122 réponses à ce sujet

[bazzag]

I think Bioware are more streetwise now. Maybe in part due to the huge love of femshep in Mass effect (it was due to that community that femshep actually got a deault appearance in ME3, as opposed to preset no.1)

[nici2412]

 

 

 

I don't even think the issue is that Geralt is a dude, even as a women she would still be the most bland character ever.

 

And I'm not disagreeing with you, there's no reason the female inquisitor shouldn't be on the box, or have alternate box art. And get more than one trailer, but some progress is being made, and with any luck that trend will continue.

I think the problem here is that people should stop talking about characters they how no clue about. Play both games, read all 8 books and maybe you will realize that Geralt is one of the deepest protagonists out there. Maybe you have mistaken him with shephard/hawke?

[tirnoney]

I can relate to the OP on this.  It was a period of illness that caused me to buy a ps3 and try to rekindle an interest in games that died back in 1996 (ish) with Duke Nukem 3D.  I liked combat games, but I just got tired of the heavy macho vibe that most of them seemed to run on.  I really didn't know if I'd find any games I'd like this time around but I was so horribly bored sitting in the house incapable of doing anything strenuous.

 

I bought Skyrim and Dragon Age: Origins on the recommendation of a friend who said I could create a female character.  That naturally led me to investigate other RPGs where I could play as a female protagonist.  I found it to be a non-trivial task.  It often required reading quite a bit into the Wikipedia page for a game before I found out that I couldn't play a female protagonist and sometimes even Wikipedia didn't enlighten me on the subject.  Would it really kill them to put it somewhere on the box or at least in the description on Amazon and other retailers websites?

 

The upshot of this is that I've got a whole stack of games I've played for a few hours before getting bored.  I'm nearly 40 and frankly I don't have the time or the energy to research every game that comes out.  I've also been burned a few times by misleading and otherwise obfuscated marketing that doesn't tell me what I need to know before I hand over my money.  At the moment I'm in the position of having money to spend on games but only Bioware and Bethesda seem to be making ones I like.  And neither of them have done a stellar job of advertising the fact I can role a female character.  

[PsychoBlonde]

You didn't buy a game because you thought the main character had to me a man?

 

You said you were older than 30, shouldn't things like that not matter to you at this point? I mean there are a lot of good games out there where you can't play as a woman. Heck some games you can't even play as a human. If the story is good and the characters are well done shouldn't that be all that matters?

I don't enjoy playing as male characters, either.  Why should it "not matter".  Heck, as you get older you should get MORE picky about what you spend your limited time and money on.  I play (and quite enjoy) a few games where I have to play as a male character (Gothic, Prince of Persia, the first Fable), but I would NEVER play The Witcher.  It's one thing to be stuck playing a guy, it's another to be stuck playing a womanizing d-bag of a guy who collects cards of his sexual conquests.

I also like to customize my character, and games where you can't pick genders usually don't let you customize to any great degree, either.

If a game has a major feature I'm not fond of (and the character you spend the ENTIRE GAME looking at and listening to is a MAJOR feature), it has to be SPECTACULAR in some other area before I'll play it--and the number of games that actually manage to be SPECTACULAR at something I enjoy is rather small.

[PsychoBlonde]

I think Bioware are more streetwise now. Maybe in part due to the huge love of femshep in Mass effect (it was due to that community that femshep actually got a deault appearance in ME3, as opposed to preset no.1)

I was literally )( that close to not buying Mass Effect because I thought Shepard was a male-only character.  Granted, I didn't play ME 2 or 3, but I enjoyed ME.  But I almost didn't buy it.  IIRC the same thing went for Jade Empire (which I adored).  It was not very clear on either of those games that they weren't pure action games with a set protagonist.

[chance52]

I don't enjoy playing as male characters, either.  Why should it "not matter".  Heck, as you get older you should get MORE picky about what you spend your limited time and money on.  I play (and quite enjoy) a few games where I have to play as a male character (Gothic, Prince of Persia, the first Fable), but I would NEVER play The Witcher.  It's one thing to be stuck playing a guy, it's another to be stuck playing a womanizing d-bag of a guy who collects cards of his sexual conquests.

I also like to customize my character, and games where you can't pick genders usually don't let you customize to any great degree, either.

