16 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurt M.]

...but I haven't managed to find them anywhere, even with Search, so...

 

Thing is that I'm a bit undecided about which one to choose. I'm a fan of "weapon damage over everything" (thus Adrenaline Rush is favored here), but Marksman may win in terms of DPS (the weapons I'm interested to use with are the Harrier and the Saber. And to a lesser extent, the Venom and the Acolyte).

 

...either that or I did it wrong choosing a Soldier in my latest playthought, and should have chosen instead an Infiltrator so I could use Tactical Cloak + Marksman at the same time (IF they can be used together, unlike Adren Rush and Marksman. But I haven't seen on Wikia anything about that)..

 

So, who's really the king of weapon damage in Single Player*? Adren. Rush? Marksman? Infiltrator? Soldier? Did anyone did the numbers?

 

 

 

*Also having in mind weapon damage from other sources, like innate ammo powers, or class powers.

 

P.D: Also having in mind that I could have Energy Drain as a Bonus Power if I go Soldier, something I couldn't have if I choose Marksman. Or better yet, Warp Ammo (for extra weapon damage).

[Vazgen]

Isn't the Saber a single-shot weapon? I'm not sure how Marksman will work with it. Saber has a little delay between shots, Marksman should theoretically decrease that, probably letting you to use Saber like Mattock. It has great accuracy, so the accuracy bonus will not be of much help. The Saber has quite a recoil, you might need Stability Dampener. I'd personally pair it with High-Velocity Barrel, since it's already quite heavy. Don't have Harrier, so can't comment on that.

As to what will be better, Adrenaline Rush or Marksman, I think it depends on your playstyle. AR has time dilation which helps to stay out of cover for longer - useful when leading the attack. Marksman gives better DPS but it also requires you to stay out of cover for long - would work best if squadmates are in the front tanking damage (Vega can be a great tank).

 

Quoting Wikia

Marksman can be activated during Tactical Cloak with the Bonus Power evolution; however, the cooldown of Marksman will still go into effect after the duration of Marksman is over. This can be circumvented by canceling Tactical Cloak (by shooting) so you can use Tactical Cloak again before the Marksman cooldown kicks in, thus allowing for constant active Marksman if managed properly.

IMO, Marksman kinda ruins the whole idea of Tactical Cloak - to get one powerful shot without repercussion. You need to shoot more than once with Saber (although it should one-hit kill Assault Troopers that way)

 

I'd personally go for a Soldier with Marksman, since I prefer to fight from distance and have my squadmates taking the bulk of damage and Soldiers have the best weight capacity, thus allowing you to use powers (Marksman in particular) more frequently

[RedCaesar97]

I'll do my best to answer your questions.
 

...but I haven't managed to find them anywhere, even with Search, so...
 
Thing is that I'm a bit undecided about which one to choose. I'm a fan of "weapon damage over everything" (thus Adrenaline Rush is favored here), but Marksman may win in terms of DPS (the weapons I'm interested to use with are the Harrier and the Saber. And to a lesser extent, the Venom and the Acolyte).

 
In my view, Adrenaline Rush is better than Marksman since it has more utility than Marksman.
 
Marksman can increase accuracy, stability, and rate of fire. This may be good for some weapons, but very pointless for others.
Adrenaline Rush slows down time, increases weapon damage, and instantly reloads weapons when activated, while providing evolutions that can increase damage reduction, increase melee, boost your shields, and/or allow to use one offensive power while still under the effects of Adrenaline Rush.
 
In terms of the weapons you are interested in, Adrenaline Rush is better for the Harrier since it is already pretty stable and accurate, and Marksman will actually be worse.
 
Saber will perform about the same I think. Marksman will increase its rate of fire and accuracy, but you will lose a lot of survivability I think.
 
By the way, here is a video by Xariann showing the Saber with both Adrenaline Rush and Marksman. Watch it and draw your own conclusions.
 

...either that or I did it wrong choosing a Soldier in my latest playthought, and should have chosen instead an Infiltrator so I could use Tactical Cloak + Marksman at the same time (IF they can be used together, unlike Adren Rush and Marksman. But I haven't seen on Wikia anything about that)..

You can activate Marksman under Cloak. Fire a while (maybe it still is?) it was considered one of top bonus powers for a weapon-focused Infiltrator. With the way Tactical cloak cooldown works, Infiltrator can have Marksman activated almost indefinitely.

 

So, who's really the king of weapon damage in Single Player*? Adren. Rush? Marksman? Infiltrator? Soldier? Did anyone did the numbers?
 
 
 
*Also having in mind weapon damage from other sources, like innate ammo powers, or class powers.
 
P.D: Also having in mind that I could have Energy Drain as a Bonus Power if I go Soldier, something I couldn't have if I choose Marksman.

They sort of break even, if only because you can kill things so fast with all classes. There was a time when Infiltrator was probably better, but Soldier still had native Incendiary Ammo with the Explosive Burst evolution.

