2121 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

It takes more than facial tattoos to be Dalish, and he never identifies as such. He's definitely connected to them however.

You're right. It takes xenophobia to be Dalish as well. 

 

Or Felassan could have been a spy for a lot of time, and the only way not to arise suspicion among the Dalish was to pretend he was one of them, so that's a person taking advantage of Dalish assumptions to blend in. It's nothing new in Thedas; it's been stated that Qunari elven spies may sell themselves back as slaves to infiltrate the Imperium. Accepting to have some tattoos is actually a minor sacrifice in comparison.

 

Seriously, why are we looking for other clans or cultures to have Dalish tattoos when we are talking about a spy who was working for the Big Bad?

I wonder if we can disown the tattoos like that? Be able to say something like "They forced me to have them" rather than variations of "These are very important to me".

[BronzTrooper]

After reading Freddie Prinze Jr's Tweet about IB's romance... I'm starting to think that people are going to headcanon that IB and Zevran did it at one point prior to DA:I.  

 

... no, brain!  I don't need to visualize that!  

[Xilizhra]

You're right. It takes xenophobia to be Dalish as well. 

 

As much as it takes Tall Poppy Syndrome and xenophobia to be a city elf. Not to mention an inclination to force marriages.

 

 

I wonder if we can disown the tattoos like that? Be able to say something like "They forced me to have them" rather than variations of "These are very important to me".

Then your character logically would have left the clan before that became an issue. They didn't, ergo it wasn't a matter of being forced.

[Gervaise]

You know there is no absolute proof that Felassan was working for the big bad.  All we know is that whoever he was associated with was pretty ticked off about him letting Briala gain control of the eluvians and his refusal to take them from her.   Could just as easily have been Morrigan killing him in the Fade since she is really interested in eluvians.

 

I've re-read the Felassan bits in Masked Empire several times and am convinced that he does represent some unknown faction of elves who link directly back to Ancient Arlathan, may be the descendants of the elves that WoT said escaped capture by the Tevinter.   Clearly he takes the appearance of a Dalish so as to move among them without arousing suspicion.

 

His words to Imshael about something big coming up may refer to the big hole in the sky or simply something else that is about to happen that will shake things up considerably.     It could be the Dalish who are working (knowingly or unknowingly) for the big bad.    I'm still a bit suspicious of how our Keeper knows enough about the peace conference to send us all the way there from northern Freemarches and for us to arrive in time to witness the big event.   

 

I can't see how tearing a hole in the Veil is to the best interests of any mortal in Thedas and that if Felassan cared so much about Briala, that he wouldn't have warned her if he knew something like that was about to occur.     Felassan's killer will no doubt make an appearance in DAI but I doubt it is the Elder One.

[Xilizhra]

You know there is no absolute proof that Felassan was working for the big bad.  All we know is that whoever he was associated with was pretty ticked off about him letting Briala gain control of the eluvians and his refusal to take them from her.   Could just as easily have been Morrigan killing him in the Fade since she is really interested in eluvians.

 

I've re-read the Felassan bits in Masked Empire several times and am convinced that he does represent some unknown faction of elves who link directly back to Ancient Arlathan, may be the descendants of the elves that WoT said escaped capture by the Tevinter.   Clearly he takes the appearance of a Dalish so as to move among them without arousing suspicion.

 

His words to Imshael about something big coming up may refer to the big hole in the sky or simply something else that is about to happen that will shake things up considerably.     It could be the Dalish who are working (knowingly or unknowingly) for the big bad.    I'm still a bit suspicious of how our Keeper knows enough about the peace conference to send us all the way there from northern Freemarches and for us to arrive in time to witness the big event.   

 

I can't see how tearing a hole in the Veil is to the best interests of any mortal in Thedas and that if Felassan cared so much about Briala, that he wouldn't have warned her if he knew something like that was about to occur.     Felassan's killer will no doubt make an appearance in DAI but I doubt it is the Elder One.

The line "she had no idea how right she was" more or less says outright that the Keeper didn't know what was going to occur.

