35 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

I was thinking about this when I was considering my theory that Dragon Age 2 is Noir.

 

Hawke is a figure who has a off-relationship with the law in the city but "friends on the force" (Aveline), criminal contacts, and an ambiguous moral streak no matter how you choose to play them.

 

He investigates during his time in Kirkwall

* A serial killer plot which combines "the one unsolved case" plot of a cop/Templar, a missing persons case, and a bunch of other Noir tropes.

* Another Serial Killer
* He gets paid often to serve as either a spy or a legbreaker
* Tracking down missing people.
* He has contacts amongst the ethnic groups in the city the regular police don't (Qunari, Elves, ect)

* The powers in charge are willing to let his activities slide so long as they're useful to them and do "favors" like finding the Blood Mage.

Really, all Hawke needs is the Longcoat, Seedy Office, and Hat.

:-)

[themikefest]

I wouldn't say a private investigator. I would just say Hawke was out to make the most for her/himself while helping his mother and brother/sister. And took notice that no one was making any real effort in cleaning up Kirkwall, so Hawke decided to help with that, and ended up getting caught up with events such as the Qunari and the mage/Templar conflict.

[Hydwn]

There are elements of that.  Really, it's sort of a pastiche of different genres.  I hadn't considered film noir, but it does make sense.  

 

Too bad we don't really have the right dialogue options for it.  Along with an olive branch for "peaceful," a laughing mask for "sarcastic," and a gavel for "Aggressive" we need a film reel for film-noir speak

[Willowhugger]

That would have been awesome.

 

I don't think it's literally the case he's a private Detective but I think he invokes a lot of the tropes for it.

PIs don't exist yet in Thedas but if they did, Hawke would probably be the first.

[Hydwn]

That would have been awesome.

 

I don't think it's literally the case he's a private Detective but I think he invokes a lot of the tropes for it.

PIs don't exist yet in Thedas but if they did, Hawke would probably be the first.

 

In the Sherlock Holmes sense, he technically is.  Aveline brings him in one cases the way Lestrade did for Sherlock.

 

He's less like rhe film noir ones in that he doesn't have an office.  More like Sherlock in that he hangs out at home, and every once in awhile gets a call from the stumped police.

[Sifr]

Y'know, I said in the Cullen thread a while ago that I'd been thinking of writing a DA2 fanfic in the noir style, because it fits so perfectly with the characters in the game. I could easily see Hawke, Isabela and Varric being right at home in that setting and Kirkwall is a pretty noir place anyway.

 

Hawke's probably a mixture of a private detective and an occult one (like Harry Dresden). As Varric jokes in "Haunted", being either a mage or growing up in a house filled with them, Hawke's obviously got a lot of familiarity and experience dealing with "weird sh*t".

 

[KaiserShep]

I'd say that Hawke is Kirkwall's deadliest mercenary. Most of what you do is for money, and it generally ends with people dying. Heck you can even destroy the leader of the Red Iron right from the start.

[AutumnWitch]

Mercenary for Hire

[Sifr]

I'd say that Hawke is Kirkwall's deadliest mercenary. Most of what you do is for money, and it generally ends with people dying. Heck you can even destroy the leader of the Red Iron right from the start.

 

Hawke's definitely a fantastic mercenary. It's not even just Meeran, you can taken down Athenril, Flint Company, numerous gangs operating throughout Kirkwall, as well as survive regular run-ins with the Coterie and Carta.

 

As Varric says to Sebastian, Starkhaven doesn't have as many dead people compared to Kirkwall because "they don't have Hawke".

[KaiserShep]

It's no surprise that people would be whispering about Hawke over the course of the first year in Kirkwall. So many dead people. Saemus' take on the matter sums it up perfectly. "Oh Andraste! I don't think I've never seen so many corpses."

[Sifr]

It's no surprise that people would be whispering about Hawke over the course of the first year in Kirkwall. So many dead people. Saemus' take on the matter sums it up perfectly. "Oh Andraste! I don't think I've never seen so many corpses."

 

Do you think that merc groups in Kirkwall eventually start having to get Hawke insurance?

 

"I, the undersigned, agree that it is not the responsibilty of [insert gang], should in the course of my "legitimate" activities for the company, I end up being injured, maimed, frozen, burned, decapitated, defenestrated or blown up by the Champion of Kirkwall".

