234 réponses à ce sujet

[X Equestris]

I was just using Christianity as an example, im not religious myself if that's what you are alluding to, and I really like how you completely dodge most of the questions I ask.  Have you read the world of thedas? The elves didn't attack the humans when they could have, even as they were *competing* for resources, its the humans that attacked for the simple reason that they wanted to dominate, as soon as they showed up, but it wasn't until several of their barbarian tribes coalesced into tevinter, that they had the means to do so. 
 
tevinter wanted to invade for obvious reasons, their society is heavily pecking order based just like all medieval human societies have been, with dominance as the prime goal,tevinter is slightly more so than the other nations however.
Orlais wanted the dales of course, and they couldn't stand the idea of the elves living apart from them and not wanting to listen to their proselytizing or dealing with their bs. It kept angering them and this desire to take over was bubbling under the surface long before they started the march on the dales, on top of that humans attacked their settlements aswell. The chantry in orlais has started several exalted marches on tevinter *claiming*  its for the simple reason that the head is a human male mage. Religion and or "protecting itself" is a pretense for orlais to garner more influence and territory, no matter who they are attacking. What reason would they have to waste their time and a huge amount of resources gathering an army, and starting wars several times over, just for the sake of changing tevinters attitude about who should lead the chantry in their *own* country? Ergo, common sense dictates that they start wars for the same reasons that humans irl do, to claim territories for themselves, religion and/or "self-preservation" as an excuse is the oldest trick in the book, and a small band of rag tag elves attacking a human town is even more ridiculous as a reason to invoke a massive war towards the elves, sack the one territory they have and enslave them. Its written between the lines , and seriously the exalted marches are so clearly based upon the christian "holy" wars where they used god as an excuse to take over and dominate what they perceived to be "lesser" people. Its much easier to justify and receive support for a cause when you bring religion into the mix. The chantry/ is overwhelmingly dominant as a religion in thedas, and since orlais heads the chantry, it stands to reason that its the dominant country in the area, which means that they have support from the other countries and don't have to worry about people helping others when they decide its time to start meddling and forcibly converting others countries (aka wanting to take territory). Not that human countries would ever help the elves anyway. Nobody wanting to stand by tevinter is hardly a surprise though considering their reputation with  the whole magister golden city thing, but this could also be something the chantry made up as an excuse to garner even more animosity toward tevinter. Orlais being an imperialistic society that uses any excuse to get their way is hardly news. Remember, not long before the start of DAO did they dominate and refuse to let go of ferelden..
 
I opened up the world of thedas and took a good look at the map, and i cant find any area where the elves should try "rebuilding" because there is no space. Ah and here we have the oldest excuse for oppression in the book "oppressed people need to *prove* to the people brutalizing them that they shouldnt be brutalized and oppressed and any misstep they make is justification for it",  which doesnt work btw, because the human world is still full of it, despite our best efforts. Maybe if humans started treating them with kindness then they wouldnt have any reason to bear animosity. What reason do they have to uphold these lame treatise when nobody gives a **** when they are being attacked? I still remember that attack on the alienage at the end of the game, both as a warden and as darkspawn through the dlc, and there was absolutely no human or any guards helping them in that attack. If Redcliffe was an elven town, how many humans do you think would be saving it? How come no humans take in elven kids as their own, unlike the other way around? ergo elves are kinder to humans than humans are to them, we see several examples of this throughout DAO and even DA2. Im sure if humans apologized and tried to make amends instead of constantly trying to "put them in their place" and brutalizing them, then there could be peace.

Well, you again absolve the elves of any potential wrong doing. You're making sweeping generalizations about humanity and real world history. The misanthropy in your posts is obvious, and I'm disengaging. I explained to you why people in-universe and out dislike the Dalish. That is all.

[Warden Nick]

Maybe the your charachter (the city elf) is about to marry and his partner is an important figure attending the meeting, so you acompany him/her. They have a planned grand wedding but then everything goes nuts.During the chaos one of the mage's accidentaly throws a fireball in fear and blows your partner in to tiny pieces. Your are furious ofcourse and swear to take revenge on your love.