[Mistic]

I wonder if we can disown the tattoos like that? Be able to say something like "They forced me to have them" rather than variations of "These are very important to me".

 

For that to happen, someone should ask about your character's tattoos in-game, for you to provide an asnwer. Sadly, in DA:O no one cared a bit about it. I suppose it helps that tattoos are relatively common in Thedas. It was lampshaded in the Dwarven Commoner route: for the surfacers, the casteless mark is just a fancy tattoo.

 

You know there is no absolute proof that Felassan was working for the big bad.  All we know is that whoever he was associated with was pretty ticked off about him letting Briala gain control of the eluvians and his refusal to take them from her.   Could just as easily have been Morrigan killing him in the Fade since she is really interested in eluvians.

 

I've re-read the Felassan bits in Masked Empire several times and am convinced that he does represent some unknown faction of elves who link directly back to Ancient Arlathan, may be the descendants of the elves that WoT said escaped capture by the Tevinter.   Clearly he takes the appearance of a Dalish so as to move among them without arousing suspicion.

 

His words to Imshael about something big coming up may refer to the big hole in the sky or simply something else that is about to happen that will shake things up considerably.     It could be the Dalish who are working (knowingly or unknowingly) for the big bad.    I'm still a bit suspicious of how our Keeper knows enough about the peace conference to send us all the way there from northern Freemarches and for us to arrive in time to witness the big event.   

 

I can't see how tearing a hole in the Veil is to the best interests of any mortal in Thedas and that if Felassan cared so much about Briala, that he wouldn't have warned her if he knew something like that was about to occur.     Felassan's killer will no doubt make an appearance in DAI but I doubt it is the Elder One.

 

It's true that there's no definitive proof of Felassan working for the Big Bad (or for someone who does work for the Big Bad); however, it provides the easiest solution without making assumptions. Occam's razor and all that.

[Gervaise]

I'm not saying the Keeper knew about the explosion; it would be pretty bad of her to send you if that was the case.   I just think that she has some idea that something big is going to happen, more than just a Chantry peace conference regarding mages and Templars; I don't know, may the Divine had contacted the clans and hinted she was going to do something for the elves too.  However, if that were the case, surely we would have been invited officially?    It could be that there is a lot of activity/pointed remarks in the Fade which made the Keeper feel the necessity of sending someone to find out.

 

If we were a clan who actually lived on that side of the Waking Sea it would be a lot less odd.    It is the fact that we are being sent such a great distance; does the Keeper not trust the clans nearer to events to keep her informed?     Are all the other clans sending their own representatives to spy on events?    

 

If nothing else I find it interesting that with the human and qunari origins they are quite legitimately at the event, whereas with the elven and dwarven origins we are spies and so even if there is nothing odd about our presence from our point of view, clearly others are going to see it that way and construe it as suspicious.      

[Mistic]

I'm not saying the Keeper knew about the explosion; it would be pretty bad of her to send you if that was the case.   I just think that she has some idea that something big is going to happen, more than just a Chantry peace conference regarding mages and Templars; I don't know, may the Divine had contacted the clans and hinted she was going to do something for the elves too.  However, if that were the case, surely we would have been invited officially?    It could be that there is a lot of activity/pointed remarks in the Fade which made the Keeper feel the necessity of sending someone to find out.

 

If we were a clan who actually lived on that side of the Waking Sea it would be a lot less odd.    It is the fact that we are being sent such a great distance; does the Keeper not trust the clans nearer to events to keep her informed?     Are all the other clans sending their own representatives to spy on events?    

 

If nothing else I find it interesting that with the human and qunari origins they are quite legitimately at the event, whereas with the elven and dwarven origins we are spies and so even if there is nothing odd about our presence from our point of view, clearly others are going to see it that way and construe it as suspicious.

 

I think it's very clear now that the game was tailored for the human origins (nobles, one part of the Mage rebellion, the other destined to work for the Chantry), until they added the other backgrounds. Of all of them, I agree that the elven origin seems the weakest in terms of justification. The dwarf at least comes from a famous criminal gang with interests in lyrium trafficking.

