Speaking of Inquisitor elves in the game, I've been having a little bit of trouble rationalizing having a Dalish Elf wanting to keep Dorian around, but I also don't feel like skipping out on all his content with her.
Anyone else having a personal conundrum along those lines?
He's an ally and willing to help the Inquisition out, and not even a representative of Tevinter anymore. Easier than keeping Iron Bull.
Speaking of Inquisitor elves in the game, I've been having a little bit of trouble rationalizing having a Dalish Elf wanting to keep Dorian around, but I also don't feel like skipping out on all his content with her.
Anyone else having a personal conundrum along those lines?
Embrace Tevinter, embrace Dorian.
The Qunari kicking Tevinter where the sun don't shine.
This.
Speaking of Inquisitor elves in the game, I've been having a little bit of trouble rationalizing having a Dalish Elf wanting to keep Dorian around, but I also don't feel like skipping out on all his content with her.
Anyone else having a personal conundrum along those lines?
I just have it where my f!Dalish will be wary of him at first, but she'll eventually come to respect him and possibly consider him to be a friend due to him being outside the norm for Tevinter nobility.
Hopefully DA4 has some city elves so I can get in the elf loving again.
I like the Dalish and have no problem with the decision with the Inquisitor, but I do hope the next game has a city elf, for the sake of balance in my canon. Had a Dalish big guddamn hero in Origins, so I ought to have a City Elf one sometime down the road too I reckon.
They've proven that it's possible to live in harmony with mages outside the Chantry's umbrella. That's quite a bit of value.
Do the Dalish need to change? Sure. But so does everyone in Thedas, and I'd say the Dalish need to change less than some, at least in terms of cultural values. And it'll be easier not to fear once they have a land of their own and can properly secure it.
Well, that all depends on your perspective.
Is it harmony when the leadership positions are all taken up by Mages?
Well, that all depends on your perspective.
Is it harmony when the leadership positions are all taken up by Mages?
This has never bothered me more than any other form of government where status is determined by blood, which on Thedas is all of them. It's an issue for when they figure out democracy, in my opinion.
Creator's underpants i just snorted like a nug! ( Do they even snort?)
OK here's the joke i just found: (Totally unrelated to elves but bear with me!)
How many tickles does it take to make an octopus laugh?
Ten-Tickles!!!!! 
Speaking of Inquisitor elves in the game, I've been having a little bit of trouble rationalizing having a Dalish Elf wanting to keep Dorian around, but I also don't feel like skipping out on all his content with her.
Anyone else having a personal conundrum along those lines?
Until we know more I'm going with Dorian has intel on the Venatori. The Inquisitor doesn't have to like everyone in the Inquisition they just have to be useful. If Vivianne is snotty and has a Better Mage Than Thou attitude I can't see my dalish mage warming up to her very quickly either.
harmony is made by people and their customs to outsiders its evil to them its harmony everybody has a role in the clan. Its like a watered down tevinterWell, that all depends on your perspective. Is it harmony when the leadership positions are all taken up by Mages?
Dalish are much better off than the City Elves. But This is because they have opted to live separate from humans instead of as their subjects. It's another thing many people here often repeat as a point against the Dalish: That Dalish elves claim they are oppressed by humans but City Elves are the true victims of human oppression. But the very fact that it is true suggests the Dalish way of life has merit.
I fail to see how opting to live oppressive conditions and in poverty has helped City Elves grow as a people in a context where it has not with the Dalish elves.
Hold on there. I didn't say that the city elves were benefiting from ignoring their ancestors' culture. What I said was that the strict adherence to that culture hasn't benefited the Dalish in any way. They have been nomadic for centuries and live in fear of humans... they have made no progress in all the years they have existed according to their ideology, so I don't see any real benefit in holding onto it. Perhaps if they hadn't segregated themselves from the rest of the elven population, they might have been able to make a stronger push for equality long ago... we can only speculate at this point... all we can really speak on is reality, and the reality is that living by the old ways has not helped the Dalish.
