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[Lulupab]

Suggesting or hinting that The Bosmer or Altmer are superior to The Dunmer is Blasphemy!!

Never did such a thing, they simply seem less elven now if you compare their life to other elves of Tamriel. They are a hardy and strong race and have endured too much. Didn't mean to hint Altmer and Bosmer are superior, but they are more elven. You do realize Orcs are Mer too right? They are Orsimer and had elven ancestors but they are nothing like elves except they still have pointy ears. They have lost their long life as well.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There is no such thing as "more elven". If you are an elf, you are elven. 

 

To relate this back to DA, the Dalish are no more elven than the City, Qun, or Tevinter elves, despite them saying they are the 'true elves'. 

[animedreamer]

There is no such thing as "more elven". If you are an elf, you are elven. 

 

To relate this back to DA, the Dalish are no more elven than the City, Qun, or Tevinter elves, despite them saying they tre the 'true elves'. 

I figure they meant True as in keeping to the Old Elven ways.

[Lulupab]

I figure they meant True as in keeping to the Old Elven ways.

Really, what's the difference between a city elf and a poor human other than slender bodies and pointy ears?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I figure they meant True as in keeping to the Old Elven ways.

I know what they mean. They are just wrong if that is what they mean.

 

Really, what's the difference between a city elf and a poor human other than slender bodies and pointy ears?

A culture for starters. 

[Lulupab]

I know what they mean. They are just wrong if that is what they mean.


A culture for starters.

Well Elder scroll universe is different. Dark elves are starting to lose their elven powers and lifestyle they used to share with their other elven brethren such as long life and affinity to Aedra. In that universe races twist and change quickly and they are no longer what they used to be.

As for DA, the city elves are trying but they are not going anywhere to be honest. The most successful city elves are the servants of the richest or simply they work for people who don't look down on the elves. There really isn't enough fundamental difference to call city elves another race. I mean sure they are a different race but for the most part they have assimilated. We don't have other races on reality to make examples of but most people living in foreign country start to lose their own culture with each passing generation until they fully assimilate into the said country's culture. Ultimately they are human so its not a problem but that's not the case for elves. They are becoming short humans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As for DA, the city elves are trying but they are not going anywhere to be honest. The most successful city elves are the servants of the richest or simply they work for people who don't look down on the elves. There really isn't enough fundamental difference to call city elves another race. I mean sure they are a different race but for the most part they have assimilated. We don't have other races on reality to make examples of but most people living in foreign country start to lose their own culture with each passing generation until they fully assimilate into the said country's culture. Ultimately they are human so its not a problem but that's not the case for elves. They are becoming short humans.

Just because they share similarities in culture with humans doesn't make City Elves less elven, especially not to the point of "there really isn't enough fundamental differences to call city elves another race" as you said. They have an elven culture that while has adapted to being under humans is still an elven culture. It will always be an elven culture as long as they are elves.

 

Ferelden was under the rule of Orlais for decades, so does that mean modern Ferelden is less culturally Ferelden than it was a century ago before the occupation? The answer is no. The culture adapted, but it is still the same culture and always will be as long as the people identify it as such. 

[Icy Magebane]

Well Elder scroll universe is different. Dark elves are starting to lose their elven powers and lifestyle they used to share with their other elven brethren such as long life and affinity to Aedra. In that universe races twist and change quickly and they are no longer what they used to be.

As for DA, the city elves are trying but they are not going anywhere to be honest. The most successful city elves are the servants of the richest or simply they work for people who don't look down on the elves. There really isn't enough fundamental difference to call city elves another race. I mean sure they are a different race but for the most part they have assimilated. We don't have other races on reality to make examples of but most people living in foreign country start to lose their own culture with each passing generation until they fully assimilate into the said country's culture. Ultimately they are human so its not a problem but that's not the case for elves. They are becoming short humans.

I thought it was physical characteristics, not culture that determined a person's race.  Wouldn't cultural similarities be tied to "nationality" instead?  Elves are clearly different from humans... I don't think they need to look radically different like the Elder Scrolls redesigns (Skyrim-style) to make that apparent.  There is some kind of magical component to elves in DA that separates them from other races... after all, if they were related to humans in any way, a combination of human and elf wouldn't make a 100% human.  It would be a half-elf.

[Lulupab]

Just because they share similarities in culture with humans doesn't make City Elves less elven, especially not to the point of "there really isn't enough fundamental differences to call city elves another race" as you said. They have an elven culture that while has adapted to being under humans is still an elven culture. It will always be an elven culture as long as they are elves.
 
Ferelden was under the rule of Orlais for decades, so does that mean modern Ferelden is less culturally Ferelden than it was a century ago before the occupation? The answer is no. The culture adapted, but it is still the same culture and always will be as long as the people identify it as such.

You could have made a better example because its against your argument, not only Ferelden didn't adapt anything from Orlais they were close to permanently disband the chantry in their country because the divine openly supported invasion of Ferelden. People of Ferelden resisted and preserved their culture and way of life. Something city elves didn't and or couldn't do.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You could have made a better example because its against your argument, not only Ferelden didn't adapt anything from Orlais they were close to permanently disband the chantry in their country because the divine openly supported invasion of Ferelden. People of Ferelden resisted and preserved their culture and way of life. Something city elves didn't and or couldn't do.

Fine, then try this one: The elves of Arlathan were enslaved by Tevinter for a millennium. When freed, they became the Dales. Were the elves of the Dales less elven than the elves of Arlathan? 