 

That's not to say that a big peace meeting like the Chantry's conclave wouldn't attract the attention of every organization in Thedas. I'm sure the Qunari (not the mercenaries, the real Qunari), Tevinter, Nevarra and many others sent spies too, just in case. But the Dalish don't have a central government. I'm pretty sure that the Divine never invited them. To whom would you send the invitation? And the fact that Clan Lavellan is from the Free Marches makes it even more difficult to justify.

 

However, as I said, any person with a global outlook on things would want to know about the conclave. Sadly, the Dalish are known for their isolationist tendencies. Few in the games or in the books have expressed interest in human politics. Maybe that was the reason? Keeper Lavellan may have tried to contact Dalish clans near the Temple, in case they were trying to send their own envoys, and found out that no clan was interested. So if she wanted to know what was going to happen, the only solution was to send her First or one of their best hunters.

[Duggs007]

Despite my love for the elves..

 

My canon Warden is a Female Human Noble...

 

(FOR SHAME MYSELF)

 

But I still love my Warden to the bottom of my heart!

 

DON'T FRET MYSELF! MY INQUISITOR WILL BE AN ELF

[A Clever Name]

I think it's very clear now that the game was tailored for the human origins (nobles, one part of the Mage rebellion, the other destined to work for the Chantry), until they added the other backgrounds. Of all of them, I agree that the elven origin seems the weakest in terms of justification. The dwarf at least comes from a famous criminal gang with interests in lyrium trafficking.

 

That's not to say that a big peace meeting like the Chantry's conclave wouldn't attract the attention of every organization in Thedas. I'm sure the Qunari (not the mercenaries, the real Qunari), Tevinter, Nevarra and many others sent spies too, just in case. But the Dalish don't have a central government. I'm pretty sure that the Divine never invited them. To whom would you send the invitation? And the fact that Clan Lavellan is from the Free Marches makes it even more difficult to justify.

 

However, as I said, any person with a global outlook on things would want to know about the conclave. Sadly, the Dalish are known for their isolationist tendencies. Few in the games or in the books have expressed interest in human politics. Maybe that was the reason? Keeper Lavellan may have tried to contact Dalish clans near the Temple, in case they were trying to send their own envoys, and found out that no clan was interested. So if she wanted to know what was going to happen, the only solution was to send her First or one of their best hunters.

I agree that the justification for the other origins seems weak, and it is likely because of their addition later on into the game's development.  We see that at least the Cadash choices have ties to the Carta; while our Adaar choices are always hired as bodyguards...although one would think each party would individually bring their own guards, I can see justification for this, if you consider that the Chantry likely wanted a neutral party to moderate it.  Although I'm not sure why you'd bring your Vashoth mage with you to a meeting that could very well result in the reformation of the Circles - not to mention the summit is being chaired by the Chantry.

 

With the elven origin, I do take a bit of issue with it, but I think it makes a bit more sense than at first glance.  One of the major reasons for Dalish clans remaining nomadic is that Templars can and will hunt them down for their mages.  With the news of a summit for the Mage-Templar War - which has the potential to have affected clan mobility - it could be speculated that Keeper Lavellan wanted to ensure that she knew what the outcome would entail.  If the Circles were to be restored and Templars once again taking up the mantle as enforcers, then it would be important information that she could then pass to other clans.  Vice-versa, continuation of the conflict if peace couldn't be made would be potentially damaging to the clans, or if mages were somehow allotted more freedom (although I don't know how, if the summit is being chaired by the Chantry) and Templars done away with, clans would have less to worry about.  The outcome could certainly affect the Dalish, so I believe that's why Keeper Lavellan likely sent one of her own.  There's supposed to be an Arlathvhen approaching, so I believe this is intelligence the Keeper would likely want in order to share it with the other clans.

 

How they get in to the summit is another story - I doubt the Divine would have invited the Dalish.  A mage could pose just as that, but I have no clue how a rogue or a warrior would.  I still have a difficult time justifying why she would send her First, though.  Why would you send your successor on a potentially dangerous task all the way in the Frostbacks?