If a game has a major feature I'm not fond of (and the character you spend the ENTIRE GAME looking at and listening to is a MAJOR feature), it has to be SPECTACULAR in some other area before I'll play it--and the number of games that actually manage to be SPECTACULAR at something I enjoy is rather small.

 

I feel like I explained myself in great detail in this thread across several posts so if people still feel like ignoring my explanation for what I meant and respond to a point I'm not making it really is not my fault you don't understand my point.

 

As for the Witcher sex cards, stacked all together it counts for maybe 2 minutes of the entire game and they already said it was a complete mistake the way it was executed in the game.  From a interview last year

 

"Maciej Szcześnik of CDProjektRED, the company behind The Witcher and the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077, took the stage today at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco to discuss the creative process and problems he encounters when designing games. The talk was insightful for developers working under constant deadlines and handling the creative pressure, but he also offered some insight into the company's successes and failures.

 

File those "sex cards" from the first game under failure. He discussed how the idea came from wanting to illustrate The Witcher's romances, hoping the cards would cement a deeper connection. The team wanted the cards to look like hand-drawn paintings, something more classical. The problem? When players got their hands on the game, it turned into a "collect them all minigame" more than the deep romantic connection. "That was quite embarrassing," Szcześnik said, "Not what we had planned." He noted if the team had thought through the consequences, maybe this reaction could have been avoided. It was a great lesson."

 

If the sex cards are all you are basing your dislike of the character and the series on well that's your right to do so.  You would be wrong as he isn't written that way but heck, lets look at everyone who defended Mass Effect's naked Liara/Ashley ass to that one sided, blown way out of proportion by Fox News, 'news story' about how ME was pornographic.  Sometimes when people don't really play the game and only hear one thing that is blown out of proportion they end up hating something that isn't really an issue in the game itself.

[Nayawk]

Put me in the pile that tried the Witcher games and just couldn't get into them, terrible gameplay added to the fact I found the main characters visual design just unappealing put a stop to that. 

 

I'm not anti male characters, I've played a ton of them, some of them are great characters, some of them are only passable but the gameplay makes up for their shortcomings and some I hold very close to my heart (Altair I'm looking at you) but in the end there is always a slight disconnect. If the game has roleplaying elements then that disconnect becomes even more important.  So yes I will look for games that allow me to narrow that disconnect as much as possible. 

 

Bioware has been doing much better with their marketing, so the complaints in this thread probably aren't really aimed at them specifically but more at the games industry in general. 

[Knight_47K]

Funny, as that is the #1 thing I look for when I'm considering purchasing a game

 

So you buy a game based on the fact whether the protagonist is a giver or a receiver... and the story or gameplay is not your first priority.

 

 

 

Nothing to say really, good luck with that.

[Palidane]

Funny, as that is the #1 thing I look for when I'm considering purchasing a game

No offense intended, but I've never understood this sentiment. It's not just you, I've heard several other people on the forums say they don't really play video games, or enjoy RPG's or whatever, but they play Bioware games because they get to play as a homosexual or a female. But the thing is, Dragon Age has almost nothing to do with being gay or a women. In fact, I bet only like 3% of the game, max, changes based on your sexuality or gender. The rest is a mix of killing people and taking their stuff and an epic fantasy story about saving the world from *insert cataclysm here*. I mean, would people really play a 50 hour game that's 35 hours of combat they slog through and 14 hours of story they aren't interested in for the one hour when the world recognizes they are gay?

 

Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it.

[Neon Rising Winter]

No offense intended, but I've never understood this sentiment. It's not just you, I've heard several other people on the forums say they don't really play video games, or enjoy RPG's or whatever, but they play Bioware games because they get to play as a homosexual or a female. But the thing is, Dragon Age has almost nothing to do with being gay or a women. In fact, I bet only like 3% of the game, max, changes based on your sexuality or gender. The rest is a of mix killing people and taking their stuff and an epic fantasy story about saving the world from *insert cataclysm here*. I mean, would people really play a 50 hour game that's 35 hours of combat they slog through and 14 hours of story they aren't interested in for the one hour when the world recognizes they are gay?
 
Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it.

Consider it from your own perspective. Let's say you enjoyed RPGs and liked a little romantic dalliance as part of the story. However in every game when it came time for your protagonist to enjoy this encounter it was always some strapping and well endowed young gentleman leaping on him. Someone then suggests, you know what, maybe it would be an idea if your protagonist could also enjoy the attentions of a woman. Would your response be, no it doesn't matter, I'm good with what I've got or would it be, yeah that'd be nice, I think I should have the option?

