2121 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yes, but there's almost no chance she'll do it a second time. She's a better person from the experience. 

 

If she wasn't a limp wristed flake that would mean something.

[Ryzaki]

Who needs help when you have Celene for an empress? The City Elves in Orlais at least will be fine. 

 

Meh. I'd only support her because so far Gaspard seems worse for the elves.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Meh. I'd only support her because so far Gaspard seems worse for the elves.

 

Gaspard doesn't care about the elves one way or the other.

 

Celene pretends to care but will drop them at the first sign of trouble.

 

If I'm getting screwed over either way I'd take the one who had the decency to be honest about it.

[Br3admax]

If she wasn't a limp wristed flake that would mean something.

Give her time. Just 40 more years. 

 

Meh. I'd only support her because so far Gaspard seems worse for the elves.

lol

[Ryzaki]

 

lol

 

Hey I never said she was much better. Just better.

 

Gaspard doesn't care about the elves one way or the other.

 

Celene pretends to care but will drop them at the first sign of trouble.

 

If I'm getting screwed over either way I'd take the one who had the decency to be honest about it.

 

I'd take the one where I at least get the chance for a better life even if it's dropped at the first sign of hardship. At least then there was a chance.

 

Crappy chances are better than none to  me.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hey I never said she was much better. Just better.

 

 

I'd take the one where I at least get the chance for a better life even if it's dropped at the first sign of hardship. At least then there was a chance.

 

Crappy chances are better than none to  me.

 

False hope is worse than not having hope to begin with.

 

Gaspard won't promise the stars only to abandon them. More importantly if the Elves ever DID manage to get him to agree to do something for them you can be damn sure he'd do it hell or high water.

 

Celene lacks his strength of character.

[Steelcan]

caring about elves??  what is this madness

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

caring about elves??  what is this madness

 

Come on Brother Steelcan even Ghosts can admit the City Elves have the **** end of the stick.

 

It's just the Dalish that are due for a cleansing.

[Ryzaki]

False hope is worse than not having hope to begin with.

 

Gaspard won't promise the stars only to abandon them. More importantly if the Elves ever DID manage to get him to agree to do something for them you can be damn sure he'd do it hell or high water.

 

Celene lacks his strength of character.

 

Personally I rather have the false hope. At least there's a chance there.

 

Yeah the issue there is managing to get him to agree to do anything in the first place.

 

Maybe she does but I'd pick her over him :X

 

caring about elves??  what is this madness

 

My favorite wardens are city elves. My rogue and my mage

Dalish elves can go die in a fire though.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Personally I rather have the false hope. At least there's a chance there.

 

Yeah the issue there is managing to get him to agree to do anything in the first place.

 

Maybe she does but I'd pick her over him :X

 

False hope doesn't provide ANY chance.

 

Hell even Briala realized that Celene would NEVER give the Elves the help she would promise.

 

Gaspard is superior in every other category AND his honesty about the elven issue puts him ahead of Celene. He'll never be good enough to be like Bhelen but he's still a damn sight better than his cousin.

[Steelcan]

but remember the city elves aren't true elves according to our favorite barbarian nomads

[Ryzaki]

False hope doesn't provide ANY chance.

 

Hell even Briala realized that Celene would NEVER give the Elves the help she would promise.

 

Gaspard is superior in every other category AND his honesty about the elven issue puts him ahead of Celene.

 

You're assuming every single time the elves won't get any benefits whatsoever. Slow progress is still progress.

 

Wasn't it never period or was Briala tired of the elves coming in last? I got the impression it was the second (but I'm basing this off second hand information to be fair).

 

No. You can feel Gaspard is superior and that's fine. I don't. Honestly the mass Gaspard fanboyism has done more to put me off him than the whole wanting to start a war with Fereldan and being a Chevalier did and I didn't like him because of those attributes in the first place.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

but remember the city elves aren't true elves according to our favorite barbarian nomads

 

All the more reason for the Dalish to go die in a fire then.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

You're assuming every single time the elves won't get any benefits whatsoever. Slow progress is still progress.

 

Wasn't it never period or was Briala tired of the elves coming in last? I got the impression it was the second (but I'm basing this off second hand information to be fair).

