Imagine deleting system folder of your Windows. What do you think will happen to the system?
Point is, in the end, it's all just software. Just about everything else has a computer or network of computers in operation. The Normandy would have a plethora of computerized systems that need to be constantly working in order for the ship to so much as take off, let alone break orbit, go into FTL, or keep its occupants alive.
I fail to see your point. The energy wave destroys those nano particles that create husks. Destruction of the Reaper database destroys software. Normandy has a lot of systems like that. That's why it can be seen flying away from the planet in the end. EDI is not essential to the ship's operationPoint is, in the end, it's all just software. Just about everything else has a computer or network of computers in operation. The Normandy would have a plethora of computerized systems that need to be constantly working in order for the ship to so much as take off, let alone break orbit, go into FTL, or keep its occupants alive.
Geth are software. Tali explicitely says it.
EDI is based on Reaper tech. Give an example of a sentient shackled AI not based on the Reaper tech.
And a sentient shackled AI will die in the red explosion. Because it is synthetic life. And the Crucible DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE
What? Read my comment a little beforeAnd a sentient shackled AI will die in the red explosion. Because it is synthetic life. And the Crucible DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE
What is this reaper database, and what actual connection is established between it and the geth? See, the problem is that this stuff is simply made up, and not in the story. That one may think that this is a perfectly logical conclusion and must obviously be the reason for this and that happening really doesn't matter. In all likelihood, these details were simply not thought about by the authors themselves, and the Space Magic™ was used simply to arbitrarily place a cost on the decision.
I don't think everything must be explicitely explained in the game. Not everyone cares about it, a lot of people prefer easy explanations. Forcing tech specifics on them is not a god idea for a game developer. Those interested can always come to that logical conclusion themseves.What is this reaper database, and what actual connection is established between it and the geth? See, the problem is that this stuff is simply made up, and not in the story. That one may think that this is a perfectly logical conclusion and must obviously be the reason for this and that happening really doesn't matter. In all likelihood, these details were simply not thought about by the authors themselves, and the Space Magic™ was used simply to arbitrarily place a cost on the decision.
Mass Effect is a series that was rather fond of giving tech specifics. Unfortunately, Mass Effect is also notorious for violating its own rules as well.
What? Read my comment a little before
What? "EDI is based on Reaper tech?"
Like I said, that's irrelevant.
The geth are not based on reaper tech, code or no. This is the thing that bugs me the most. What the frak is "reaper code" anyway? Is it a material thing, like everyone is hooked up into the grid on Tron now? Does the code actually have some effect on the physical device it's stored in?n While the whole reaper code thing is a fan-made theory based on the coincidence, it makes no motherflippin' sense that the Crucible would be targeting the software alone. That's like a wave of energy that only targets Linux computers. What is this madness? Pass me the ryncol, man.
Reaper code is reaper essence. Legion has teh reaper essence with and sacrifices himself so that all Geth can partake. It's like synthesis when Shepard spreads Shepard essence throughout the galaxy! Space magic!
I'm using Mass Effect AI as the standard.
And, I think Starbrat had a point, even if it's not what I would have done.
I was asking for your solution on those hypothetical issues.
I, for one, think that action would need to be taken in those two scenarios. That's to say, letting "whatever happens happens" is not acceptable. Next off, assuming they've shown not to be able listen to reason and they do plan to wipe out every other species, I would not rule out annihilating some very large percentage of their population nor biologically altering them to some end that diminishes their threat level like the genophage. Personally, I think I prefer the turian solution (bomb) to the salarian one (genophage), but I'm not sure.
Catalyst logic doesn't apply since preserving life is not a requirement here (yes, the Catalyst arguably does preserve life).
I'm not saying synthetics are invincible, or that no organics exist that are in some way superior to an AI. However, (in the Mass Effect universe) they are capable of things beyond the realm of organic life, and the opposite is not true.
Organics have to manually enter things into a computer/machine to get the desired effect. EDI can disable firewalls on a ship and vent it to space before its crew even catches on. You saw what an unstoppable force that rogue VI in Overlord was, and it required Shepard entering cyberspace -- something no ordinary organic can do -- to stop it. They can turn the machines we depend on for many jobs against us, and then we do not have many alternatives to what we've lost. We stopped the Reapers largely because they were not allowed to be the threat they were protecting against, not entirely. They couldn't just steamroll everything because they needed to preserve the sapient species, but they certainly had the ability to wipe the galaxy clean of life and sit on top of it. And organics have shown willing to fight their AI even when they cannot win, twice with the geth, and many civilizations against the Reapers. It just takes one organic to instigate the conflict, and make lots of people (maybe even all of them) really sorry.
I suppose it doesn't matter, though. Our cycle invented some sort of doomsday-device that can kill them all, so we are plenty equipped to save ourselves if that threat manifests again. I mean, defeat is still possible, but there's some sound reason to believe we've advanced far enough to conquer it and will do so (probably want to refine the prototype, though). Even the Catalyst has to admit it by that point ("... my solution will not work anymore.")
Yeah, it required Space Jesus to do it. No ordinary person full of cybernetics could do it. I doubt Tali could have done it. Any Cerberus operative could have done it.