[Lady Nuggins]

No offense intended, but I've never understood this sentiment. It's not just you, I've heard several other people on the forums say they don't really play video games, or enjoy RPG's or whatever, but they play Bioware games because they get to play as a homosexual or a female. But the thing is, Dragon Age has almost nothing to do with being gay or a women. In fact, I bet only like 3% of the game, max, changes based on your sexuality or gender. The rest is a mix of killing people and taking their stuff and an epic fantasy story about saving the world from *insert cataclysm here*. I mean, would people really play a 50 hour game that's 35 hours of combat they slog through and 14 hours of story they aren't interested in for the one hour when the world recognizes they are gay?

 

Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it.

 

I like the idea of getting to play an epic fantasy story while also getting to play as somebody who is not straight and not male.  I don't want a game focused strictly on gay content, I want a game that lets me play as gay while I save the world.  

 

When you never get to do that, the message is "you can only be a hero if you temporarily pretend that you are a straight man."

[Shinobu]

No offense intended, but I've never understood this sentiment. It's not just you, I've heard several other people on the forums say they don't really play video games, or enjoy RPG's or whatever, but they play Bioware games because they get to play as a homosexual or a female. But the thing is, Dragon Age has almost nothing to do with being gay or a women. In fact, I bet only like 3% of the game, max, changes based on your sexuality or gender. The rest is a mix of killing people and taking their stuff and an epic fantasy story about saving the world from *insert cataclysm here*. I mean, would people really play a 50 hour game that's 35 hours of combat they slog through and 14 hours of story they aren't interested in for the one hour when the world recognizes they are gay?

 

Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it.

 

I like video games, so I can't speak for those who don't, but for me it's not about being recognized as a woman by the NPCs 100% of the time. That would be tedious. What I enjoy is playing as a female character and having the world react as if a female hero is perfectly normal. Doing all the things a male protagonist does as a female is reward enough.

 

My two favorite lines from ME2:

 

Grunt: Shepard is my battlemaster; she has no equal.

 

Shepard: Why don't we skip to the tiebreaker? We could test your reach... and my flexibility.

Garrus: *Ahem* Didn't know you had a thing for men with scars. Well, why the hell not? There's no one in the galaxy I respect more than you.

 

For someone like me who grew up on movies where the heroine always ended up tied up in the trunk of a car, this is extremely validating.

[AlexiaRevan]

It's really no different then peoples wanting their class or Specie to be recognized . 

[Nefla]

 

 

 

 

I think the problem here is that people should stop talking about characters they how no clue about. Play both games, read all 8 books and maybe you will realize that Geralt is one of the deepest protagonists out there. Maybe you have mistaken him with shephard/hawke?

 

Personally I've only played TW2 but in that he was pretty much a talking plank of wood. Maybe he was awesome and deep and complex in the books, in which case I'd say the game failed very badly getting that across. It wasn't until my third playthrough (Roche's path) that I found something human in him to relate to and it was this analysis of his character by Baron Kimbolt http://youtu.be/IwnhClM7gs8?t=2m7s

[Icefalcon]

 

 

 

 

I think the problem here is that people should stop talking about characters they how no clue about. Play both games, read all 8 books and maybe you will realize that Geralt is one of the deepest protagonists out there. Maybe you have mistaken him with shephard/hawke?

 

No, you see this will only work if you are hooked by either the first game or book you read. You clearly were but I was not, so I'm hardly going to waste my money on looking deeper into a character I already have zero interest in.

 

I've said it before people want to like the character they play and if they do not, a lot of them will not play it, or certainly not play a sequel or buy additional material. I disliked a lot about The Witcher from game play to combat but far and away i could find anything to like about  my character and that more than anything stopped me playing about what I judge to be half way through and switch to another title with a character I could develop a liking for.

 

The same would apply equally  to any game, if, for instance, you did not enjoy DAO you would not read the novels or the comics and you would not buy DA2.

[aTigerslunch]

Trying to catch up, but first.....

 

 

Infamous Son, First Light.  I was extremely unaware it was out, I barely heard about it, and the review I saw said female. If it had the exact same amount of advertising as Second Son, I would of heard about it.

 

Bound by Flames did a poor job of advertising females, I had to dig thru its website for nothing and wiki showed just very little that it was female option.