All numbers would be theoretical anyway, as in-game it probably would not be noticeable at all.

[Kurt M.]

Saber + Adren. Rush + all the bonuses from Combat Mastery + Warp Ammo improved with 40% Ammo Powers damage from Combat Mastery pretty much seems to be a one-shot-kill in many, if not most cases, thus negating a bit the usefulness of Marksman. Anyway, I've seen videos of people using the Saber with Marksman, and it doesn't even gets close to the Mattock's rate of fire (if your fingers are up to it).

 

As I said, I prefer raw weapon damage. I'm a big fan of the "best defense is a good offense" approach

[RedCaesar97]

Of possible interest to you: Shotguns + Marksman by Athenau.

[Kurt M.]

All numbers would be theoretical anyway, as in-game it probably would not be noticeable at all.

 

I think that, too. In fact, technically Tactical Cloak does more damage than Adren. Rush, but it gets compensated by the fact that Combat Mastery does more damage than Operational Mastery. Then again Marksman offers a 20% extra Headshot Damage that adds up to all your headshot bonuses, including your ammo' ones. But Combat Mastery offers a stunning 40% extra ammo damage to all ammo powers.

 

That last one is what wins the match in terms of raw damage. Although Marksman still offers more rate of fire and stability.....arg, I don't know xP

 

 

Of possible interest to you: Shotguns + Marksman by Athenau.

 

I won't be using any shotgun except the Venom. And Marksman is probably useless with that.

[RedCaesar97]

I recall a topic where a couple of players (capn233 and Drayce333 I think) argued about whether Marksman or Adrenaline Rush was better and they posted videos trying to back up their points, but it was probably part of another thread and not a Marksman vs Adrenaline Rush thread explicitly.

[Kurt M.]

I recall a topic where a couple of players (capn233 and Drayce333 I think) argued about whether Marksman or Adrenaline Rush was better and they posted videos trying to back up their points, but it was probably part of another thread and not a Marksman vs Adrenaline Rush thread explicitly.

 

Well, I'm basically trying to find which one has the best DPS: Either a Marksman build, or a non-Marksman' one. The key pretty much it's in the rate of fire, and nothing else. I can always improve accuracy through weapon mods.

 

Right now, a Soldier build with Warp ammo seems to be the king of raw damage. But I don't know if a Marksman build can beat it.

[Vazgen]

By the way, here is a video by Xariann showing the Saber with both Adrenaline Rush and Marksman. Watch it and draw your own conclusions.

This video shows what I mentioned in my comment. Marksman works great when holding position when having something else to draw enemy fire (Tali's drone, Vega). It also lasts longer. Adrenaline Rush is great when charging the enemy, allowing you basically free shots, but with Saber's slow rate of fire the cost of a miss is high. It also has low recharge time. 

I stay with my choice, Marksman seems to work better, at least with the Saber. I'd personally go for duration instead of headshot bonus, would be a better trade-off for 4.8 second recharge speed and you will not have to concern yourself with hitting enemies in the head, using the Marksman bonus more.

From the video it looks that Marksman has better DPS. It takes three shots in one second with Marksman and two shots in 2 seconds with Adrenaline Rush to kill an Assault Trooper (the first one in Marksman part and the one with missed concussive shot in the second part).

[RedCaesar97]

Also, you cannot do completely stupid stuff like this with Marksman.

[Kurt M.]

This video shows what I mentioned in my comment. Marksman works great when holding position when having something else to draw enemy fire (Tali's drone, Vega). It also lasts longer. Adrenaline Rush is great when charging the enemy, allowing you basically free shots, but with Saber's slow rate of fire the cost of a miss is high. It also has low recharge time. 

I stay with my choice, Marksman seems to work better, at least with the Saber. I'd personally go for duration instead of headshot bonus, would be a better trade-off for 4.8 second recharge speed and you will not have to concern yourself with hitting enemies in the head, using the Marksman bonus more.

From the video it looks that Marksman has better DPS. It takes three shots in one second with Marksman and two shots in 2 seconds with Adrenaline Rush to kill an Assault Trooper (the first one in Marksman part and the one with missed concussive shot in the second part).

 

The Saber can be reload-cancelled, and anyway Adren. Rush also recharges it automatically, so I don't worry about that.

 

I repeat: I'm only concerned about the DPS. And a Marksman-less Saber definitely can shoot two times in less than 2 seconds. I've been using the Saber for years, so believe me I know it's timing  Besides, we don't know the complete builds he's using, and Disruptor Ammo isn't my first ammo choice by far.

[Vazgen]

The Saber can be reload-cancelled, and anyway Adren. Rush also recharges it automatically, so I don't worry about that.

 

I repeat: I'm only concerned about the DPS.

Uhm...

 

1sec - 3 shots

2sec - 2 shots 

 

Edit: You have to look over pros and cons of each power.