You must also keep in mind that it is the Dalish who claim superiority, not the other way around. As such, any argument regarding cultural superiority can only apply to the Dalish, since the city elves have made no such statement. If the Dalish claim that they are superior, then it is their responsibility to prove this.
Not all Dalish elves look down on City Elves, but the value of remembering old elven lore is supposed to be it's own reward because it offers stronger ties to their heritage. And it's in preparation for a day when the the elves can practice their religion and culture without fear and/or with a state of their own. It lets them maintain culture of their own to ward off the fear of assimilation.
I think you're also looking at the value of the old ways backwards. The Dalish want a state so they can preserve their culture. They don't want to preserve their culture so it will give them a state.
The problem is that the Dalish have done nothing towards gaining a new homeland in 700 years... at this point it's almost farcical that they continue to cling to traditions that have no practical applications or benefits. I suppose it's useful for them to be able to tame animals and produce skilled hunters, but if they focused more on finding someplace to settle down, those things would become largely irrelevant...
My Wardens were city elves (Tabris and Surana) so I don't mind having to mix it up this game.
I like the Dalish and have no problem with the decision with the Inquisitor, but I do hope the next game has a city elf, for the sake of balance in my canon. Had a Dalish big guddamn hero in Origins, so I ought to have a City Elf one sometime down the road too I reckon.
XD yeah well thankfully I got my beautiful Qunari ladies to make 
But I wanna be able to play my elven lasses too. (hopefully with less twig arm...) 
He's an ally and willing to help the Inquisition out, and not even a representative of Tevinter anymore. Easier than keeping Iron Bull.
The Qunari don't have anything like the same kind of negative history with the elves as the Imperium does. Nor done anything like the kind of permanent damage to elven culture. Even the Fall of the Dales is relatively minor in comparison and conceivably fixable, but most of the ancient elvhen is gone forever. Plus they may or may not have stolen their immortality.
Although I haven't decided if my Dalish Mage is going to believe in the stories of the Quickening yet.
XD yeah well thankfully I got my beautiful Qunari ladies to make
Yeah, I'd like to get an elf pro-tag streak going this game, but female Qunari is too tempting. 
I think not everything bad about the Dalish looking for their heritage.
They are already different from what the elves used to be , their empire and culture crumbled ...they build a new culture with bits and pieces , and I'm pretty sure it's heavily influenced by their nomadic lifestyle.
At one point , they will have to think about where they are going .Probably going to happen when/if they get a land.
The main good and bad is , as far as I can tell , their old empire was very pro magic , and they were better than current mages.Humans and Dalish alike.
Finding about the old mysteries might help a great deal.There's a lot of magical trouble in Thedas .
Now the thing about lost history is we have no idea if the ancient elves went through some magical catastrophe too.
I'm unsure if the Eluvians are 100% safe for example.
And the red lyrium idol in DA2 is an example of "Please don't touch magical creepy things , they are hidden and lost for a reason."
I don't want to go on a Merrill debate , but we saw her willing to loose a lot to regain pieces of the past ...and her clan who was ready to leave some things behind and move on.
Possible we will see more case like this , with some Dalish eager to embrace and reclaim a magical past , and others who feel like some things are best forgotten.
Considering one just tried to kill them for wandering too close to where they were squatting I don't blame them.
No I can blame Velanna for being a stupid racist murderess.
Considering how Tamlen leaves the fate of the 3 humans up to Mahariel, I really doubt that he 'tried to kill them'. Not to mention that he stopped them because they wandered too close to the camp, which normally would end up with more humans following to oust the Dalish (which is exactly what happens). Also, 'squatting'? The only time Clan Sabrae actually 'squatted' anywhere was on Sundermount and that was entirely out of their hands (ok, Act III is iffy, but you get what I mean). Besides, they weren't staying there any longer than they needed to, anyway.
The only reason why she started destroying human caravans is because she thought that humans had kidnapped Seranni, despite that not being the case. If the Architect hadn't wiped out the clan and taken Seranni, Velanna wouldn't have started on her rampage.
