Nobles have access to trained apostates if they want their services. Didn't Gaspard have an elven apostate helping him in The Masked Empire? She wasn't a slave and she knew actual spellcasting rather than hedge magic.
I think she was a noble's daughter and human.
I think she was a noble's daughter and human.
Hm... you know what, I think you're right. I had Lienne confused with somebody else. Either way, nobles have access to apostates if they want them. I'm sure that extends beyond humans. IMO, an elven mage bodyguard to an important noble sounds more legit than a Dalish mage/spy who traveled several thousand miles just to listen in on a meeting that only tangentially concerns their clan. Dalish mages are somewhat rare, aren't they? The idea that the First would be sent to a large gathering of Templars is far more incredulous than a non-racist human noble having their elven bodyguard following them around.
Yes, because Fiona clearly wasn't capable because of her being a slave.
capable? yes. trained? no. Her first act of magic was killing her master something hedge mages are capable of (Ketojan).
Hm... you know what, I think you're right. I had Lienne confused with somebody else. Either way, nobles have access to apostates if they want them. I'm sure that extends beyond humans. IMO, an elven mage bodyguard to an important noble sounds more legit than a Dalish mage/spy who traveled several thousand miles just to listen in on a meeting that only tangentially concerns their clan. Dalish mages are somewhat rare, aren't they? The idea that the First would be sent to a large gathering of Templars is far more incredulous than a non-racist human noble having their elven bodyguard following them around.
There are rebel mages there too, it wouldn't be hard to hide from templars. I have seen bard mentioned a few times too but just so I can shoot down that idea I am going to mention that none of the inquisitor voices have a french sound to them so it would be difficult to imagine them being from Orlais.
There are rebel mages there too, it wouldn't be hard to hide from templars. I have seen bard mentioned a few times too but just so I can shoot down that idea I am going to mention that none of the inquisitor voices have a french sound to them so it would be difficult to imagine them being from Orlais.
Perhaps not, but combined with the flimsy reason the Keeper gives for sending them there in the first place, and the dangers inherent in traveling hundreds, if not thousands, of miles through a dragon, zombie, and bandit-infested wilderness, the Dalish background is making less and less sense the more I think about it. None of those issues would arise with a city elf bodyguard background... sure it might be a bit generic, but nowhere near as bare bones as the Tal-Vashoth mercenary. More importantly, those really simple backgrounds make perfect sense, while the Dalish background does not.
Hm... you know what, I think you're right. I had Lienne confused with somebody else. Either way, nobles have access to apostates if they want them. I'm sure that extends beyond humans. IMO, an elven mage bodyguard to an important noble sounds more legit than a Dalish mage/spy who traveled several thousand miles just to listen in on a meeting that only tangentially concerns their clan. Dalish mages are somewhat rare, aren't they? The idea that the First would be sent to a large gathering of Templars is far more incredulous than a non-racist human noble having their elven bodyguard following them around.
capable? yes. trained? no. Her first act of magic was killing her master something hedge mages are capable of (Ketojan).
So instead of killing your master like she did hers, you are trained in secret to be a useful tool for them. They train you in your skill sets, give you an education, etc until you are a skilled agent.
It's pretty plausible if the First goes with a couple of other clan members. I find it unlikely that the Dalish Inquisitor is sent on their lonesome. The Qunari are part of a mercenary group and the humans are part of a delegation (IIRC).
Those backgrounds aren't there to spy though, so they can be in bigger numbers.
It's pretty plausible if the First goes with a couple of other clan members. I find it unlikely that the Dalish Inquisitor is sent on their lonesome. The Qunari are part of a mercenary group and the humans are part of a delegation (IIRC).
The whole clan could make the trip and that still wouldn't mean they had a good reason for wanting to observe the meeting first hand.
So instead of killing your master like she did hers, you are trained in secret to be a useful tool for them. They train you in your skill sets, give you an education, etc until you are a skilled agent.
Those backgrounds aren't there to spy though, so they can be in bigger numbers.
1: that sounds like you would be brainwashed and I just don't think that there is a lot to work with story wise for a "elf mage slave" or a elf slave guard/assassin.
2: Why do you have to have big numbers? the dwarves are there spying too. what interest does the Carta have in a peace conference?