 

These are just two, there are many others.  Digging for this information shouldn't be done, it should be given in a trailer or advertisement that everyone will see. The game box for example, will have a male on the back, no mention of gender change, thereby making the front seem like a male to all those that would look at just the cover. That is a failure, it needs a mention of gender option changeable, PLAY AS MALE OR FEMALE, should be on the box with the Inquisition emblem instead of a male inquisitor.

 

 

EDIT:  I feel if its an RPG, it should be customizable protag completely. I might like Witcher way better if it had a CC. That is all I will say on it.

[tirnoney]

http://www.theguardi...video-games-iab

 

Yet another study telling us the same thing.  Lots of women play games.  In fact, of the 4000 interviewed, 52% were women.  And before anyone starts bleating about Candy Crush and Angry Birds, of the women in the study 47% had played a disc-based game in the last six months and 68% had played an online game.

 

Do the marketing departments in major games companies even know who their audience is any more?  When I look at the way the games are made, described, hyped and marketed, I really doubt it.  Bioware is at least trying to acknowledge a female audience even if they need reminding occasionally.

[tirnoney]

No offense intended, but I've never understood this sentiment. It's not just you, I've heard several other people on the forums say they don't really play video games, or enjoy RPG's or whatever, but they play Bioware games because they get to play as a homosexual or a female. But the thing is, Dragon Age has almost nothing to do with being gay or a women. In fact, I bet only like 3% of the game, max, changes based on your sexuality or gender. The rest is a mix of killing people and taking their stuff and an epic fantasy story about saving the world from *insert cataclysm here*. I mean, would people really play a 50 hour game that's 35 hours of combat they slog through and 14 hours of story they aren't interested in for the one hour when the world recognizes they are gay?

Rarely does anything enlightened follow the phrase 'no offense intended'.  But aside from your tone, let's for a minute go with your argument.  I'd be perfectly happy if all character and protagonists in video games were either gay or bisexual.  And all of them women.  How about that?  You've just said you don't understand what the fuss is all about so I'm assuming you won't mind if the situation is reversed so that those of us who do care will get what we want.  I'm sure you'll love playing all your games with a lesbian protagonist.  Am I right?

 

"Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it."

 

There, fixed it for you.

[Azaron Nightblade]

I don't see why they don't do multiple box cover arts, like comic books do so often.

Granted, it'd still be a bit hit or miss, since the "wrong" one might catch your eye, or a store runs out of one type...

 

Another option would be to go "split screen (cover)" - and have a male on one side, and a female on the other, or slice them in half and glue the parts together to show they're both different sides of the same person.

[Melca36]

So you buy a game based on the fact whether the protagonist is a giver or a receiver... and the story or gameplay is not your first priority.

 

 

 

Nothing to say really, good luck with that.

 

I say 60% of my characters are female and 40% are male.

 

I have no issues playing either gender despite leaning slightly to female.

 

I plan to play male characters as well as female characters for Inquisition.  I plan to have a male Inquisitor for Dorian, one for IB...I will have a female for Sera...etc.   

 

My sexuality is not a factor at how I play this game.

 

I find the story is different for me when I change genders for my characters.  And for $70 I want my moneys worth.

 

But that said....I do not purchase games just for the romances.

 

For $70  I buy a game because I want to play a game.

 

The main issue people have with the romances is the fact they can't romance who they want to this time around.   DA2 made people feel entitled  and in the process people automatically assumed Inquisition would be exactly the same. And sadly people there are people who would love to see the writers alter their vision just to suit their needs.

[MissMayhem96]

I remember when my brother brought home the ME trilogy boxset, it sat on the shelf for months and everytime I casually glanced over at the cover it was Default Shepard, I had no idea that you could play as the other gender until I put in the 1st Mass Effect and it gave me the option to play as FemShep.

 

I think if there is an option to play as Male or Female, it's a big enough feature to showcase in the Marketing. Now, I'm a huge ME fan, I create tons of FemSheps and if I had decided to not even bother because I thought it was going to be another Halo-esqe game, I wouldn't have played it. It's great the DA:I is showing off the female inquisitor's in Demos, also having one trailer narrated by one of the female Quizzy VA. Alix Regan Wilton. But I think there needs to be trailers that show off the female option to the public. Demo's are great, but casual gamers don't go looking up PAX or Gamescom gameplay demos.