Adrenaline Rush

Pros: more damage in one shot, slow fire rate (doesn't matter if you apply all the weapon damage bonuses and mods), 3 seconds recharge speed, slowed time

Cons: low duration (only 5 seconds), not many shots in that brief window

Marksman

Pros: can land more shots in a small amount of time, lasts longer, seems to kill enemies faster (video)

Cons: slow recharge speed (4,8 seconds), exposure to enemy fire

[Kurt M.]

Uhm...

 

1sec - 3 shots

2sec - 2 shots 

 

More like 3 shots in 2 seconds, or 1,5 at most. It starts at 00:17 and ends near at 00:19

 

That makes it an extra shot every 2 seconds compared to a normal Saber.

[Vazgen]

More like 3 shots in 2 seconds, or 1,5 at most. It starts at 00:17 and ends near at 00:19

 

That makes it an extra shot every 2 seconds compared to a normal Saber.

As you can see the target is already dead. But let's say 1.5. 

3/1.5=2

2/2=1

[capn233]

...but I haven't managed to find them anywhere, even with Search, so...

 

 

I recall a topic where a couple of players (capn233 and Drayce333 I think) argued about whether Marksman or Adrenaline Rush was better...

 

I think it was some sort of bonus power thread.

 

Anyway I guess I will answer the questions as far as my preference:

 

*If you are into theorycrafting, Marksman will give better DPS with most automatics than Adrenaline Rush.  You could consider the ROF bonus a "multiplicative" damage bonus.  Adrenaline Rush has a mediocre additive weapon damage bonus, but it is better than nothing.  Marksman does not increase stability (neither does ARush for that matter).

 

*As above, you can use Marksman under Tactical Cloak, which was a blunder in game design.  You cannot use it under Adrenaline Rush since the "Bonus Power" evolution of ARush specifies an "offensive power" which is another way of saying "direct damage power."

 

*Infiltrator should do better pure weapon damage than a Soldier.  Soldier will do a whole lot more ammo damage when you take Incendiary Explosive Burst and pair it with a high ROF weapon.  Infiltrator can probably make it up if he takes James or Marksman.

 

*Infiltrator has two different base damage modifiers for sniper rifles ("multiplicative bonuses"), TacCloak Rank 6 and SR Damage in passive.  The only thing that can keep Soldier somewhat competitive is ARush's free reload.

 

*A lot of people act like the Saber requires Marksman to be decent in MP, but I am not one of those people.  If you recognize that you cannot fire it at max ROF against smaller targets, it is fine.  The main benefit of Marksman with the Saber in my mind is damage vs large targets.  In SP I do not use the Saber as much on Soldier as I do on the HSoldier in MP largely because the best configuration is Extended Mag, Extended Barrel and AP ammo.  If you run Marksman in SP on a Soldier to use the Saber, you will want to run a Mag / Piercing combo.  I don't know if that will lead to requiring extra headshots or not.

 

*If it wasn't pointed out, or you didn't realize it, Marksman in SP never gained the free reload when you activate it. This is a major reason why in practice I do not feel like it offers a lot of benefit over Adrenaline Rush in SP.

 

*You can't fire an offensive power under Marksman, which is Adrenaline Rush's biggest advantage (or second biggest advantage behind free reload).  If you care to make up the damage with ARush, you can do so by taking Proximity Mine as the bonus with Damage Taken and fire it with each Adrenaline Rush cycle.  You still will not have as good stat DPS, but I don't think the killing speed difference is significant enough in SP given their lower HP pools relative to Gold MP.

 

*There are several weapons I would almost never consider for Marksman over Adrenaline Rush in SP.  Mostly weapons where magazine size is limited and they either already do significant damage, have high accuracy, and or are semiautomatic with good rates of fire to begin with (click speed limited).  The one exception that may seem to fit those criteria, but is absurd under Marksman, is the Raider.

 

Anyway in a vacuum it is hard to recommend one over the other.  My point of view is that Marksman isn't worth taking on the Soldier in SP unless you are simply taking it for the sake of running a Marksman Soldier.  I do not find a lot of utility in trying to find the absolute maximum stat DPS build since SP is much more skewed towards trash mobs.

[Vazgen]

Isn't the Soldier the best class to use Marksman, given the low reliance on powers? Focus on ammo powers, Fitness, Combat Mastery and grenades, combined with something like Saber + Marksman can make short work of any enemy. It will allow to constantly suppress enemy with assault rifle fire, to steadily push the frontline back and eventually break it.

[capn233]

Isn't the Soldier the best class to use Marksman, given the low reliance on powers?

 

Infiltrator is the best class for Marksman since it works under Cloak.

 

Whether or not you rely on your active powers is more of a play style or build decision rather than a class decision though.

 

For example, I could put Marksman on a Sentinel and level Tech Armor, grenades, passives.

 

Anyway, I am not saying Marksman is bad or would not work on a Soldier.  It would work find, especially combined with the right weapon.  I personally would not be interested in running it (even though I did do a run as an "ME1 Infiltrator where I replaced Cloak with Marksman).