Perhaps not, but combined with the flimsy reason the Keeper gives for sending them there in the first place, and the dangers inherent in traveling hundreds, if not thousands, of miles through a dragon, zombie, and bandit-infested wilderness, the Dalish background is making less and less sense the more I think about it. None of those issues would arise with a city elf bodyguard background... sure it might be a bit generic, but nowhere near as bare bones as the Tal-Vashoth mercenary. More importantly, those really simple backgrounds make perfect sense, while the Dalish background does not.
The Dwarves are traveling "hundreds, if not thousands of miles" just to spy on the peace conference for the Carta. I just think that if you look at it the city elf would most likely have to be a criminal or mercenary for them to have any combat experience or the mage be an ex-circle mage. I don't think anything else but those two backgrounds would more sense than Dalish spy. but the Carta dwarf, qunari mercenary and human mage have all of those covered so I think that Dalish spy offered the most diversity and flexibility.
If the game doesn't give us a reason I'm tempted to go with Flemeth had words with the Keeper. On non dalish playthroughs Lavellen got lost on the way to Haven.
1: that sounds like you would be brainwashed and I just don't think that there is a lot to work with story wise for a "elf mage slave" or a elf slave guard/assassin.
2: Why do you have to have big numbers? the dwarves are there spying too. what interest does the Carta have in a peace conference?
How does it sound like you are being brainwashed? If being trained to serve a role since childhood is brainwashing, than the Dalish Inquisitor is just as brainwashed.
The person I was replying to said they don't go alone, to which I replied that unlike the Human and Qunari, the Elf is there to spy so having multiple people makes you easier to detect. I don't think the Dwarves will have an entourage with them either for the same reason. As for their interest, lyrium smuggling. They could lose buyers depending on how the war goes.
Perhaps not, but combined with the flimsy reason the Keeper gives for sending them there in the first place, and the dangers inherent in traveling hundreds, if not thousands, of miles through a dragon, zombie, and bandit-infested wilderness, the Dalish background is making less and less sense the more I think about it. None of those issues would arise with a city elf bodyguard background... sure it might be a bit generic, but nowhere near as bare bones as the Tal-Vashoth mercenary. More importantly, those really simple backgrounds make perfect sense, while the Dalish background does not.
1) Its entirely possible Bioware just didn't remember the implied travel time, head-cannon northern free marches to northern Ferelden and problem solved. Stuff like that can easily slip even best writer's mind sometimes, especially if say that's where your clan will end up.
2) They probably picked Dalish because on some level the Dalish are still at least a bit feared/respected [even if as just spooky bandits and brigands], where as if they went with a City Elf you couldn't go to Orlais with out every second NPC assuming you were there to serve them tea or empty the chamber pot or what not. The face tat's are probably how the Orlessians tell feral elves apart from the house trained ones.
They don't need an entourage but a small group could probably get around undetected. Certainly you would have to balance the dangers of getting detected against the dangers your spy could reasonably face and a group of 4 or even more fits that pretty well.How does it sound like you are being brainwashed? If being trained to serve a role since childhood is brainwashing, than the Dalish Inquisitor is just as brainwashed.
The person I was replying to said they don't go alone, to which I replied that unlike the Human and Qunari, the Elf is there to spy so having multiple people makes you easier to detect. I don't think the Dwarves will have an entourage with them either for the same reason. As for their interest, lyrium smuggling. They could lose buyers depending on how the war goes.
They don't need an entourage but a small group could probably get around undetected. Certainly you would have to balance the dangers of getting detected against the dangers your spy could reasonably face and a group of 4 or even more fits that pretty well.
Edit: Also the Chantry/Circle don't buy lyrium from the Carta do they? One would assume they get it from legitimate sources.
Ah, okay. I thought you were thinking like it was several people, like 8-10.
Well, both the Mages and Templars are now separate from the Chantry, and thus don't have access to the Chantry's lyrium. So they would have to find other sources to get it from. The Carta is the logical choice.
Bards are a profession. There is a specialization in Origins called Bard that is tied to rogues, but that does not mean only rogues are bards. Templar is a warrior specialization, and yet we see Templar rogues.
I'm not saying that a warrior or mage couldn't theoretically be a bard. I'm saying that Tug and Sketch were not. Being a bard is more than just spying. It's about reading and manipulating people.
