234 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

That view depends very much on your value priority. The restrictions of romance and sex as well the fact that any mother will basicly "lose" their child is something not too many people enjoy.

 

It'd be an interesting social experiment walking around Fereldon and asking the peasents there: "Do you have a hard time feeding your children?" -- "Yes, winter was rough, and with the civil war, I can hardly provide enough food for all of us." -- "So do you want us to take your child away from you to a place where he is feed, under constant supervision and has to undergo a ritual that might make him into an unfeeling robot?" -- "Wait, what? Nooooo...."

 

Understand that I'm not trying to downplay the struggles of circle mages. I'm trying to point out that those struggles are different than the struggles a commoner outside the circle faces, and therefore playing a human mage is not equivalent to playing a human commoner. Rather, it's a unique experience with it's own baggage.

 

Though I would point out that the restrictions on romance and sex vary wildly from circle to circle.

[teenparty]

I can see how it could fit in story-wise, we could be part of a mercenary group like the dwarf starting story. 

 

The Dalish seem so self-centered to me, after reading Masked Empire, if i play an elf i'd rather it be a city elf. Especially if Briala is in the game, i dunno if she is or not but i think so. 

Because when we meet Briala in the game, she will be able to call you a selfish human/dalish.

[DRTJR]

While I am slightly bummed that I can not play a CE but at least I play an Elf.

[X Equestris]

But you lose your nobility and all its perks the minute you are inducted into the Circle. You become part of a subclass in society, property of the Chantry and Templars. So no, a human mage is not a noble, even though your family remains noble.

So is the human mage in Inquisition. Doesn't change the fact that they were born into nobility, and the Circle has a much better standard of living than that of a human or elven commoner. So no, we've never really played as a human at the bottom of the social ladder. The closest we got was Hawke, for only a third of the game.

[Scerene]

whats this hatred of the dalish all of a sudden?  Nothing the elves have done compares to the horror humans inflict upon the land. All of the drama in thedas started when humans showed up, the elves wanted nothing to do with them, and instead of killing and or enslaving them, which they could have done at the height of their power, they just moved away from them.  humans were nothing more than a bunch of primitive barbarian tribes at the time but once they gathered their strength and with the formation of tevinter they started maurading and dominating everything in their path. 

 

im just grateful we get to play as an elf at all  and a dalish background makes it far easier to incorporate the mage class for example. As long as i get to torture humans, im happy. There is a limit to how miserable i can make people irl afterall 

[X Equestris]

whats this hatred of the dalish all of a sudden?  Nothing the elves have done compares to the horror humans inflict upon the land. All of the drama in thedas started when humans showed up, the elves wanted nothing to do with them, and instead of killing and or enslaving them, which they could have done at the height of their power, they just moved away from them.  humans were nothing more than a bunch of primitive barbarian tribes at the time but once they gathered their strength and with the formation of tevinter they started maurading and dominating everything in their path. 
 
im just grateful we get to play as an elf at all  and a dalish background makes it far easier to incorporate the mage class for example. As long as i get to torture humans, im happy. There is a limit to how miserable i can make people irl afterall 

Let's not pretend that the Arlathan elves had a utopia. People dislike the Dalish because they are xenophobic and refuse to let go of the past. Some people want an alternative to that.

[Scerene]

and how exactly arent humans xenophobic? Wanting to "mesh" with other people by dominating, forcing your culture on, enslaving and treating them cruely and looking at them as inferiors, is hardly an "inclusive" mindset, its better to be xenophobic and avoid people than to be xenophobic and force yourself onto others. Why should they let go of their culture? They arent humans and dont want to be part of human society as cattle and animals. The dalish took in human brats and raised them as their own on  occasion, certain famous figures of thedas come to mind, what human family would do that for an elven kid?

[schall_und_rauch]

Understand that I'm not trying to downplay the struggles of circle mages. I'm trying to point out that those struggles are different than the struggles a commoner outside the circle faces, and therefore playing a human mage is not equivalent to playing a human commoner. Rather, it's a unique experience with it's own baggage.

 

I totally agree to that. Key word is different.

It's basicly freedom with the responsability of caring for your own survival in a harsh, harsh world vs. being under constant supervision in a somewhat golden cage. You are protected from the world, the world is protected from you, but you will never enjoy some of the pleasures that common people enjoy.

 

The outlook and life experience of a circle mage would be very different to that of a commoner. Finn from Witch Hunt is a good example for that.

[CrybabyXD]

I would like play a city elf too but i will play as elf and beat the game before i make judgements maybe in future dA titles we can again.

 

 

The Dwarf and elf being there as spies doesnt make alot sense to me atm either.