 

 

 

It was her realization that Celene would NEVER carry through with her reforms. Celene is the type of person that will promise the world *And may even genuinely believe it* but when push comes to shove the only thing that matters to her is maintaining her grip on power. At best the elves would have been used as spies and assassins via the magic mirrors. Celene would never move to improve the lot of ALL of them because she lacks the strength to stand up to the backlash.

 

Gaspard on the other hand would promise them nothing unless they gave him a reason to work with them. Had she offered the mirror network to him in exchange for a series of moderate but far reaching reforms AND got him to give his word he would have gone to the last most bitter end to see it through.

 

Celene is a "reformer" who lacks the strength for real reform.

 

Gaspard is a traditionalist who is smart enough to see an opportunity and honorable enough to honor the terms of using that opportunity.

 

That's why he has my support.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Come on Brother Steelcan even Ghosts can admit the City Elves have the **** end of the stick.

 

It's just the Dalish that are due for a cleansing.

 

Gaspard is superior in every other category AND his honesty about the elven issue puts him ahead of Celene. He'll never be good enough to be like Bhelen but he's still a damn sight better than his cousin.

 

Until a noble makes a catty comment about her treatment of them and she kills a few thousand of them to prove her point.

 

If she wasn't a limp wristed flake that would mean something.

 

So City Elves deserve better. Celene sucks for purging them. And Gaspard is better because he would have done it a thousand times faster and more brutally and offered them none of the benefits Celene did? Pick a side already. City Elves or Gaspard.

 

but remember the city elves aren't true elves according to our favorite barbarian nomads

 

City Elves say that about other elves too.

[Br3admax]

Hey I never said she was much better. Just better.

Seriously? She committed genocide against her own people because someone told her to. Seriously? We rarely see eye to eye on anything about elves, but I'm honestly surprised about this one. 

[Steelcan]

All the more reason for the Dalish to go die in a fire then.

as long as we get to start it

[Ryzaki]

It was her realization that Celene would NEVER carry through with her reforms. Celene is the type of person that will promise the world *And may even genuinely believe it* but when push comes to shove the only thing that matters to her is maintaining her grip on power. At best the elves would have been used as spies and assassins via the magic mirrors. Celene would never move to improve the lot of ALL of them because she lacks the strength to stand up to the backlash.

 

Improving the lot of them sadly is probably beyond most nobilities power because the racism is so entrenched. That's something that would need to improve bit by  bit over generations because she doesn't have the power necessary to simply force the issue.

[Ryzaki]

Seriously? She committed genocide against her own people because someone told her to. Seriously? We rarely see eye to eye on anything about elves, but I'm honestly surprised about this one. 

 

Yes because Gaspard would be such an improvement.
 

They're both crap choices.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

So City Elves deserve better. Celene sucks for purging them. And Gaspard is better because he would have done it a thousand times faster and more brutally and offered them none of the benefits Celene did? Pick a side already. City Elves or Gaspard.

 

 

 

 

The worst thing you can do to an oppressed group is offer them false hope only to crush it.

 

If you're going to promise a brighter tomorrow you sure as hell better be deterimined to see it through. Otherwise You'd be better crushing them quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

[Steelcan]

Yes because Gaspard would be such an improvement.
 

would you rather the knife in your back come from a former friend or someone who never cared about you in the first place?

 

Of course, ideally there would not be a knife sticking out of your back

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yes because Gaspard would be such an improvement.
 

They're both crap choices.

 

If they're both crap choices you might as well pick the one who actually means what they say and has the strength of character to back it up.

[Ryzaki]

would you rather the knife in your back come from a former friend or someone who never cared about you in the first place?

 

Of course, ideally there would not be a knife sticking out of your back

 

I rather it come from someone who never cared in the first place.

 

But you're ignoring that Celene offers a potential for a benefit. That's not the case with Gaspard. Do I think it's the risk for something better to risk a backstab? Yes.

 

Of course.
 

[Br3admax]

Yes because Gaspard would be such an improvement.
 

They're both crap choices.

"Celene, go kill half the elves in the kingdom because we want you to." C: "Okay."

"Gaspard, go kill half the elves in the kingdom because we want you to." G: "If I wanted to do that, I would have. You're lucky I don't kill half the men in this room." 

 

If you can't tell which is the better leader of a country from that, then I'll see you on the battlefield, friend. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If they're both crap choices you might as well pick the one who actually means what they say and has the strength of character to back it up.

 

Or you might as well pick the one that gives you minor benefits as opposed to none.