2121 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdrubael Vect]

So either be a mage, have a mage child.  That seems rather long odds to me.

or go for army, mercenaries, pirates(felicima armada to fight with Qunari) or trade..or go for criminal and become slaver

 

noone give you somethink for free no matter who you would be...human, elf or dwarf...and being a mage as a noble and magister does not give you everything, you must deserve it by working for imperrium...this is not orlais when you can be stupid  idiot and do not do anything because you have noble title and heritable chivaliers and bards who would do everything for you and drive the bees from you pants

 

elves, dwarfs have the same rights as humans in Tevinter what is meritocraty

[Daerog]

They eventually created their own Chantry too.

 

One could argue that they made their Chantry first, before Drakon, and that they just complied with Drakon's Chantry in order to have international unity, but couldn't stand the twisting of the Chant and just went back to their original form.

[pengwin21]

Nope, in fact one of the earliest noted exceptions on the elf=poor issue was Tevinter. There are rich elves in Tevinter precisely because they can sell themselves into slavery to provide for their families.

 

As opposed to say good old Ferelden, where they can be instrumental in its liberation [Loghain's Night Elves] and never recieve recognition for it. Worse still, with in a few years be clandestinely sold into slavery by the very commander that initially recognized their worth because it was convenient. 

 

Tevinter is not a nice place, but I'd take its honest attitude over filthy dog-lords' hypocrisy and treachery. 

 

Well to be fair, what Loghain did was illegal. Loghain is probably not the best example of Fereldan government (hiring blood mages to assassinate politcal rivals, attempting to kill off all the Grey Wardens during a Blight etc.)

[Daerog]

Loghain was wrong on some things, but he was oddly spot on when it came to Orlais.

[KaiserShep]

If you're right--if this is a matter of extinction for the entire elven race--then all necessary measures must be taken to ensure its survival. The most effective solution I can think of right now is disease; a magically engineered one (it's strongly implied that this was the cause of the Alienage plague in DAO, so I suspect it's possible, but this would need to be far more virulent) that could be relatively easily distributed thanks to the mobility of the Dalish clans. The mortality rate would need to be high enough to cut the human population down to a manageable level, and the Dalish would have to be ready to flee military retaliation at all times, though with luck, any armies that went after them would be too sickened to go far.

Obviously, this would be a last resort--but if it is, as you say, likely to end up in the extinction of the elves if it goes any farther on its present course, it's us or them.

 

The human race is nothing if not resilient. There's nothing the elves have at their disposal that the humans don't. They will simply counteract it and keep on going. At best, they would be none the wiser. At worst, they'd discover who did it and whole forests would be burned down to drive back the Dalish, and ultimately they'd be wiped out for good. I mean, if I was the ruler of a country set upon by some crazy plague, and I got wind that the Dalish were behind it, I would decree that all Dalish clans are killed on sight and nothing would be left of their camps but smoldering dirt. It's a pretty risky proposition for them that seems very low chances of any kind of reward.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Really? I'd sell myself into slavery in a heartbeat if it meant my children and grand-children could have a better life. Which is exactly the deal Tevinter offers. Tevinter is not a nice place, but at least they are honest about what they are. Further more, Tevinter will honor such societal bargains, because that 'honesty' is a part of what keeps the system going, after all there is a reason why many elves chose to stay even after Andraste freed them.

 

Compare that to the 'good' human countries where a successful elf is just beaten down, robbed and/or killed the moment they move out of the alienage and I know which system I'd rather be a part of. 

 

And what if someone sells them into slavery afterward? Tevinter is honest that might makes right, so if a Magister decides to gruesomely execute their elves, they can. An "honest" horrible place is still much worse to me than a slightly less honest place that's merely bad. And Tevinter is much more horrible than any other country. I mean Loghain selling elves into slavery was still a scandal in Ferelden. In Tevinter something like that would be normal. Not only that, is there any reason to think that Tevinter elves don't face the same prejudice when leaving the alienage? The highest non mage class of people in the Imperium are the soporati, and World of Thedas says they are "overwhelmingly human."

 

Does it say anywhere that Tevinter's elves chose to stay after Andraste's Exalted March? Because I've never seen any reason to think that they weren't just prevented from leaving.

[Lulupab]

Does it say anywhere that Tevinter's elves chose to stay after Andraste's Exalted March? Because I've never seen any reason to think that they weren't just prevented from leaving.

Andraste and her army failed to invade mainland Tevinter aka the lands they are holding right now. So maybe the elves over there couldn't leave?

[Asdrubael Vect]

Loghain was wrong on some things, but he was oddly spot on when it came to Orlais.

only 1 thing was wrong...he want to kill fereldens grey wardens

[Ryzaki]

The human race is nothing if not resilient. There's nothing the elves have at their disposal that the humans don't. They will simply counteract it and keep on going. At best, they would be none the wiser. At worst, they'd discover who did it and whole forests would be burned down to drive back the Dalish, and ultimately they'd be wiped out for good. I mean, if I was the ruler of a country set upon by some crazy plague, and I got wind that the Dalish were behind it, I would decree that all Dalish clans are killed on sight and nothing would be left of their camps but smoldering dirt. It's a pretty risky proposition for them that seems very low chances of any kind of reward.

 

yep that sounds like something that would backfire exponentially.

 

not really worth it.

 

The dalish really do not want or need all of humanity as their enemy.

