2121 réponses à ce sujet

[BronzTrooper]

#proud dalish hater.

 

What?

 

This is an elven support thread not a dalish support thread.

 

The Dalish are still elves, though.  

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

The Dalish are still elves, though.  

 

Nah they're pure victim complex and superiority complex now.

 

They stopped being elves a long time ago.

[Patchwork]

Well, my personal opinion about the matter is that even if it's little, the Dalish do know more things about the old Arlathan culture (I refuse to call it just "elven", for the reasons Kallen pointed out before) than their City Brethren. Even if it's just because they know more words than them (language is part of a culture, after all).

 

The problem with Dalish knowledge isn't "how can you be so proud if you still know very little?", but "how can you be sure that you are interpreting that knowledge correctly?". To give a simple example, what if they got the names wrong and Andruil is the goddess of fire while her sister Sylaise is the goddess of the hunt? According to the original Arlathan lore of course; it's interesting to point out that the text about the elven pantheon in WoT keeps saying "Dalish lore", "the Dalish tell stories", "the Dalish believe". In no neutral source it's said that the pantheon they worship was the Arlathan one.

 

It's an example, so let's not start a discussion about "yes, Andruil was the goddess of the hunt because someone mentioned that...". The point isn't whether Andruild was the goddess of the hunt or not in Arlathan, but that the Dalish could have made a lot of mistakes like that because they don't know much about past elven civilization, despite knowing more than others.

 

Andruil may or may not have been the Arlathan Goddess of the Hunt but she is that to the dalish, culture and the names of gods change. There's probably some ancient Tevinter mixed in with current dalish practices too because however much they try to emulate the elves of Arlathan that culture's dead and the dalish are the descendants of slaves and displaced refugees.    

[Br3admax]

*snip*

Hating the Dalish doesn't mean you hate them reclaiming their culture, which isn't even what the Dalish are doing. Dalish are attacking anyone who comes near them and being close minded. 

 

Nah they're pure victim complex and superiority complex now.

 

They stopped being elves a long time ago.

 

#proud dalish hater.

 

What?

 

This is an elven support thread not a dalish support thread.

Case in point. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Hating the Dalish doesn't mean you hate them claiming their culture, which isn't even what the Dalish are doing. Dalish are attacking anyone who comes near them and being close minded. 

 

Case in point. 

 

Two of the quotes I put on that page were about how the Dalish practice of trying to remember elven traditions that the City Elves have forgotten is automatically negative.

[Ryzaki]

I assume every Dalish hater is proud of it. So I would expect most would be happy to corroborate the claim that they exist.

 

The Dalish are still elves, though.  

 

They are not the only elves.

 

I support the city elves.

 

[Br3admax]

Two of the quotes recorded on that page were about how the Dalish practice of trying to remember elven traditions that the City Elves have forgotten is automatically negative.

Those were about the negative aspects of relying only on tradition, not reclaiming lost lore. 

[Felya87]

Probably there would be much more love for the Dalish if they where less discriminatory towards their own kind who live in the city and decided survival was better than death or being tribal.  at least, that's me.

 

I am more than ok with the hate against the humans (they have all the right to do so. Is not fine, but is understandable) but I can't really stand how they treat City Elves. I can actually see, if there is ever a new reign for the Elves, the Dalish would take the power and being just as ruthless as the Humans towards the non Dalish Elves.

[Ryzaki]

I don't hate the dalish reclaiming their culture. That's a great goal.

 

I hate them being so the way they are (snide is probably not the right word) about it.

[BronzTrooper]

Nah they're pure victim complex and superiority complex now.

 

They stopped being elves a long time ago.

 

Keep telling yourself that.  

[TheJediSaint]

I don't hate the dalish reclaiming their culture. That's a great goal.
 
I hate them being so the way they are (snide is probably not the right word) about it.

The Dalish are Dragon Age's version of your standard smug fantasy elves. Which is probably why a lot of people, including myself, don't particularly like them.

[Br3admax]

Keep telling yourself that.  

How is he wrong, exactly?

[Ryzaki]

The Dalish are Dragon Age's version of your standard smug fantasy elves. Which is probably why a lot of people, including myself, don't particularly like them.

 

Yep that explains it. I couldn't quite put my finger on it until you said it like that.

[Hellion Rex]

I would have loved to play a male City elf Templar.

 

That would have been some fantastic roleplaying.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They do know more than the City Elves by their own words. That's kind of another thing that the anti-Dalish folk lambast them for, in fact. They almost always say they remember more about the old ways than the City Elves (and they do). They often hope to teach the old lore to "the elves that have forgotten" one day.

 

Language is important, but they know more than that. They know more their history, traditions and religion than the City Elves. What else are they supposed to know?

 

 

Really?

 

How close have you been paying attention to this thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it's not all they say is wrong with the Dalish but it was literally on the previous page where people said it was inherently wrong to try to cling to old traditions.

Why did you quote me in this? I said Dwarves, not Dalish.

[BronzTrooper]

How is he wrong, exactly?

 

As it has been stated previously: the Dalish and city elves are still all elves, regardless of their culture and, in this case, attitude.  Plus, the Dalish don't consider themselves victims.