Hold on there. I didn't say that the city elves were benefiting from ignoring their ancestors' culture. What I said was that the strict adherence to that culture hasn't benefited the Dalish in any way. They have been nomadic for centuries and live in fear of humans... they have made no progress in all the years they have existed according to their ideology, so I don't see any real benefit in holding onto it. Perhaps if they hadn't segregated themselves from the rest of the elven population, they might have been able to make a stronger push for equality long ago... we can only speculate at this point... all we can really speak on is reality, and the reality is that living by the old ways has not helped the Dalish.
I think that's almost certainly not the case. City Elves are essentially powerless. Humans are hardly inclined to give them anything at all, and since City Elves outnumber Dalish anyway, I don't see why adding a few more would make the slightest bit of difference. Segregating themselves is what allows the Dalish to avoid the worse aspects of human oppression that the City Elves suffer. The recent rebellion in Halamshiral is probably the best proof of that there is. Have the City Elves made any progress that puts them in better position than any Dalish elves?
The problem is that the Dalish have done nothing towards gaining a new homeland in 700 years... at this point it's almost farcical that they continue to cling to traditions that have no practical applications or benefits. I suppose it's useful for them to be able to tame animals and produce skilled hunters, but if they focused more on finding someplace to settle down, those things would become largely irrelevant...
Do they have any less benefit than being poor Andrastian citizens of human nations? If the Dalish tried to settle down, humans would stop them. Being nomadic is what is practical for the Dalish. The alternative is just to surrender.
Have fun you guys
Hopefully DA4 has some city elves so I can get in the elf loving again.
I will play an Elf regardless (because Solas, and for tradition) but I don't like Dalish in any way. Is hard find a positive Dalish elf. The only ones I liked or felt where at least tolerable where Velanna, Ariane, Merrill and Lanaya.
two of them where banished by their own clans, one was born a City Elf. So where big axception to the rules. And Ariane would have been fed to the Varterrall by my Warden if she dared say something bad about City Elves.
I can only hope in Inquisition we can have the chance to roleplay a Dalish who is very annoyed by the ways of her people. 
The Qunari don't have anything like the same kind of negative history with the elves as the Imperium does. Nor done anything like the kind of permanent damage to elven culture. Even the Fall of the Dales is relatively minor in comparison and conceivably fixable, but most of the ancient elvhen is gone forever. Plus they may or may not have stolen their immortality.
Although I haven't decided if my Dalish Mage is going to believe in the stories of the Quickening yet.
Believe me, I won't shy away from calling Dorian on Tevinter's actions if I get the opportunity. However, he's opposed to the practices that made Tevinter what it is and which destroyed Arlathan, so I won't kick him out based solely on national origin.
They've proven that it's possible to live in harmony with mages outside the Chantry's umbrella. That's quite a bit of value.
Do the Dalish need to change? Sure. But so does everyone in Thedas, and I'd say the Dalish need to change less than some, at least in terms of cultural values. And it'll be easier not to fear once they have a land of their own and can properly secure it.
The Dalish are well-prepared for abominations in the event that they threaten the clan, that is true. It also helps that they tend to be small communities with few mages to deal with than a large human city or individual cities and villages within a single nation. I'm not sure exactly how their culture contributes to this relative safety, but perhaps the two are related... after all, if the Chantry didn't attempt to quarantine mages, then they'd only have to deal with maleficarum and abominations, not rebels in addition to the first two groups.
In any case, I fully agree with the second point... the Dalish need to change, but it likely won't happen until they settle down somewhere. Living in the wilderness and spread out across several nations just isn't working. Whatever lost lore they insist on gathering and preserving, it's not going to do them any good unless they simultaneously seek out a permanent settlement. IMO it's more of a distraction at this point than anything else, because it's causing them to loose sight of the real problems they face...
Yeah, I'd like to get an elf pro-tag streak going this game, but female Qunari is too tempting.
I'm gonna be such a troll. XD
I will play an Elf regardless (because Solas, and for tradition) but I don't like Dalish in any way. Is hard find a positive Dalish elf. The only ones I liked or felt where at least tolerable where Velanna, Ariane, Merrill and Lanaya.
two of them where banished by their own clans, one was born a City Elf. So where big axception to the rules. And Ariane would have been fed to the Varterrall by my Warden if she dared say something bad about City Elves.