Ah, okay. I thought you were thinking like it was several people, like 8-10.
Well, both the Mages and Templars are now separate from the Chantry, and thus don't have access to the Chantry's lyrium. So they would have to find other sources to get it from. The Carta is the logical choice.
I'm not saying that a warrior or mage couldn't theoretically be a bard. I'm saying that Tug and Sketch were not. Being a bard is more than just spying. It's about reading and manipulating people.
Okay.
That's true, perhaps they might even be sent to disrupt the summit? Hard to say. I'm assuming we'll get to play at least a little through these backgrounds right? Or will they merely be referred to?
It isn't like Origins where you play your background and then meet up at the starting point. It is more like Mass Effect in my opinion where the background shapes your character how you decide and gives unique opportunities in the game.
Okay.
It isn't like Origins where you play your background and then meet up at the starting point. It is more like Mass Effect in my opinion where the background shapes your character how you decide and gives unique opportunities in the game.
Really? That's unfortunate, I thought they might make more sense if we saw them play out, then they might have more context.
Apparently we expand on our background through conversations or something like that.
I, for one, am stoked to play a Dalish. After reading Masked Empire, I'm looking forward to rolling a proud, disdainful First who sneers at the lower races and doesn't even consider city elves her people anymore. She'll save the world, but only for the elves' sakes...if all the humans and dwarves get wiped out before she manages it, then she won't shed many tears.
Still, I can see where everybody else is coming from...would be nice to have the option of rising up from a spot in the elvish rebellion (even if it was class limited to warriors and rogues for story consistency).
They seem to players to be outsiders so all the races' backgrounds are that of people who are outsiders to Orlias and Freleden.
Theres a city elf rebellion thats apparently is going on in Orlias and therefore they chose to make an elf inquisitor Dalish to keep them as outsiders.
But I personally think there is, due to my opinion of how dangerous a prolonged mage-templar war could be, and the effects it can have to the whole words under the White Chantry, elves included (not to mention that the problem between mages templars.The whole clan could make the trip and that still wouldn't mean they had a good reason for wanting to observe the meeting first hand.
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But I personally think there is, due to my opinion of how dangerous a prolonged mage-templar war could be, and the effects it can have to the whole words under the White Chantry, elves included (not to mention that the problem between mages templars.
Plus, there are mages and templars, from what we know of the hinterlands, that went too far and started killing civilians. I don't think It's too far to think some templars might to hunting dalish if they meet some, since they have free mages. So a peaceful solution of the mage-templar war is in the dalish's best interest.
Granted, a dalish can't to much other the spying, but maybe the Keeper wanted first-hand experience of what will happen at the conference. We do know that stories narrated by others tend to exaggerate or change some events
Exactly... which is why I'm having trouble accepting the idea that the Keeper of some random clan in the Free Marches would send either her First or one of her most skilled hunters all the way to Haven simply to take notes and then come back home. That's crazy.
There has to be more to it than that... right?
Exactly... which is why I'm having trouble accepting the idea that the Keeper of some random clan in the Free Marches would send either her First or one of her most skilled hunters all the way to Haven simply to take notes and then come back home. That's crazy.
There has to be more to it that that... right?
Templars hunt Dalish mages too, and are a large part of the reason they stay on the run rather than settling places. I can see why they'd want to know the outcome of the human laws regarding mages, because if they stop hunting apostates and trying to force them into their circles, that makes life a lot easier for the dalish (they have to worry more about farmers and eventually pissed off nobles forcing them out of areas than templars gunning for them and specifically their leaders)
Especially since it's probably well known dalish have mage leaders (or at the very least they have plenty of mages and don't send them to the circle) the rogue templars probably have no qualms slaughtering dalish on sight as either mages or mage sympethizers hiding their clans apostates.
I can see why they'd want to know what's going on with the human hullabaloo.
As i said, she might want to have first-hand experience on what happened here. Or maybe she needs to know as soon as possible because there's something she wants to do (maybe there's an elven gathering shortly after the conference?). Or maybe she does want the elven PC to do something about it. We do know very little about this. Plus, the same can be said about the dwarf.Exactly... which is why I'm having trouble accepting the idea that the Keeper of some random clan in the Free Marches would send either her First or one of her most skilled hunters all the way to Haven simply to take notes and then come back home. That's crazy.
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