 

There needs to be more female character Marketing in AAA games, Tomb Raider did very well despite having the female Protagonist, for example. Ubisoft made a huge mistake in not appreciating their women fans, saying that making one female assassin would be 'too much work'. 

 

Women have always liked playing Video games, either by playing with their brothers or family members. To say that women can't be represented in Bigger title games is actually very disappointing, especially if Male Gamers imply that a game won't sell because of it.

[Palidane]

Rarely does anything enlightened follow the phrase 'no offense intended'.  But aside from your tone, let's for a minute go with your argument.  I'd be perfectly happy if all character and protagonists in video games were either gay or bisexual.  And all of them women.  How about that?  You've just said you don't understand what the fuss is all about so I'm assuming you won't mind if the situation is reversed so that those of us who do care will get what we want.  I'm sure you'll love playing all your games with a lesbian protagonist.  Am I right?

 

"Of course, I'm a straight male, so maybe this is just my privilege talking, but I never understood it."

 

There, fixed it for you.

Hey genius, guess what my argument had absolutely nothing to do with? Whether a character is any gender or sexuality. I was asking why people who have no interest in 99% of a game will stick around for the 1%. If you slowed down the crusade for a half second and actually read my post, you might have understood that. And hey, maybe then you could have actually contributed to the subject instead of hopping on a soapbox and telling me to check my privilege. Crazy, right???

 

To everyone else, I know it's not common, but I have seen multiple people say the only games they really play are Bioware games, and that's only because they let you have a non-straight male protag. I have some users in mind, but I don't want to call anyone out in case I'm misremembering. I was just looking for some possible reasons why people would do that.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Hey genius, guess what my argument had absolutely nothing to do with? Whether a character is any gender or sexuality. I was asking why people who have no interest in 99% of a game will stick around for the 1%. If you slowed down the crusade for a half second and actually read my post, you might have understood that. And hey, maybe then you could have actually contributed to the subject instead of hopping on a soapbox and telling me to check my privilege. Crazy, right???

 

To everyone else, I know it's not common, but I have seen multiple people say the only games they really play are Bioware games, and that's only because they let you have a non-straight male protag. I have some users in mind, but I don't want to call anyone out in case I'm misremembering. I was just looking for some possible reasons why people would do that.

 

Really, that's a new one on me and nothing like what I took away from your earlier post! I'd assumed you were referring to the post you quoted which didn't say anything like that. Anyway, can't say I recall ever seeing that idea from anyone else, but I'd be fascinated to know if a non-straight male protagonist can drive non-gamers to gaming. I expect marketing would also be ecstatic! Anyone ever see this?

[chance52]

Really, that's a new one on me and nothing like what I took away from your earlier post! I'd assumed you were referring to the post you quoted which didn't say anything like that. Anyway, can't say I recall ever seeing that idea from anyone else, but I'd be fascinated to know if a non-straight male protagonist can drive non-gamers to gaming. I expect marketing would also be ecstatic! Anyone ever see this?

 

Try google instead of being condescending, and yes people say that. Ive seen a lot of posts from the tumblr lgbt crowd and there have been many posts I've seen in the last several months to that effect. Of course saying you are going to buy something and buying it are 2 different things. I can't speak to if a stranger on the internet was lying or not.

[Lady Nuggins]

Hey genius, guess what my argument had absolutely nothing to do with? Whether a character is any gender or sexuality. I was asking why people who have no interest in 99% of a game will stick around for the 1%. If you slowed down the crusade for a half second and actually read my post, you might have understood that. And hey, maybe then you could have actually contributed to the subject instead of hopping on a soapbox and telling me to check my privilege. Crazy, right???

 

To everyone else, I know it's not common, but I have seen multiple people say the only games they really play are Bioware games, and that's only because they let you have a non-straight male protag. I have some users in mind, but I don't want to call anyone out in case I'm misremembering. I was just looking for some possible reasons why people would do that.

 

There is a difference between only liking 1% of a game, and having the other 99% of the game enhanced by how important that 1% is to you.

 

I joke about how I'm just here for the romance, but that doesn't mean I don't also enjoy things like a good combat system.  But generally, if I'm not engaged by the story, setting, or characters, then good combat is not enough motivation to even pick up a game, let alone play it to the end.  For me, emotional engagement is just a basic prerequisite for enjoying most games (other than, you know, basic arcade games), so if I don't think a game is going to appeal to me emotionally, I don't see myself investing the time and money into it.