Thank you

[Icy Magebane]

is not as if a Dalish are exactly "good for the job" either. They are liked much less than any human commoner and City Elf. In same cases they are seen as bandits.

 

and really...the Dwarf origin is a member of the Carta!!! one of the most hated criminal organization! what intelligent/onest person would, outside of a videogame, give the chance to guide a powerful organization to someone like this?

 

Really, I think the only reason the Dalish origin was choosen over the CE, was only to have a very different background from the other races. But I still think CE would have made much more sense, and it wasn't surely impossibile to implement, since at least in my eyes, it would have made much more sense to a CE being at the meeting than a Dalish, whose motivations feel quite forced.

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I find it strange that the Keeper of a Dalish clan in the Free Marches would be so interested in knowing the results of the peace talks that she would send a lone elf thousands of miles south to hear them in person and then report back...  It's not like the Dalish elf will have any role in influencing these talks, so at most, the Keeper will find out what decision the mages and Templars came to a few days in advance, assuming their spy even survives the trip there and back.  I'm not really seeing a good reason for any of this, but that's what happens sometimes when we analyze fiction too closely. 

 

As for the idea of a city elf protagonist... tbh, I think that a city elf bodyguard would have worked well.  The future Inquisitor could have been one of those exceptionally talented elves that humanity deems worthy to do more than shine boots... after all, servitude is the most common profession of city elves, but it is not their only option in life.  I can see a noble taking notice of a promising young elf and giving them an opportunity based on merit, regardless of their race.  In the case of a mage, it could have been something similar to the Trevelyan background, but with an elven Circle Mage rather than a human... very few details would need to be altered for this to work.  The only thing that stands out for Trevelyan is their family connection and the fact that they resisted arrest... change those two factors and we have a whole new protagonist.  The idea of a "bodyguard" or "Circle mage" may sound a bit basic, but it's at least as interesting as the incredibly generic Tal-Vashoth mercenary background.  However boring it may seem to start off as a bodyguard or mercenary, at least these backgrounds have a legitimate reason to be at the conference.  The Dalish have an interesting culture, but their motive for being present is rather thin based on what we know right now...

 

So yes, I can see how a city elf would have fit into the plot, perhaps even more logically than a Dalish elf.  That said, I'm sure that Bioware had some reason for their choice... it probably has something to do with a specific storyline that they were going for, and since they seem to be pretty good with stories, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the game proves otherwise.

[Lady Luminous]

I think of it this way, to replace not getting to play a CE we get to play a qunari, an option not available to us in DA:O. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I find it strange that the Keeper of a Dalish clan in the Free Marches would be so interested in knowing the results of the peace talks that she would send a lone elf thousands of miles south to hear them in person and then report back...  It's not like the Dalish elf will have any role in influencing these talks, so at most, the Keeper will find out what decision the mages and Templars came to a few days in advance, assuming their spy even survives the trip there and back.  I'm not really seeing a good reason for any of this, but that's what happens sometimes when we analyze fiction too closely. 

And why send your First to do it? That is the person who you have trained to carry your clan after you are gone, so why risk them at all?

[Lady Luminous]

And why send your First to do it? That is the person who you have trained to carry your clan after you are gone, so why risk them at all?

 

Because another First can always be trained in your character's absence, but you're the one the keeper trusts the most to do this dangerous mission.

[Icy Magebane]

And why send your First to do it? That is the person who you have trained to carry your clan after you are gone, so why risk them at all?

Your guess is as good as mine.  I don't see any real benefit in knowing the results of the conference a couple days in advance.  The news will eventually reach the clan, and it's not like this is an anti-Dalish conference... the Templars have been fine with leaving them alone for several centuries... I don't really see them changing their minds now.  Since the Dalish really don't have a lot at stake, knowing what the humans decide on doesn't seem like it would be is worth the risk of the current First dying out in the wilderness. 

 

Because another First can always be trained in your character's absence, but you're the one the keeper trusts the most to do this dangerous mission.

Maybe so, but I'm starting to doubt the necessity of the mission in the first place.

[Lady Luminous]

 

Maybe so, but I'm starting to doubt the necessity of the mission in the first place.

