673 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

So why did the Griffons go extinct end up going extinct after the Fourth Blight and not any of the other 300 years of collective blight before that?

[Spectre slayer]

So why did the Griffons go extinct end up going extinct after the Fourth Blight and not any of the other 300 years of collective blight before that?

Spoiler

The grey wardens put themthrough the joining, used blood magic on them which made them very aggressive killing machines that don't stop until they're dead, that would attack friend or foe and extremely uncontrollable without blood magic.

It also caused a disease which also had some nasty side effects, aggressiveness, madness, suicidal attacks, attacking and killing each other and other people.

Not mention the blights before, and the wardens started killing some of them off aswell.

[Hellion Rex]

So why did the Griffons go extinct end up going extinct after the Fourth Blight and not any of the other 300 years of collective blight before that?

Because a woman used blood magic to force them through the Joining, and ended up infecting the entire race with the Taint.

[Medhia_Nox]

It's strange that some people say it was: "Totally worth it."

 

No - it was disgusting and a horrible example of total disregard for a species to the point of driving it to extinction.

 

I considered the Warden's questionable - at best - before, now I think they're kinda filthy.  

[Willowhugger]

It's strange that some people say it was: "Totally worth it."

 

No - it was disgusting and a horrible example of total disregard for a species to the point of driving it to extinction.

 

I considered the Warden's questionable - at best - before, now I think they're kinda filthy.  

 

Yes, it was.

 

And every single man, woman, and child in the Dragon Age is alive because of it.

[HiroVoid]

I wonder what Gryphon breasts taste like....

[Lulupab]

It's strange that some people say it was: "Totally worth it."
 
No - it was disgusting and a horrible example of total disregard for a species to the point of driving it to extinction.
 
I considered the Warden's questionable - at best - before, now I think they're kinda filthy.

You need to emphasize some points from WOT and The Calling to understand them. Before their order came to being Thedas lost every single battle against the Darkspawn and that lasted for 250 years. Do you realize how many died, poor dwarves

It was wrong to do it though and it was just a single woman not the whole wardens. There are things that the grey wardens get credit for wholly such as openly allowing blood magic. But this act was done by a single person to prevent the species from dying to taint and ended up messing up the whole thing. Grey warden Griffons would have been very efficient, immune to the taint like their masters. But many of them would have been kept normal for breeding, but alas it didn't work out that way.

[Hellion Rex]

It's strange that some people say it was: "Totally worth it."

 

No - it was disgusting and a horrible example of total disregard for a species to the point of driving it to extinction.

 

I considered the Warden's questionable - at best - before, now I think they're kinda filthy.  

Desperate times call for very desperate, insane measures. The Wardens of old were very, very questionable in their methods. Yes, it worked, but only at great cost.

That said, I believe Isseya made the right call by hiding the truth from the Wardens, and at the very least made up for her role in their extinction by protecting the last eggs.

[veeia]

Its hard to say if its big tie-in reading for the game because we don't know what the Warden storyline in DA:I will be. There are definitely things in Last Flight that could come into play in the game. Or it could just be peripheral to it.

That being said, I think everyone should read it. As a novel, its absolutely the highest quality Dragon Age book wrt to prose and pacing. Probably the only one that really feels like it could be interesting to people who don't read the series, because while the frame narrative does tie into a players understanding more, the historical narrative is very standalone and doesn't have any awkward exposition dumps. And for people who do love the series, its a very immersive exploration of the blight and the sacrifices made by the Wardens as well as has some very interesting insights into magic.

[Willowhugger]

It was wrong to do it though and it was just a single woman not the whole wardens. There are things that the grey wardens get credit for wholly such as openly allowing blood magic. But this act was done by a single person to prevent the species from dying to taint and ended up messing up the whole thing. Grey warden Griffons would have been very efficient, immune to the taint like their masters. But many of them would have been kept normal for breeding, but alas it didn't work out that way.

That's deeply unfair to Isseya as she wanted to never do it again after the first event.

She was then ORDERED to do so repeatedly.

 

The Wardens chose to do this as a whole.

She was against it.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Eluvianus Rex: So, you would say the same thing if we did this to... I dunno... the elves?

[PhroXenGold]

It's strange that some people say it was: "Totally worth it."

 

No - it was disgusting and a horrible example of total disregard for a species to the point of driving it to extinction.

 

I considered the Warden's questionable - at best - before, now I think they're kinda filthy.  