It never goes that kind of detail in the games. In the codex, yes, but it doesn't work for the ending. Nanites are introduced in Horizon mission, geth upgrades - in Rannoch missions.Mass Effect is a series that was rather fond of giving tech specifics. Unfortunately, Mass Effect is also notorious for violating its own rules as well.
And how's that irrelevant? EDI is the only example of a sentient shackled AI in the series and she is based on Reaper tech. I'd say that's quite relevant.What? "EDI is based on Reaper tech?"
Like I said, that's irrelevant.
And how's that irrelevant? EDI is the only example of a sentient shackled AI in the series and she is based on Reaper tech. I'd say that's quite relevant.
No. The Catalyst is also a shackled AI. A schackled AI with a ridiculously broad mandate, but shackled nonetheless. It can't deviate from it's purpose.
p.s. all AI are sentient, shackled or not. Why else cal it an AI? If it's not sentient it's a VI.
Partway through ME2, EDI is given freewill; she is no longer shackled... well maybe in Joker's fantasies 
. I find it interesting to watch her character develop, and I particularly like the paragon route. Also interesting is how sympathetic she becomes to the geth and Legion after Rannoch, if you save both sides. Maybe she finally returned one of his 1.13 million phone calls? Just dinnae tell Joker. He'll get jealous.
Partway through ME2, EDI is given freewill; she is no longer shackled... well maybe in Joker's fantasies
Try destroying the Geth. Guilt-trip to the max.
Love that convo
Try destroying the Geth. Guilt-trip to the max.
Love that convo
Indeed. But I don't destroy the geth very often. Maybe that's why.
Indeed. But I don't destroy the geth very often. Maybe that's why.
Only done so once when I forced myself to play an anti-AI Shepard.
No. The Catalyst is also a shackled AI. A schackled AI with a ridiculously broad mandate, but shackled nonetheless. It can't deviate from it's purpose.
p.s. all AI are sentient, shackled or not. Why else cal it an AI? If it's not sentient it's a VI.
The Catalyst is a whole another matter because we have no idea what technology is used to create it. For all we know, it's Reaper tech as well, seeing as how it recides on the Citadel which is a Reaper creation (using the term Reaper tech, despite Catalyst being created before the Reapers because of a lack of more suitable definition).
AIs are capable of learning and adjusting their actions, VIs are not. However, I view freedom of will as an integral part of sentience and shackles restrict that freedom.
The Catalyst is a whole another matter because we have no idea what technology is used to create it. For all we know, it's Reaper tech as well, seeing as how it recides on the Citadel which is a Reaper creation (using the term Reaper tech, despite Catalyst being created before the Reapers because of a lack of more suitable definition).
AIs are capable of learning and adjusting their actions, VIs are not. However, I view freedom of will as an integral part of sentience and shackles restrict that freedom.
You misunderstand shackles, I think. Schackles mean they can do whatever the hell they want, except certain actions. The Catalyst can't say/think/do: 'well **** this, this task I'm given is impossible. These Leviathan are retards, I'ma go play some video games'. This doesn't preclude learning or even adjusting their actions; the Catalyst tried other solutions before.
And if the Catalyst is Reaper tech than the Reapers are Leviathan tech, just sayin'.
You misunderstand shackles, I think. Schackles mean they can do whatever the hell they want, except certain actions. The Catalyst can't say/think/do: 'well **** this, this task I'm given is impossible. These Leviathan are retards, I'ma go play some video games'. This doesn't preclude learning or even adjusting their actions; the Catalyst tried other solutions before.
And if the Catalyst is Reaper tech than the Reapers are Leviathan tech, just sayin'.
I didn't misunderstand shackles. The limits on the actions they can possibly take are equal to restricting the freedom of will. Sentient AI may do the same thing as for what it was created, but it will do it voluntarily, like EDI with the Normandy.
I put learning there as an example of a difference between a shackled AI and VI. Sentient AI = Unshackled AI > Shackled AI > VI
Leviathans created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers, so yeah, I guess it's Leviathan tech (which is possibly quite similar to the Reaper tech).
Honestly, you think preventing a fully aware, self thinking entity from doing a single thing means it's not sentient?
Is a human incapable of doing math not a sentient human?
Honestly, you think preventing a fully aware, self thinking entity from doing a single thing means it's not sentient?
Is a human incapable of doing math not a sentient human?
Comparing humans to the AI is not going to work here. AIs are created and their creators limit their actions by putting shackles on them. If you can create a human and put limits on his mind that do not allow him to perform certain actions I would not view him as sentient.
This self thinking entity you mention can't even think of the actions blocked by the shackles.
This self thinking entity you mention can't even think of the actions blocked by the shackles.
Eh no. EDI is perfectly aware of what's being blocked.
Is she? "I have a block that prevents me from answering that question" shows her knowledge of the information inside? It's a simple programming matter, if the condition is not met the code under that condition is skipped.Eh no. EDI is perfectly aware of what's being blocked.
Is she? "I have a block that prevents me from answering that question" shows her knowledge of the information inside? It's a simple programming matter, if the condition is not met the code under that condition is skipped.
Then how does she know that unschackling her can make her save the ship?
Or was it just a ploy? 
She knows of possibilities and general idea of the blocked information. It's easily deduced from the condition itself. Notice how she describes her unshackled state right after the attack. It's clear she did not know what exactly would've happened.Then how does she know that unschackling her can make her save the ship?
Or was it just a ploy?
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