[Ryzaki]

Do you think that merc groups in Kirkwall eventually start having to get Hawke insurance?

 

"I, the undersigned, agree that it is not the responsibilty of [insert gang], should in the course of my "legitimate" activities for the company, I end up being injured, maimed, frozen, burned, decapitated, defenestrated or blown up by the Champion of Kirkwall".

 

They wouldn't need insurance if they didn't insist on jumping at my Hawke like lemmings cause he walked down the street

[fhs33721]

They wouldn't need insurance if they didn't insist on jumping at my Hawke like lemmings cause he walked down the street

If those Kirkwall mercs would exist in real live they would be downright frightening.

Without any concern for their own lives or any sign of fear they relentlessly throw themselves even at superior opponents and merclessly attack until the last of them falls. They do not retreat, never falter and never give up even when their comrades explode into gory pieces left and right.

You can say about them what you want, but they are no cowards.

[veeia]

OH man, I like this. Now I'm bummed out there wasn't a quest that really played this up. Hawke's character arc really is like a classic noir detective's, especially if you romance Isabela! 

[thats1evildude]

I believe the term you're looking for is Occult Detective. Hawke is actually listed on that page.

[Willowhugger]

If those Kirkwall mercs would exist in real live they would be downright frightening.

Without any concern for their own lives or any sign of fear they relentlessly throw themselves even at superior opponents and merclessly attack until the last of them falls. They do not retreat, never falter and never give up even when their comrades explode into gory pieces left and right.

You can say about them what you want, but they are no cowards.

I maintain Varric threw in the Trash Mobs to spruce the story up.

[Sifr]

They wouldn't need insurance if they didn't insist on jumping at my Hawke like lemmings cause he walked down the street

 

That's because most never bothered to read the insurance policy or bothered going to the tourist information board first.

 

Kirkwall officially adopted a "Beware of the Hawke" policy shortly after the Summerday Incident of '33, where the Kirkwall guard spent the better part of three days cleaning up Lowtown after Hawke wiped out a mercenary company. And it wasn't even on purpose, Hawke was just visiting Gamlen to tell him to stop forwarding his debt notices to them and got caught up in an ambush meant for someone else.

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Noble(wo)man and mercenary hobbyist.

 

 

I am a Hawke fan but one thing I did dislike about him/her was the 1-dimensional nature of the character. Hawke basically solves every problem (every problem!) by killing lots of folks. Could have used some quests/assignments that involved other skills like speech, crafting, investigation, and anything else that would have required more brainpower and less physical might.

[Sifr]

 Noble(wo)man and mercenary hobbyist.

 

 

I am a Hawke fan but one thing I did dislike about him/her was the 1-dimensional nature of the character. Hawke basically solves every problem (every problem!) by killing lots of folks. Could have used some quests/assignments that involved other skills like speech, crafting, investigation, and anything else that would have required more brainpower and less physical might.

 

Gaining the Arishok's respect does require a certain level of politically savvy, but yeah, I wish that we'd had more things like persuade checks in DA2.

[KaiserShep]

 Noble(wo)man and mercenary hobbyist.

 

 

I am a Hawke fan but one thing I did dislike about him/her was the 1-dimensional nature of the character. Hawke basically solves every problem (every problem!) by killing lots of folks. Could have used some quests/assignments that involved other skills like speech, crafting, investigation, and anything else that would have required more brainpower and less physical might.

 

It's funny that the only way to resolve a quest without combat is to basically screw over one of the companions.

[Thermopylae]

I like the way you think, and in the plots Hawk is involved in he does function  like a detective. Against this idea are the lack of a "system" to his investigation and a perceived title or role. You would think after a while, given his involvement with the various powers of the city that they would try to incorporate Hawke into the offices of the city. There should be a point, depending on whether Hawk is antagonistic or affiliative that there is the possibility of some official recognition of his investigative role.

 

Perhaps because it is a medieval society he gets a general title of "Champion", which is all inclusive of his combatant and investigative role. 

Would have preferred more mundane aspects of involvement as well, like functioning as a merchant, thief, aristocrat or military in the Kirkwall city state, with the obvious inventory management and cut scenes of moments of crisis.