[Daerog]

Fenris' sister could have moved away, especially when she came to Kirkwall. Instead, she was willing to give up her brother in order to get a leg up in Tevinter society.

 

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

[TheJediSaint]

yep that sounds like something that would backfire exponentially.

 

not really worth it.

 

The dalish really do not want or need all of humanity as their enemy.

Also, if there was some magical option for the elves to deal with humans, you'd think the ancient Arlathan elves would've used it.

[The Baconer]

Well to be fair, what Loghain did was illegal. Loghain is probably not the best example of Fereldan government (hiring blood mages to assassinate politcal rivals, attempting to kill off all the Grey Wardens during a Blight etc.)

 

That it was illegal only matters because Loghain lost the game.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Loghain was wrong on some things, but he was oddly spot on when it came to Orlais.

 

Well he wasn't right that they were a greater threat than the darkspawn.

[RobRam10]

Fenris' sister could have moved away, especially when she came to Kirkwall. Instead, she was willing to give up her brother in order to get a leg up in Tevinter society.

 

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

Elves serve Tevinter willingly :

"I am Tevinter first and a servant of the Minrathous Circle second, those are the things that matter." - Devera

[Reznore57]

 

Does it say anywhere that Tevinter's elves chose to stay after Andraste's Exalted March? Because I've never seen any reason to think that they weren't just prevented from leaving.

 

Andraste never managed to take Minrathous , so I suppose northern Tevinter slaves weren't freed.

Also I remember a text about the Long Walk to Halamshiral saying some elves went back to Tevinter , because the journey was too harsh and lots of elves were dying.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Fenris' sister could have moved away, especially when she came to Kirkwall. Instead, she was willing to give up her brother in order to get a leg up in Tevinter society.

 

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

 

Greeb is good, greeb is right....

[TheJediSaint]

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

From what we've seen so far, Tevinter culture values power above all else.  At least until Dorian provides a counter point.

[Ryzaki]

Also, if there was some magical option for the elves to deal with humans, you'd think the ancient Arlathan elves would've used it.

 

Yep that too. 

 

And they'll successfully ****** off the major powers enough to unite against them. I don't see that ending well for the dalish. Not at all.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Fenris' sister could have moved away, especially when she came to Kirkwall. Instead, she was willing to give up her brother in order to get a leg up in Tevinter society.

 

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

the same reason as Varrick kill his brother and Hawke his and many others for the same reason..you know blood relative does not really make thing change

 

If i would be Varania i would kill Fenris for what he did for his family when he gets his tattoo and was a personal bodyguard who live in luxury with his lover Danarius

[pengwin21]

That it was illegal only matters because Loghain lost the game.

 

Well it means that it isn't a reoccurring thing in Fereldan- city elves do not regularly have to fear being sold into slavery.

[Ryzaki]

Fenris' sister could have moved away, especially when she came to Kirkwall. Instead, she was willing to give up her brother in order to get a leg up in Tevinter society.

 

Why? I have no idea, we haven't been to Tevinter yet, but I found it odd that she saw more value in gaining power in Tevinter than living in Kirkwall with her brother.

 

Ugh that wench.

 

I'm guessing a magister's apprentice probably lives fairly well in Tevinter and would have the respect an elf wouldn't get in any other human society. Just guessing tho.

[KaiserShep]

Yep that too. 

 

And they'll successfully ****** off the major powers enough to unite against them. I don't see that ending well for the dalish. Not at all.

 

It doesn't help that the Dalish are not exactly a unified society either, considering that they keep very distant relations with sister tribes, and do not have any formal, efficient method of communication. Basically, it would most likely be the work of one particular tribe that got its collective minds together to conjure up this idea, screwing over other tribes that have no idea what's going on, and many of them would settle far too close to a human-populated area and would probably have no idea what's in store for them.

[The Baconer]

Well it means that it isn't a reoccurring thing in Fereldan- city elves do not regularly have to fear being sold into slavery.

 

That we know of.

[Lulupab]

That we know of.

There are actual slaves in Orlais nobility, guess where they get them from.

[Drasanil]

And what if someone sells them into slavery afterward? Tevinter is honest that might makes right, so if a Magister decides to gruesomely execute their elves, they can. An "honest" horrible place is still much worse to me than a slightly less honest place that's merely bad. And Tevinter is much more horrible than any other country. I mean Loghain selling elves into slavery was still a scandal in Ferelden. In Tevinter something like that would be normal. Not only that, is there any reason to think that Tevinter elves don't face the same prejudice when leaving the alienage? The highest non mage class of people in the Imperium are the soporati, and World of Thedas says they are "overwhelmingly human."

 

1) No, it wasn't. One nobles voices disapproval for the notion but no one really cared. In fact I'm pretty sure it was one of the charges that shifted the landsmeet the least, if not at all, against Loghain.

 

2) "Overwhelmingly human" considering that dwarves are never considered to be citizens, that means there are at least some elves are members of the soporati class. As opposed to say in 'nice' countries, where all elves are either alienage wage slaves [which is actually worse than being a slave, since people at least have an actual incentive to look after their own property, even if that property is other people] or members of the circle/apostates/dalish. 

 

 

Does it say anywhere that Tevinter's elves chose to stay after Andraste's Exalted March? Because I've never seen any reason to think that they weren't just prevented from leaving.

 

IIRC, it was part of one of the Tevinter Elven slave's account on the long walk to the Dales, where they were given a choice to stay or leave and they chose to leave despite the hardships and being treated relatively well by their master.