 

I'm trying to have faith in BioWare and that the mission will link into an extremely relevant story arc. 

 

(My bubble will not be burst! )

[Former_Fiend]

Not true. In the Leliana's Song DLC, we have a Warrior and Mage as part of our group.

 

Being a bard isn't a job, it's a skill set. Tug and Sketch aren't bards. They worked with a bard, for a bard. That does not make them bards.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Being a bard isn't a job, it's a skill set. Tug and Sketch aren't bards. They worked with a bard, for a bard. That does not make them bards.

Bards are a profession. There is a specialization in Origins called Bard that is tied to rogues, but that does not mean only rogues are bards. Templar is a warrior specialization, and yet we see Templar rogues. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because another First can always be trained in your character's absence, but you're the one the keeper trusts the most to do this dangerous mission.

So you are valuable enough to lead the clan, yet expendable enough to send on a dangerous and not even essential mission and can easily be replaced by someone else if something goes wrong? Seems a bit like mixing messages to me. 

 

 

Your guess is as good as mine.  I don't see any real benefit in knowing the results of the conference a couple days in advance.  The news will eventually reach the clan, and it's not like this is an anti-Dalish conference... the Templars have been fine with leaving them alone for several centuries... I don't really see them changing their minds now.  Since the Dalish really don't have a lot at stake, knowing what the humans decide on doesn't seem like it would be is worth the risk of the current First dying out in the wilderness. 

Exactly. 

[Icy Magebane]

I'm trying to have faith in BioWare and that the mission will link into an extremely relevant story arc. 

 

(My bubble will not be burst! )

lol xD  It's entirely possible that the Keeper has an undisclosed motive for sending us to the conference.  Since she's a mage and the story is heavily focused on the Fade, I initially assumed that she must have some mystical insight into the events that would take place there... that's still a possibility considering Flemeth's past interactions with the elves and various heroes in the Dragon Age.  So although it seems questionable based on the information we have, I agree that we might be surprised when we learn the full story.  At least, I hope so.  Based on the details we've been given, the Dalish motive seems a bit more difficult to justify than the others...

[Lady Luminous]

So you are valuable enough to lead the clan, yet expendable enough to send on a dangerous and not even essential mission and can easily be replaced by someone else if something goes wrong? Seems a bit like mixing messages to me. 

 

 

Exactly. 

 

If there's a first I assume there's a second or someone who can get trained as a back-up. Are you absolutely sure it isn't essential?  I highly doubt that the keeper expects you to turn up dead. 

[Lady Luminous]

lol xD  It's entirely possible that the Keeper has an undisclosed motive for sending us to the conference.  Since she's a mage and the story is heavily focused on the Fade, I initially assumed that she must have some mystical insight into the events that would take place there... that's still a possibility considering Flemeth's past interactions with the elves and various heroes in the Dragon Age.  So although it seems questionable based on the information we have, I agree that we might be surprised when we learn the full story.  At least, I hope so.  Based on the details we've been given, the Dalish motive seems a bit more difficult to justify than the others...

 

Hence why I'm playing a qunari, but I see your worries. I just have to hope that the story is better written than the blurbs. 

[Icy Magebane]

Hence why I'm playing a qunari, but I see your worries. I just have to hope that the story is better written than the blurbs. 

That has crossed my mind more than once... maybe on my second or third char.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If there's a first I assume there's a second or someone who can get trained as a back-up. Are you absolutely sure it isn't essential?  I highly doubt that the keeper expects you to turn up dead. 

How is it essential? It has nothing to do with the Dalish, or Elves at all for that matter. The Keeper would know this. 

[Lady Luminous]

How is it essential? It has nothing to do with the Dalish, or Elves at all for that matter. The Keeper would know this. 

"The clan wandered the northern Free Marches and had little need to interact with humans—until the clan's Keeper sent you to the Chantry's conclave as a spy. What happened there, she said, would impact not only the Dalish but indeed all elves. She could not have known how right she was." - Dragon Age Inquisitor page

 

Explain how this mission is not essential if the Keeper has told you that it will impact all elves? 

