2121 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Because that's not simple? Because living on the land is hard and there are poaching laws? Not to mention building said town in the first place. There would be douchecanoe humans who attacked them for the hell of it and they wouldn't even get the meager protections they can get from the city.

 

Fenris can legally own that mansion he's squatting in (Varric forges the papers). That'd be impossible if all elves had to live in the alienage.

if it wasn't a system imposed on them, why did they go into the alienages at first?  After the defeat of the Dales why did they go into the cities, the heart of human populations

[Ryzaki]

Why would anyone think that was a good idea? Especially the "All spirits are dangerous" Dalish?

 

Because there's always that one idiot that thinks they know better than everyone else.

[dragonflight288]

we also know some clans are little better than bandits who prey upon humans in Tevinter

 

and clans who summon forbidden ones

 

Tevinter kind of deserves it. 

 

To be fair, if a bunch of templars of the White Chantry  were up there, they'd be doing the same thing. 

 

And we have only ONE clan doing that. The Dalish as a culture shun spirits in general, seeing them as all dangerous, as per WoT. 

[Steelcan]

Based on?

His comments towards the humans he has ensnared in a curse for centuries

[Willowhugger]

if it wasn't a system imposed on them, why did they go into the alienages at first?  After the defeat of the Dales why did they go into the cities, the heart of human populations

 

Yeah, it was the Chantry who did this.

The elves were divided up to weaken them as a people.

Elves might be able to leave the Alienages in specific circumstances because laws are rarely absolute. We know they can leave as human servants.

 

However, I imagine this is not something which applies to all Elves everywhere.

Maybe they have a work release program.

[dragonflight288]

Because there's always that one idiot that thinks they know better than everyone else.

 

So we should blame that one idiot. Not the culture. 

[Ryzaki]

if it wasn't a system imposed on them, why did they go into the alienages at first?  After the defeat of the Dales why did they go into the cities, the heart of human populations

 

That was from the slavery no?

 

They were enslaved first? (I'm not all that sure about the history though XD)

[Ceoldoren]

You have the cart before the horse. If they wanted to do it from the beginning it would have been easy to do, they just didn't want to put in the work.

It wasn't laziness on Biowares part, they had a very short time to make DA2 thanks to EA. And even had they had the time, DA2 would always have had the same main storyline. making it work with an Elven PC or a Dwarven PC would have required a near complete rework for each race. They didn't even do that with DA:O and that was in development for 4 years.

[Br3admax]

Pretty much

Except all we've seen is jerks, and while I'm sure there are some great people out there, I haven't met them. 

[Steelcan]

Tevinter kind of deserves it. 

 

To be fair, if a bunch of templars of the White Chantry  were up there, they'd be doing the same thing. 

 

And we have only ONE clan doing that. The Dalish as a culture shun spirits in general, seeing them as all dangerous, as per WoT. 

And I could easily argue that the Dales as a whole deserve the treatment they get, this is the problem with generalizations.  There are normal people living in Tevinter.  These aren't Robin Hoods looking out for slaves and the downtrodden.

 

And we have another clan that used a spirit in a blood magic ritual to curse generations of humans

[Jedi Master of Orion]

His comments towards the humans he has ensnared in a curse for centuries

 

That still sounded to me like was talking about that one group of people. He never extrapolated that same hatred to any non werewolf humans.

[LobselVith8]

Seems to be roughly equal. In Zathrian's clan, you had Zathrian as a racist, but Lanaya as a moderate, Athras was never rude no matter the race and was just happy to have some help with his wife....and they had Cammon. 

 

The Sabrae Clan had Tamlen, who seemed to be pretty hardcore, and wanted to kill the humans at the beginning of the Dalish origin, and depending on how we play the Dalish, kills them, Merethari welcomed Duncan with open arms and no one in the clan, save perhaps the Warden him/herself, gave him any problems. And Merrill who romances my Hawke every playthrough.

 

There's a lot of self-righteousness among the Dalish, it's true, but you'll find a lot of that same self-righteousness in humans and dwarves too. Heck, the captain in Orzammar when you first enter pretty much insults you for being a surfacer and that's all there is to it. 

 

There's also the issue that outsiders are generally dangerous to the Dalish, so it's natural that the members of the clan would be predisposed to be wary of any outsiders who approach them; even Junar notes to Pol that he initially thought that Pol might have been a bandit threatening the clan (and city elves were among the bandits who attacked Mahariel's parents, so the Dalish have reason to be cautious about elves as well).

[dragonflight288]

His comments towards the humans he has ensnared in a curse for centuries

 

That's him blaming the children for the sins of the Father. 

 

the Chantry and templars, and some posters, do the same thing with mages regarding Tevinter and the blights. People in the forums do the same thing for the Dalish refusing to help during the second blight and have made arguments against modern dalish because of it.

 

It's a trope that is common among all the races and cultures of Thedas in Dragon Age. 