[X Equestris]

and how exactly arent humans xenophobic? Wanting to "mesh" with other people by dominating, forcing your culture on, enslaving and treating them cruely and looking at them as inferiors, is hardly an "inclusive" mindset, its better to be xenophobic and avoid people than to be xenophobic and force yourself onto others. Why should they let go of their culture? They arent humans and dont want to be part of human society as cattle and animals. The dalish took in human brats and raised them as their own on  occasion, certain famous figures of thedas come to mind, what human family would do that for an elven kid?

I was simply answering your question of why people hate the Dalish. Besides, the Tevinter were nasty to everyone except the dwarves. If we're talking about the fall of the Dales, that was partially their own fault. I never said they should let go of their culture, I said they should let go of the past. If they really wanted to, they could all journey to some sparsely populated corner of Thedas and try to rebuild, but they haven't even tried to.

[elfdwarf]

why would a free marcher city elf go to haven who wouldn't even have enough money to go there. city elves might be part main plots.

[X Equestris]

why would a free marcher city elf go to haven who wouldn't even have enough money to go there.
city elves might be part main plots.

That's why I think they weren't included. There's not much of a reason for them to be there, and they might not have the training and education to make protagonist material.

[Scerene]

I was simply answering your question of why people hate the Dalish. Besides, the Tevinter were nasty to everyone except the dwarves. If we're talking about the fall of the Dales, that was partially their own fault. I never said they should let go of their culture, I said they should let go of the past. If they really wanted to, they could all journey to some sparsely populated corner of Thedas and try to rebuild, but they haven't even tried to.

im talking about all of it, the dwarves and elves were coexisting in peace and humans started the drama as soon as they showed up, as barbarians, as the tevinter imperium and now when they are enslaving and torturing or driving them off . How havent they tried to? Thats exactly what they are trying to do but humans keep invading them, Why should elves be relegated to living on the fringes(as if humans wouldnt brutalise or drive them off wherever they go anyway) or as slaves to humans? Ugh how are they supposed to retain their culture while letting go of the past their culture is based upon. Thats like saying to a religious person, you can be a christian as long as you let go of the christian  history, culture, the bible, jesus and all the history that goes along with it,.

 

As for the dales, the chantry was just itching for an excuse to start an exalted march. 

[NUM13ER]

I understand being disappointed about it not being a City Elf but honestly a Dalish Elf makes the most sense if you had to choose between the two, given it's outlook is further apart from human society and culture. 

Not to mention the fact that a Dalish Elf being a mage is far easier to explain story wise than a city dwelling Elf apostate being allowed to remain so long within an alienage.

End of the day there's only a finite amount of resources and budget to cater to so many backgrounds. I'd rather have the addition of the Qunari race be part of that budget than having something like a Noble Dwarf or City Elf origin in it's place.

[X Equestris]

im talking about all of it, the dwarves and elves were coexisting in peace and humans started the drama as soon as they showed up, as barbarians, as the tevinter imperium and now when they are enslaving and torturing or driving them off . How havent they tried to? Thats exactly what they are trying to do but humans keep invading them, Why should elves be relegated to living on the fringes(as if humans wouldnt brutalise or drive them off wherever they go anyway) or as slaves to humans? Ugh how are they supposed to retain their culture while letting go of the past their culture is based upon. Thats like saying to a religious person, you can be a christian as long as you let go of the christian  history, culture, the bible, jesus and all the history that goes along with it,.
 
As for the dales, the chantry was just itching for an excuse to start an exalted march.

I like how you automatically equated a religious person with being a Christian, as if there weren't other religions in the world.

Ancient history wise, we don't know why Tevinter invaded Arlathan. They may have had a good reason, or they may simply have been conquering. The elves and dwarves coexisted because they had no overlap. One lived on the surface, the other underground. Limited competition for resources.

The Dalish haven't really attempted to settle down anywhere. They wander about, complaining about their lost past and never actually trying to do a thing about it. There are clans that will kill humans who cross their path and have done nothing wrong. They hate city elves. That's why people dislike the Dalish.

The elves of the Dales shirked their treaty obligations in the Second Blight. They isolated themselves from their neighbors. They invaded Orlais and sacked towns and cities along the way. The Exalted March was declared a while after the invasion began. If the Chantry had really wanted to invade the Dales, they could have declared the Exalted March much sooner.

As for letting go of the past, I mean they should stop wallowing in their grief and actually try to do something. For one thing, their hatred of humans only serves to reinforce the human view of the Dalish as savages. If they let go of that, maybe they could make a few friends or advocates amongst humanity, but they don't.

[StrangeStrategy]

If you think about it, City Elf mercenaries wouldn't work. Elves aren't allowed weapons. Our Tabris got secret training from his/her mother, but that was rare. Most City Elves have never held a weapon, or had any training. Only elves that somehow manage to get out of the Alienage have a chance at learning how to fight or joining a mercenary group.

Meanwhile Dalish are taught from a young age how to fight, survive, hunt, kill, etc. It makes more sense.