 

If the Blight had won, the griffons would be dead anyway. At least this way their deaths served a purpose.

[The Elder King]

You need to emphasize some points from WOT and The Calling to understand them. Before their order came to being Thedas lost every single battle against the Darkspawn and that lasted for 250 years. Do you realize how many died, poor dwarves
It was wrong to do it though and it was just a single woman not the whole wardens. There are things that the grey wardens get credit for wholly such as openly allowing blood magic. But this act was done by a single person to prevent the species from dying to taint and ended up messing up the whole thing. Grey warden Griffons would have been very efficient, immune to the taint like their masters. But many of them would have been kept normal for breeding, but alas it didn't work out that way.

The first Blight started in 800 TE and ended in 992 TE. It lasted 192 years (http://dragonage.wik...ki/First_Blight).

[Hellion Rex]

@Eluvianus Rex: So, you would say the same thing if we did this to... I dunno... the elves?

..talk about a loaded question, man. In this hypothetical scenario, for what specific reason would we invoke such a magical extinction? The Wardens of old did this to stop a Blight. I would need at least a reason that is similar in weight before even thinking about such powerful measures being taken.

[Medhia_Nox]

@PhroXenGold:  And we know, for a fact, that this Blight was unwinnable without driving a species to extinction (horribly btw) - how?

The end cannot justify the means - as there is no end to anything - just "what's next".  

[HiroVoid]

@Eluvianus Rex: So, you would say the same thing if we did this to... I dunno... the elves?

Is this like saying there's an equivalent to killing every person of an ethnicity and killing a species of shark?

[Medhia_Nox]

@eluvianus rex:  Well, simple - if the elves could have been used to stop that Blight?

Or, if only driving the elves into extinction can we close the Veil.

 

You're totally cool with that?

 

[Hellion Rex]

The first Blight started in 800 TE and ended in 992 TE. It lasted 192 years (http://dragonage.wik...ki/First_Blight).

God damn, I was thinking it was only a century. I had forgotten that it was nearly 2 centuries. I guess this was how we figured out the body hopping thing. Someone would kill it, and then it would escape.

[The Elder King]

@PhroXenGold:  And we know, for a fact, that this Blight was unwinnable without driving a species to extinction (horribly btw) - how?
The end cannot justify the means - as there is no end to anything - just "what's next".

As far as I've read here, the Wardens were losing against the darskpawn.

[Lulupab]

That's deeply unfair to Isseya as she wanted to never do it again after the first event.
She was then ORDERED to do so repeatedly.

The Wardens chose to do this as a whole.
She was against it.

Well being in the wardens one should know if you propose something like that the leader will want more. But it was a bit unfair to Isseya..

The first Blight started in 800 TE and ended in 992 TE. It lasted 192 years (http://dragonage.wik...ki/First_Blight).

Right.

[veeia]

Isseya's dilemma was interesting because it does remind me of the anxieties of modern day scientific ethics. She accidentally discovered something that was very useful and also very dangerous. To her as a "researcher" the benefits did not outweighs the cost, but because she was working for an organization who cared more about their goals, her concerns were overridden.

You could def make some parallels to cultural anxieties about pharmaceuticals, for example, right down to animal testing.

...of course that would just be as a thought experiment, because the parallels are not strong enough to make big statements. No medical research currently has the same stakes as Isseya's.

[Hellion Rex]

@eluvianus rex:  Well, simple - if the elves could have been used to stop that Blight?

Or, if only driving the elves into extinction can we close the Veil.

 

You're totally cool with that?

 

No, because dooming an actual sentient race, one that truly lives and speaks is wholly different ball game than using those methods on griffins. Yes, both are terrible, but I find using it on the elves to be a much, much worse crime.

[The Elder King]

God damn, I was thinking it was only a century. I had forgotten that it was nearly 2 centuries. I guess this was how we figured out the body hopping thing. Someone would kill it, and then it would escape.

Yup. I think it was stated in the codex that Dumat was killed multiple times but he returned.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Eluvianus Rex:  I see.  Scientifically, there's no greater value on a sapient species.  

 

I won't pursue the line further as I understand it is not a popular one (and often drives people into irrational rages at questioning the relevance of their race over that of a gnat). 

[AresKeith]

God damn, I was thinking it was only a century. I had forgotten that it was nearly 2 centuries. I guess this was how we figured out the body hopping thing. Someone would kill it, and then it would escape.

 

That and trying to search for a way to effectively fight Darkspawn