[Master Warder Z_]

Humans have local nobility to act as mediators.

In Fereldan and Orlais more often than not wherever you are a lord has rights to the land.

[A Clever Name]

I thought it was physical characteristics, not culture that determined a person's race.  Wouldn't cultural similarities be tied to "nationality" instead?  Elves are clearly different from humans... I don't think they need to look radically different like the Elder Scrolls redesigns (Skyrim-style) to make that apparent.  There is some kind of magical component to elves in DA that separates them from other races... after all, if they were related to humans in any way, a combination of human and elf wouldn't make a 100% human.  It would be a half-elf.

Just to clarify, since this is often a very confusing concept (and I don't blame anyone for mixing them up, either): race is not the same as ethnicity.  Race is defined, at least by anthropologists and political scientists, as a mindset, or a sense of belonging to a specific group of people.  Race can therefore be tied to nationality, but so can ethnicity.  Ethnicity is defined as the genetic structures of the individuals in question.  For example, one can be racially Russian but ethnically Tatar; or racially Russian but ethnically Russian as well (which belongs to the Slavic ethnic group, who were not the original settlers of what we now know as the Russian Federation).  South American countries can have absurdly fluctuating race labels - just getting a tan can change what race others consider you - but this does not necessarily reflect your nationality.  For a fantasy example, the Dunmer and Altmer stem from the same ethnic/genetic background, but racially the two are very different and no longer consider one another as "us," outside of perhaps the Mer connections.

 

Tying this into the Dragon Age setting, one might consider the elves in the same light as the Dunmer and Altmer.  They are rather different due to the amount of time they've spent separate, and therefore display a difference in "race," if you'd feel comfortable saying that.  Ethnically they are one in the same.  If you believe in the concept of national character, one might still be able to make the argument that they have not become completely divorced from one another due to their shared history - but I say that this concept works against such arguments, as they lead very different lives, and the fall of the Dales shaped them separately rather than together.  But of course, never doubt the power of pan-nationalism!  As for the human factor in this, I think it more accurate to say that elves and humans are two separate species rather than races, as each have their own ethnicities, races and nationalities that make them distinct.

[Steelcan]

 

City elves may have long lost touch with their religion and may be losing touch with their history, traditions and customs,

What nonsense is this?

 

This seems like you classify the City Elves as fallen Dalish not their own cultural group

[Br3admax]

Humans have also lost touch with their culture. Let's go back to sleeping in the mod and being ruled by people with glowy eyes. 

[Master Warder Z_]

What nonsense is this?

This seems like you classify the City Elves as fallen Dalish not their own cultural group

A disgusting but sadly common practice.

[Icy Magebane]

@ A Clever Name - "Race" is a mindset now?  That's news to me.  But they did revoke Pluto's status as a planet, so I guess anything's possible.

[Br3admax]

City elves may have long lost touch with their religion and may be losing touch with their history, traditions and customs, but they still have a distinctly elven historical and cultural identity. Elves everywhere have a shared historical identity of knowing they were once free, then enslaved by humans, then freed by Andraste, then got their own land, then lost their land again and now live under or away from humans humans. They are a race of people who were once autonomous and now aren't, and that shared knowledge affects individuals and communities, in a way it can't for humans.

 

As a culture, the elves are also much more community-centered than the humans. Go into the alienage and most elves will know everyone else whereas most humans probably won't. (Look at the difference between the community involvement of the Denerim and Kirkwall Alienage compared to the community involvement of, say, Lowtown.) Elves culturally view everyone in their alienage or clan as their family (this applies to both city elves and Dalish). In the City Elf Origin, everyone you meet is referred to as family, even if they aren't necessarily blood-related. Humans only regard immediate blood relatives as family (parents, siblings, aunts/uncles, nieces/nephews), and don't care much about the goings on of others.

 

You do realise that because these elven groups are far smaller they can actually know everyone and are most likely all related to each other, don't you?

[TheEternalStudent]

What nonsense is this?

 

This seems like you classify the City Elves as fallen Dalish not their own cultural group

They have created new cultural traditions, but they have lost connection to older traditions and history.

[Br3admax]

They have created new cultural traditions, but they have lost connection to older traditions and history.

It wasn't "their religion" it was a religion that their ancestors may have practiced. Same with "their culture." 

[TheEternalStudent]

It wasn't "their religion" it was a religion that their ancestors may have practiced. Same with "their culture." 

And the world religion didn't appear once in my quote. I focused on traditions and history, which can be completely religious.

[Master Warder Z_]

They have created new cultural traditions, but they have lost connection to older traditions and history.

Which is a good thing.

They aren't fixated on a past long gone or customs and traditions of an empire that has long since faded into history.

The sun set on original elven culture a long time ago.

[Br3admax]

And the world religion didn't appear once in my quote. I focused on traditions and history, which can be completely religious.

Doesn't really matter at all to what I said. My ancestors talked to trees and ate lion testicles. That isn't my culture. That isn't my religion. The person in question brought up both, so I responded to both.  

[TheEternalStudent]

Which is a good thing.

They aren't fixated on a past long gone or customs and traditions of an empire that has long since faded into history.

The sun set on original elven culture a long time ago.

So we should focus on the most recent event, not idlize long dead cultures or individuals. Focus on the most recent events...

So I'll mark you down as a follower of Koslun.

[Steelcan]

They have created new cultural traditions, but they have lost connection to older traditions and history.

they have evolved

 

remaining hide-bound to tradition is a recipe for extinction