[Lady Luminous]

That has crossed my mind more than once... maybe on my second or third char.

 

I love their storyline of being a merc and not following the Qun. It's going to be grand for me.  

[Lumix19]

We don't actually know if the reason given to the Dalish Inquisitor by the Keeper is the real reason or a cover story. Our keeper could have some hidden knowledge about the meeting we know nothing about.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"The clan wandered the northern Free Marches and had little need to interact with humans—until the clan's Keeper sent you to the Chantry's conclave as a spy. What happened there, she said, would impact not only the Dalish but indeed all elves. She could not have known how right she was." - Dragon Age Inquisitor page

 

Explain how this mission is not essential if the Keeper has told you that it will impact all elves? 

Simple, the Keeper's assumptions about the meeting are wrong. The people there are there to discuss the Mage-Templar War. The only reason that meeting would affect all elves is because it is where the Breach is formed, which is an unforeseeable event...unless of course your Keeper was a part of it. But then that begs the question of why they would send someone they trust so much to certain death?  

[Lady Luminous]

Simple, the Keeper's assumptions about the meeting are wrong. The people there are there to discuss the Mage-Templar War. The only reason that meeting would affect all elves is because it is where the Breach is formed, which is an unforeseeable event...unless of course your Keeper was a part of it. But then that begs the question of why they would send someone they trust so much to certain death?  

 

Ever hear of premonition or precognition? The keeper doesn't have to be a part of a sinister plot to have visions of an event occuring and wanting one of her people to be in place when it's supposed to occur.

 

It depends on what the vision showed the keeper; they don't have to know that it's certain death. 

[X Equestris]

Simple, the Keeper's assumptions about the meeting are wrong. The people there are there to discuss the Mage-Templar War. The only reason that meeting would affect all elves is because it is where the Breach is formed, which is an unforeseeable event...unless of course your Keeper was a part of it. But then that begs the question of why they would send someone they trust so much to certain death?

The decisions reached at the summit could change Chantry policy towards Dalish mages.

Bards are a profession. There is a specialization in Origins called Bard that is tied to rogues, but that does not mean only rogues are bards. Templar is a warrior specialization, and yet we see Templar rogues.

Bards also hire mercenaries to aid them, like Gaspard's bard in The Masked Empire does. I think that is a better classification of what Tug and Sketch are. Those Templar would still have some of the innate Templar abilities.

[Icy Magebane]

The decisions reached at the summit could change Chantry policy towards Dalish mages.

Even so, sending one of the most valuable members of the clan thousands of miles away to hear the decision makes little sense on its own.  Whatever the Chantry decides, the Keeper will find out sooner or later.  I don't see how this is an urgent or important matter, or why this specific Keeper decides she needs to know the answer... none of the other Dalish clans are sending out spies.  Either there is something else going on that we're unaware of, or the Dalish motive is paper thin.

[Lady Luminous]

Even so, sending one of the most valuable members of the clan thousands of miles away to hear the decision makes little sense on its own.  Whatever the Chantry decides, the Keeper will find out sooner or later.  I don't see how this is an urgent or important matter, or why this specific Keeper decides she needs to know the answer... none of the other Dalish clans are sending out spies.  Either there is something else going on that we're unaware of, or the Dalish motive is paper thin.

 

Do we know for a fact that no other keepers are sending spies? Just curious. 

 

I'm just really excited to play the game and see how this all turns out. I think it's too early to be so disappointed in the story intro. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ever hear of premonition or precognition? The keeper doesn't have to be a part of a sinister plot to have visions of an event occuring and wanting one of her people to be in place when it's supposed to occur.

 

It depends on what the vision showed the keeper; they don't have to know that it's certain death. 

So the Keeper risks their clan's future leader's or best hunter's life based on a feeling? I don't know if that's better or worse. 

 

 

Bards also hire mercenaries to aid them, like Gaspard's bard in The Masked Empire does. I think that is a better classification of what Tug and Sketch are. Those Templar would still have some of the innate Templar abilities.

Fair point. But since Bard isn't a specialization this time, I still stand by it could have been used as a backstory possibility.