[KennethAFTopp]

I can see how it could fit in story-wise, we could be part of a mercenary group like the dwarf starting story. 

 

The Dalish seem so self-centered to me, after reading Masked Empire, if i play an elf i'd rather it be a city elf. Especially if Briala is in the game, i dunno if she is or not but i think so. 

good question, why can't I play as Batman?

[Ryzaki]

If you think about it, City Elf mercenaries wouldn't work. Elves aren't allowed weapons. Our Tabris got secret training from his/her mother, but that was rare. Most City Elves have never held a weapon, or had any training. Only elves that somehow manage to get out of the Alienage have a chance at learning how to fight or joining a mercenary group.

Meanwhile Dalish are taught from a young age how to fight, survive, hunt, kill, etc. It makes more sense.

 

CEs can use weapons.

 

Kirkwall for instance during act 2 you get attacked by a decent amount of CEs using bows and daggers. It's not that strange for elves to be a part of gangs either (I'm supposed to believe the CEs the most oppressed group don't have gangs of thugs?) There's those elves that killed the guard in act 2 as well.

 

Not to mention you really can get around that with a bard origin.

[X Equestris]

CEs can use weapons.
 
Kirkwall for instance during act 2 you get attacked by a decent amount of CEs using bows and daggers. It's not that strange for elves to be a part of gangs either (I'm supposed to believe the CEs the most oppressed group don't have gangs of thugs?) There's those elves that killed the guard in act 2 as well.
 
Not to mention you really can get around that with a bard origin.

I think the thing about having them shoehorned into being mercenaries or criminals is that it gives off a different feel than just being an "average" person. Ultimately, though, Bioware decided that it didn't fit, for one reason or another. Hopefully, the option to play as city elves will reappear further on down the line.

[KennethAFTopp]

And then we will see topics on why we can't play as a Dalish.

[Felya87]

If you think about it, City Elf mercenaries wouldn't work. Elves aren't allowed weapons. Our Tabris got secret training from his/her mother, but that was rare. Most City Elves have never held a weapon, or had any training. Only elves that somehow manage to get out of the Alienage have a chance at learning how to fight or joining a mercenary group.

Meanwhile Dalish are taught from a young age how to fight, survive, hunt, kill, etc. It makes more sense.

 

Sketch would not agree. He is a mercenary and an apostate mage.

Athenril was the head of the group of smugglers Hawke have to work with for a year.

Devera is a slaver elf from Tevinter.

Lia became a city guard in act 3.

Katriel was a bard.

 

there are many examples of City Elves being fighters and many natural ways to have a CE a the meeting. (I find much more forced the Dalish than any of the ways a City Elf can be at the meeting. really, be sent to spy humans...because "Keeper premonition?")

[Ryzaki]

I think the thing about having them shoehorned into being mercenaries or criminals is that it gives off a different feel than just being an "average" person. Ultimately, though, Bioware decided that it didn't fit, for one reason or another. Hopefully, the option to play as city elves will reappear further on down the line.

 

Ah true.

 

Sadly my heart broke when they went only dalish. They're easily my least favorite dragon age culture.

 

I hope so.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You can't play as a Qun following Qunari, nor a non-serface Dwarf. Or even as a human peasant.
Limits have to be in place for narrative to work, or you might as well start arguing that you want to play as a nug.

That's a discussion worth having.

Are background restrictions valuable? Or should we be able to play a mysterious stranger whose background never gets referenced, in order to grant us more roleplaying freedom?

[mikeymoonshine]

CEs can use weapons.

 

Kirkwall for instance during act 2 you get attacked by a decent amount of CEs using bows and daggers. It's not that strange for elves to be a part of gangs either (I'm supposed to believe the CEs the most oppressed group don't have gangs of thugs?) There's those elves that killed the guard in act 2 as well.

 

Not to mention you really can get around that with a bard origin.

 

I think most city elves are not really meant to be that well trained with weapons. Also a bard would most likely be Orlesian so the accent thing would be a problem (although there is no reason why a dalish elf would sound the same as a freemarcher). 

[NUM13ER]

That's a discussion worth having.

Are background restrictions valuable? Or should we be able to play a mysterious stranger whose background never gets referenced, in order to grant us more roleplaying freedom?

Honestly I prefer voiced protagonists with some measure of definition (eg. an origin & VA) as opposed to silent protagonists with no past. I find it more engaging. I know some people didn't like Hawke having a voice actor but personally I very much enjoyed his/her interactions and dialogue quite a bit.

Then again I don't see my characters as avatars of myself but rather a character I've made to inhabit their world. One which I happen to have a degree of agency over. The pros outweighing the cons for me.

The type of agency some roleplay fans want from a videogame RPG can only really be found in a tabletop RPG and the imagination doesn't have a budget to worry about.