chantry dropped Andraste as a mere sidekick (when she is the one who did everything) and glorified the maker in her stead...that ****** me off . So I feel like , even if I wanted to be Andraste champion (Maybe as an elf for her action toward my peoples for exemple)...I cant help but feel like I be waving the chantry flag . (sigh) Wish I could have Andraste without the chantry connotation that go with it . 

 

I don't really understand what your issue is here.  Andraste was the one promoting worship of the Maker; it isn't as though she was pushing herself as a deity and the Chantry "dropped" her to worship the Maker instead.  Her position as the Maker's prophet within the world was her role all along.  She was never meant to be the central figure in Chantry worship...and it isn't exactly as though her role is terribly diminished.  She has a rather high standing in Chantry doctrine.  

[Br3admax]

as black male i often felt the same RL. It strikes me as odd on how the chantry(particularly the black chantry) appropiates elven artititechure and some elven magic then treats them as sub-human

There's no evidence of this being true anywhere. Tevinter treats everyone equally awful. 

[Br3admax]

Llomerynn accords codex entry, when the people living in the North of Rivainn refused to leave the homes they grew up in and refused to denounce the Qun they had converted to and convert back to the Maker, the Rivainn Chantry purged the North by sword and buried everyone in mass graves.

Also every mage that refuses to follow the will of the Chantry.

Rivain itself did that, not the Chantry. That's like saying the Chantry supported Meredith going psycho just because Meredith was a member of the Chantry. 

[Wynnen]

I hope we don't have to be the herald if we don't want to. I play many ways but some are going to be anti chantry and WILL dislike the idea largely. Also considering how religious way being called herald is I doubt Bioware would go that road. In earlier games the title was not something we could affect but neither was it religious based.

 

As far as how elves are treated, my five cents: It probably was both the fault of the chantry and the elves. My father use two say along the line's "Not once fault when there's two fighting" basically to wage a war there is always two culprits. The hatred the elves feel for that is understandable as well as for the fact that they were stripped for everything they were. That they were treated lesser centuries later... has no justification. 

[Keroko]

Yeah, this makes no sense at all.

Throughout history, those fighting with the religious belief that they would be rewarded in death for their deeds has led people to be much more dangerous foes. Japanese kamikaze attacks were feared during the second world war, and even today religious extremists blowing themselves up in highly populated places is one of the greatest fears of our society.
 

This also make no sense. You could just as easily be a Herald by speaking of Andraste's return or sealing the Breach and the smaller Rifts. You're just pulling your opinion here, nothing more.

If you are the herald of Andraste, you speak for Andraste. That's literally the definition of being a herald.
 

The Qun is so unlike the Chantry that I'm not even sure why this is a point. The Tal-Vashoth obviously don't have as big a problem with the Chantry as you are implying.

I'm not saying the Tal-Vashoth 'have' a problem with the Chantry. I'm saying that being raised by Tal-Vashoth could give a qunari inquisitor motivation to not want to tie him or herself down to an organization should the player find that an appropriate motivation.

Could give. Optional. Not a sweeping claim for all Vashoth.
 

You agreed that Tevinter is holding back the Qunari. They obviously aren't. The Qunari are buying their time as they have been for centuries. The idea that Tevinter is the shield that's been doing this the entire time is ludicrous.

Is it? Tevinter is a consistent resource drain for the qunari. The Tevinter might not hold out forever, but it certainly slows down qunari buildup.

Small nations can be a great drain on a greater nation's resources. Just look at Iraq.
 

No it doesn't. Honestly, if you're just going to spew propaganda that's backed up nowhere, I can go ahead and stop replying now.

What? There literally is a part of the Chant of Light denouncing the existence of other gods. Here, transfigurations 1:

These truths the Maker has revealed to me:
As there is but one world,
One life, one death,
there is But one god, and He is our Maker.
They are sinners,
who have given their love To false gods.

The Chant of Light denies the existence of other gods. If the Chant of Light is to be sung from all corners of the world, everyone must deny the existence of other gods. This isn't "propaganda" it's one of the Chantry's core tenets.

[raging_monkey]

There's no evidence of this being true anywhere. Tevinter treats everyone equally awful.

so tevinter statues just look like elven statues? Ill admit i jumped the gun on use of magic but the statues seem a bit "odd" to me. Mind you br3ad im aware this possibly conjecture and me making leaps but its how i see things. If you respectfully disagree i accept your opinion so if it pleases you we may discuss the subject.* tone used was respectul and inquisitive seeking dialogue*

[Keroko]

Rivain itself did that, not the Chantry. That's like saying the Chantry supported Meredith going psycho just because Meredith was a member of the Chantry.

The codex entry specificaly states that it was the Rivain Chantry was involved in the purge.

 

"It's worth noting, however, that the Kingdom of Rivain immediately violated the treaty. Twice. Once, when the humans of northern Rivain—nearly all practitioners of the Qun and therefore by definition, "Qunari"—refused to leave their homes and go in exile to the islands. And again, when the Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves. It's a fortunate mystery that the leaders in Kont-aar did not alert their allies in the Northern Passage, or we'd still be fighting the giants now."

[Br3admax]

Throughout history, those fighting with the religious belief that they would be rewarded in death for their deeds has led people to be much more dangerous foes. Japanese kamikaze attacks were feared during the second world war, and even today religious extremists blowing themselves up in highly populated places is one of the greatest fears of our society.
 

That makes no sense in this setting. This isn't the real world. The Chantry does not have the beliefs you are trying to force onto them. Being a martyr is one thing, but without actual evidence that people are willing to die for no reason, even though we've seen multitudes to the contrary even in our own world, you have no point.

If you are the herald of Andraste, you speak for Andraste. That's literally the definition of being a herald.
 

No it's really not. A herald is also a sign of something to come. Of course I'm sure you have a dictionary, or at least an internet connection, so you could have looked that up before saying this. 

 

 

I'm not saying the Tal-Vashoth 'have' a problem with the Chantry. I'm saying that being raised by Tal-Vashoth could give a qunari inquisitor motivation to not want to tie him or herself down to an organization should the player find that an appropriate motivation.

Could give. Optional. Not a sweeping claim for all Vashoth.
 

What you said is that they would hear stories and these stories would motivate them not to be a herald for the Chantry. The Tal-Vashoth would have no problem with doing anything for the right price. This is why they are Tal-Vashoth. 

Is it? Tevinter is a consistent resource drain for the qunari. The Tevinter might not hold out forever, but it certainly slows down qunari buildup.

Small nations can be a great drain on a greater nation's resources. Just look at Iraq. 

Except nobody believes this. I see no reason why Sten would lie about the strength or the qunari, nor do I see how Tevinter holding off small raids would impact the Qunari significantly considering they, unlike Iraq, are industrialized and run an efficient society. Par Vollen is likely the most prosperous at least state wise, of all nations in Thedas. 

 

*snip*

That's not what the Chant is saying. The Chant is saying that the Chant must be sung from everywhere, not that everyone must sing it. And considering these same people are the ones who gave the elves the Dales to begin with, I doubt they would waste the effort in trying to take it back without a bigger reason.