 

By Admiral's logic, Circle mages have a 'pure victim complex' too.

[TheJediSaint]

As it has been stated previously: the Dalish and city elves are still all elves, regardless of their culture and, in this case, attitude.  Plus, the Dalish don't consider themselves victims.

 

By Admiral's logic, Circle mages have a 'pure victim complex' too.

They may not consider themselves victims.  However, considering how much they grouse about the Shemlens stealing their land, it's no surprise that others would accuse them of having a victim-complex.

[BronzTrooper]

They may not consider themselves victims.  However, considering how much they grouse about the Shemlens stealing their land, it's no surprise that others would accuse them of having a victim-complex.

Hmm... maybe, but you have to admit that the Dalish have gotten screwed over more times than necessary, regardless of what they may have done.  Same goes for the city elves.

[TheJediSaint]

Hmm... maybe, but you have to admit that the Dalish have gotten screwed over more times than necessary, regardless of what they may have done.  Same goes for the city elves.

More so, the City Elves.  The Dalish mostly just talk about getting screwed over by humans.  The City Elves live it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hmm... maybe, but you have to admit that the Dalish have gotten screwed over more times than necessary, regardless of what they may have done.  Same goes for the city elves.

City Elves, absolutely.

Dalish Elves, debatable. There have been enough instances with them where human animosity is justified, just like Dalish animosity towards humans is.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why did you quote me in this? I said Dwarves, not Dalish.

 

Because you seemed like you were using Dwarves as an example to concur with the previous statement about the Dalish. Was I wrong? Did you not think that it applied to the Dalish?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because you seemed like you were using Dwarves as an example to concur with the previous statement about the Dalish. Was I wrong? Did you not think that it applied to the Dalish?

I used Dwarves to concur with the thought that sometimes sticking to tradition rather than adapting to changing circumstances can lead to negative results. The Dwarves have stuck with tradition, and they almost went extinct for it. The non-Surface Dwarves still might.

[Icy Magebane]

Well, I don't exactly hate the Dalish, but I will say that not one of my non-Dalish characters in DA:O enjoyed interacting with them... if the Warden didn't go out of their way to be nice in the face of the Dalish elves' hostility, they could easily find themselves at odds with everyone in the clan, most notably Master Varathorn.  It was usually an uncomfortable experience having to deal with them as a non-Dalish, but that also made it all the more satisfying to say what my character was actually thinking no matter how angry they got.  If they weren't the best source of elfroot in the game, I probably wouldn't bother with trying to be nice to them... they don't deserve it.  Even after you save their clan by curing the werewolves as well as the Dalish, there are still more of them in the woods that will gladly kill you in spite of your help and in spite of the fact that you are a Grey Warden.  If you don't help them track down the former werewolves (or pass a speech check), nothing else matters... talk about short-sighted...

 

As for Hawke, the Dalish were hostile in even the most minor interactions... there's really nothing positive that I can say about any member of the clan featured in DA2.  Based on how the Dalish were handled in DA:O, there is also an encounter with a group of on the Wounded Coast that is overwhelmingly negative and is usually the first experience with the Dalish in the game unless you decide to go to Sundermount early...  The Dalish in this group will immediately attack if they are interrupted in their attempt to kill a former werewolf (surprise, the Dalish hold grudges).  They will not listen to reason and are not open to discussion, they just want Hawke, his/her companions, and the former werewolf dead. 

 

Basically, unless I'm going out of my way to play as a character willing to kiss their butts, or as a Dalish in the case of DA:O, there's really not much to like about the Dalish...  It would be nice if DA:I deviated from this pattern, but I have my doubts.

 

Overall, I can respect the Dalish for wanting to hold onto their past and wanting to be free of human rule.  Those are admirable goals.  However, I think they are going about it in the wrong way.  The Dalish are almost always hostile to outsiders, with some clans even committing murder if a human happens to stumble onto their camp.  There is very little reason for anyone who isn't a part of their group to aid or sympathize with them...  They may have good reasons for being isolationists, but by that same token, outsiders have plenty of good reason to dislike the Dalish or want them as far away from their cities as possible.  If the Dalish left the human lands, I doubt anyone would care enough to follow.  However, they insist on living within the borders of human nations, frequently engaging in banditry or killing random humans without provocation, and then wonder why they are driven away from the cities and prevented from making permanent settlements...

[Tevinter Rose]

from EGX:

 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I used Dwarves to concur with the thought that sometimes sticking to tradition rather than adapting to changing circumstances can lead to negative results. The Dwarves have stuck with tradition, and they almost went extinct for it. The non-Surface Dwarves still might.

 

Well the conversation was about elves, so it's not an unreasonable assumption to think that's who you were also talking about.

 

The post you replied to was this:

 

they have evolved

 

remaining hide-bound to tradition is a recipe for extinction

 

Which was in turn a replay to this:

 

 

They have created new cultural traditions, but they have lost connection to older traditions and history.

 

So it seemed to me like you were agreeing with the same line of conclusion about the Dalish Elves. If you weren't then sorry. There's other examples to illustrate the point I was making anyway.