 

The whole point of the film Noir was a recognition of issues of modern urban existence, anonymity, even alienation and a certain cynical disengagement and despite its fantasy setting, Dragon Age 2 Kirkwall city setting facilitates all of these features. Certainly Hawk demonstrates cynicism in his renegade responses and cynicism is a appropriate coping mechanism to the nature of Hawk's experiences from the beginning which emphasizes the inhumanity and corruption found at all levels of Kirkwall society. The ideas in Dragon Age 2 had so much potential. Still must remember only a game. 

 

I notice that despite trying not to, I keep using a male pronoun. Ah well.

[FlyingSquirrel]

This is one aspect of DA2 that I have to say throws me off a bit. (I'm a relative newbie to Dragon Age and I'm on my first playthrough of DA2, currently working my way through Act 3.)

 

In other Bioware games that I've played (DAO and the ME trilogy), my character's "baseline" motivations are either pretty well established or left for me to sketch out as I see fit. The Warden can have a wide variety of political and philosophical views, but the underlying goal is clear and makes sense for pretty much any way you want to play the character, in that nobody benefits if Ferelden is overrun by the darkspawn. Similarly, Shepard can have a variety of attitudes about Citadel politics, the genophage, conflicts with the batarians, etc., but is always an elite soldier trying to stave off an existential threat to the galaxy.

 

I sometimes find it hard to understand Hawke, however. She's a refugee fleeing Ferelden and her family is living in poverty at first, and I'm playing her as generally pro-underdog and resentful of authoritarian systems because of how the family has had to hide Bethany for her entire life. But it's still a big step from disapproving of the status quo to repeatedly risking your own life in an attempt to radically change it, and sometimes I feel like there isn't a clear reason for Hawke to do that other than "the game won't progress otherwise."

 

And is it meant to be seen as morally problematic or illegal when the quests turn violent? I'm not sure. I sometimes bring Aveline along when the quests involve dealing with criminals as opposed to monsters and demons, figuring that it's more like helping with a law enforcement operation in that case, but I did end up skipping a quest when Aveline objected to it and, as a result, never got to recruit Fenris. It feels like I can't really explore everything the game has to offer unless I'm willing to play Hawke as a full-scale vigilante and/or kind of greedy.

 

It's like Hawke is simultaneously kind of vague as a character - I don't feel like the dialogue choices are really bringing out her attitudes and personality as clearly as with the Warden or Shepard - and a little less controllable, in that some of the important quests just kind of get thrown at you without a clear justification for Hawke's interest or involvement in the first place.

[Andreas Amell]

I get into so many street battles it's difficult to emphasize the mystery parts of Kirkwall. The secret history was a great tease but it doesn't develp into a sub-plot for the mage/templar war. If we discovered the city was cursed from human sacrifice that would heightened things differently.

 

But if I were to compare Origins to the great fantasy adventure, then I consider DA:2 like living in Gotham City. I would have liked it if there were more quests to help the refugees of Ferelden and the poor residents of Lowtown and Darktown. As a fellow refugee I would have liked to deal with their problems of surviving in Kirkwall. When King Alistair sends ships for returning Fereldens, the Mine Massacre story could have tied into that for miners who might want to go back or maybe even scheme to steal from you and Hubert.

 

All these missed story opportnities It would have better shaped my opinion on the mage/templar conflict. As it is now, I'd rather agree with the Arishok and have Kirkwall burned to the ground. Having Bethany in the Circle is the only reason I'd side with the Mages in the end. Being related to the Hero Ferelden (if you chose human mage in Origins) doesn't really affect your interaction with other characters - when it should.

[KaiserShep]

I would have loved to be able to steal from Hubert. If the game allowed, I would have totally screwed him over and left him to rot.

[Willowhugger]

 

I sometimes find it hard to understand Hawke, however. She's a refugee fleeing Ferelden and her family is living in poverty at first, and I'm playing her as generally pro-underdog and resentful of authoritarian systems because of how the family has had to hide Bethany for her entire life. But it's still a big step from disapproving of the status quo to repeatedly risking your own life in an attempt to radically change it, and sometimes I feel like there isn't a clear reason for Hawke to do that other than "the game won't progress otherwise."

 

Hawke is a character which is a bit TOO defined in some respects because, no matter what, you can't really play a Lawful Good law abider. No matter what, Hawke is Chaotic Good or Neutral it seems.