[Ryzaki]

So we should blame that one idiot. Not the culture. 

 

In the case of the forbidden one yeah.

 

The being a smug ****** though is pretty much a default in most of the clans we've seen.

[Steelcan]

That was from the slavery no?

 

They were enslaved first? (I'm not all that sure about the history though XD)

no, they were not enslaved after the fall of the Dales

[Willowhugger]

Of course, ACKNOWLEDGING CITY ELVES ARE NOT JEWS, there were many Jews who lived outside Jewish ghettos.

It might be the racism and laws against elves ebbs and flows with the time.

 

Sometimes, its illegal to live outside the Alienage.

Sometimes not.

Other times just very difficult.

[Ryzaki]

That's him blaming the children for the sins of the Father. 

 

the Chantry and templars, and some posters, do the same thing with mages regarding Tevinter and the blights. People in the forums do the same thing for the Dalish refusing to help during the second blight and have made arguments against modern dalish because of it.

 

It's a trope that is common among all the races and cultures of Thedas in Dragon Age. 

 

I'm pretty sure all those humans cursed weren't relatives of the original cursed people. It spread.

[TheEternalStudent]

Why would anyone think that was a good idea? Especially the "All spirits are dangerous" Dalish?

They don't say all spirits are dangerous, they say everyone in the Beyond is a spirit, some of them can be dangerous, but lumping them together when the very nature of that realm is illusion and appearance is foolish. And if you are sufficiently cautious summoning a forbidden one is no more dangerous than summoning a whisp. They just didn't have enough precaution, though to be fair he/she/it was successfully imprisoned until the barrier was broken.

[Steelcan]

That's him blaming the children for the sins of the Father. 

 

the Chantry and templars, and some posters, do the same thing with mages regarding Tevinter and the blights. People in the forums do the same thing for the Dalish refusing to help during the second blight and have made arguments against modern dalish because of it.

 

It's a trope that is common among all the races and cultures of Thedas in Dragon Age. 

none of that absolves them of wrongdoing

[dragonflight288]

And I could easily argue that the Dales as a whole deserve the treatment they get, this is the problem with generalizations.  There are normal people living in Tevinter.  These aren't Robin Hoods looking out for slaves and the downtrodden.

 

And we have another clan that used a spirit in a blood magic ritual to curse generations of humans

 

 

You really missed my point in the first thing, as I never even mentioned Robin Hood or brought up the idea of it. 

 

And with Zathrian, that is a single man in a clan, who kept his entire clan in the dark for centuries. That is not the work of a clan, that is the work of a single man. 

[BronzTrooper]

I doubt the idea that the dalish do not exist at all is very widespread

 

Like I said: I was going based off the city elf origin.  Whether this can only be applied to Denerim's alienage or it is more common than that, I do not know for sure.

 

The Dalish as a whole don't seem keen on attacking human settlements or caravans, and largely keep to themselves. Except for possibly the humans who get too close to their camp, and we only see that with the Dalish Warden making the choice.

 

In DA2, the templars went picking a fight, but the Dalish mostly kept to themselves. 

 

All I said was that humans would be more likely to attack or be attacked by the Dalish.  Some clans do pick fights with human settlements/caravans, using their speed and mobility to disappear without a trace, but they do not make up the entirety of the Dalish.  But then, there are many cases where the more nomadic peoples were often looked down upon and even despised for not staying in one place for very long.

[Willowhugger]

That's him blaming the children for the sins of the Father. 

 

the Chantry and templars, and some posters, do the same thing with mages regarding Tevinter and the blights. People in the forums do the same thing for the Dalish refusing to help during the second blight and have made arguments against modern dalish because of it.

 

It's a trope that is common among all the races and cultures of Thedas in Dragon Age. 

Frankly, it's not much of an excuse for invading and destroying a nation either is it.

"I'm going to murder your nation because you didn't help in a war"

That's kind of Insane Troll Logic there.

[dragonflight288]

In the case of the forbidden one yeah.

 

The being a smug ****** though is pretty much a default in most of the clans we've seen.

 

And the Chantry....and the dwarves....and even to a limited extent the city elves in their view of the Dalish. 

[Ryzaki]

no, they were not enslaved after the fall of the Dales

 

Ah. Well if you just lost a war staying in your own community isn't that far fetched. Especially when there's more of a support structure and less expensive than living anywhere else in the city (and you have a much lower chance of some pricks burning your house down and everyone else acting like they don't know what happened).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They don't say all spirits are dangerous, they say everyone in the Beyond is a spirit, some of them can be dangerous, but lumping them together when the very nature of that realm is illusion and appearance is foolish. And if you are sufficiently cautious summoning a forbidden one is no more dangerous than summoning a whisp. They just didn't have enough precaution, though to be fair he/she/it was successfully imprisoned until the barrier was broken.

Merrill flat out tells Anders "All spirits are dangerous." in DA2.