I can only hope in Inquisition we can have the chance to roleplay a Dalish who is very annoyed by the ways of her people.
I hope so too. Maybe if you can rp being annoyed enough with the dalish ways (and probably willingly parts from them at the end of Inquisition) I might be tempted to make on but at the moment I'm pretty meeeh.
The Dalish are well-prepared for abominations in the event that they threaten the clan, that is true. It also helps that they tend to be small communities with few mages to deal with than a large human city or individual cities and villages within a single nation. I'm not sure exactly how their culture contributes to this relative safety, but perhaps the two are related... after all, if the Chantry didn't attempt to quarantine mages, then they'd only have to deal with maleficarum and abominations, not rebels in addition to the first two groups.
In any case, I fully agree with the second point... the Dalish need to change, but it likely won't happen until they settle down somewhere. Living in the wilderness and spread out across several nations just isn't working. Whatever lost lore they insist on gathering and preserving, it's not going to do them any good unless they simultaneously seek out a permanent settlement. IMO it's more of a distraction at this point than anything else, because it's causing them to loose sight of the real problems they face...
The main obstacle there, of course, is the other human nations. Which makes me think that the current crisis may be the best time to carve out something and then establish relations with a neighbor that wouldn't lead to destruction.
I think that's almost certainly not the case. City Elves are essentially powerless. Humans are hardly inclined to give them anything at all, and since City Elves outnumber Dalish anyway, I don't see why adding a few more would make the slightest bit of difference. Segregating themselves is what allows the Dalish to avoid the worse aspects of human oppression that the City Elves suffer. The recent rebellion in Halamshiral is probably the best proof of that there is. Have the City Elves made any progress that puts them in better position than any Dalish elves?
That was only speculation... I mean, you say that a few more elves would have been present in the alienages, but more than a few elves decided to become nomads. You never know how they might have influenced their human neighbors if they had greater numbers... but again, it's just speculation. If things had happened differently in the distant past, Halamshiral would never have existed in the first place. *shrugs*
Also, as I said, it's not the city elves that need to prove anything because the Dalish are the ones who constantly go on about how they are better and "more elven." In a hypothetical situation in which the elves never splintered, who knows what they might have accomplished?
Do they have any less benefit than being poor Andrastian citizens of human nations? If the Dalish tried to settle down, humans would stop them. Being nomadic is what is practical for the Dalish. The alternative is just to surrender.
On human lands, yes, as would be the humans' right. I am proposing that the Dalish seek out unsettled land beyond the boundaries of the known world... whether it works or not isn't even the issue. They haven't even attempted to do this or anything similar in centuries... at some point the Dalish are going to need to figure out a new plan... wandering in the wilderness of humanity's land isn't cutting it.
The main obstacle there, of course, is the other human nations. Which makes me think that the current crisis may be the best time to carve out something and then establish relations with a neighbor that wouldn't lead to destruction.
That sounds risky, but endless wandering isn't a viable option... hopefully the writers come up with something that doesn't lead to the elves being exterminated a few years after settling down. If they leave peacefully I see things staying peaceful, but if they attack and attempt to reconquer the Dales... hm... I used to think that was a reasonable plan, but now I'm not so sure...
Personally I'm really in favor of a mass exodus to the Donarks... send out some scouts in advance to make sure it's not full of darkspawn or something, but the Dalish are not going to be safe until they are out of the human lands. And if anybody is living in the Donarks... well, they aren't part of the White Chantry, so nobody will ever know if they are killed and their land stolen... 
That sounds risky, but endless wandering isn't a viable option... hopefully the writers come up with something that doesn't lead to the elves being exterminated a few years after settling down. If they leave peacefully I see things staying peaceful, but if they attack and attempt to reconquer the Dales... hm... I used to think that was a reasonable plan, but now I'm not so sure...
The Dales are meaningless, comparatively. I want to see them make a stab at Arlathan, personally.
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