[Mistic]

I agree that the justification for the other origins seems weak, and it is likely because of their addition later on into the game's development.  We see that at least the Cadash choices have ties to the Carta; while our Adaar choices are always hired as bodyguards...although one would think each party would individually bring their own guards, I can see justification for this, if you consider that the Chantry likely wanted a neutral party to moderate it.  Although I'm not sure why you'd bring your Vashoth mage with you to a meeting that could very well result in the reformation of the Circles - not to mention the summit is being chaired by the Chantry.

 

Actually , the mercenaries make a lot of sense when you remember that the Chantry is currently shorthanded after the defection of many Templars and Mages. Those Vasoth mercenaries aren't loyal to any country, so that's even better. As for the Qunari mage, I wouldn't worry; the conclave will have a lot of mages present, so it's not as if some party is going to start imprisoning mages right away.

 

With the elven origin, I do take a bit of issue with it, but I think it makes a bit more sense than at first glance.  One of the major reasons for Dalish clans remaining nomadic is that Templars can and will hunt them down for their mages.  With the news of a summit for the Mage-Templar War - which has the potential to have affected clan mobility - it could be speculated that Keeper Lavellan wanted to ensure that she knew what the outcome would entail.  If the Circles were to be restored and Templars once again taking up the mantle as enforcers, then it would be important information that she could then pass to other clans.  Vice-versa, continuation of the conflict if peace couldn't be made would be potentially damaging to the clans, or if mages were somehow allotted more freedom (although I don't know how, if the summit is being chaired by the Chantry) and Templars done away with, clans would have less to worry about.  The outcome could certainly affect the Dalish, so I believe that's why Keeper Lavellan likely sent one of her own.  There's supposed to be an Arlathvhen approaching, so I believe this is intelligence the Keeper would likely want in order to share it with the other clans.

 

I agree with those points. Also, in another thread someone suggested that the Mage-Templar War might have caused a very noticeable increase in the number of elven mages fleeing to Dalish clans. With the dangerous possibility of rebel Templars going after them and bringing problems to the Dalish. So there's an interest and there's a need.

 

The question is: why the Lavellan Clan? Why a lone clan in the Free Marches with little to no contact with humans, and by the personal decision of their Keeper? What motivated her more than other Keepers from clans that should live nearer the meeting place?

 

How they get in to the summit is another story - I doubt the Divine would have invited the Dalish.  A mage could pose just as that, but I have no clue how a rogue or a warrior would.  I still have a difficult time justifying why she would send her First, though.  Why would you send your successor on a potentially dangerous task all the way in the Frostbacks?

 

I think it's a matter of value versus effectiveness. A First is very valuable. It's a mage and those are rare. Maybe the clan has more than one mage, like Zathrian's clan, so the Keeper can always train another one, but it's a waste. However, the First is also the one with the best education after the Keeper herself. He or she should understand much better what's being discussed in the conclave, including the possible ramifications, than a hunter, no matter how skilled they are. On the other hand, a hunter is trained for survival, so they have more chances to survive the mission.

 

Oh, and let's not overlook the importance of losing one of the best hunters in a nomadic society. It would be like losing a good deal of fertile lands for a kingdom.

 

Of course, we are playing those characters, so our hunter will understand very well what he or she hears and our First will always survive no matter how dangerous the trip may be. But that's metagaming.

[jlb524]

I think it's a matter of value versus effectiveness. A First is very valuable. It's a mage and those are rare. Maybe the clan has more than one mage, like Zathrian's clan, so the Keeper can always train another one, but it's a waste. However, the First is also the one with the best education after the Keeper herself. He or she should understand much better what's being discussed in the conclave, including the possible ramifications, than a hunter, no matter how skilled they are. On the other hand, a hunter is trained for survival, so they have more chances to survive the mission.

 

I don't see how a First would necessarily understand more of what's going on at the Conclave than a hunter.  It's not a meeting to discuss magical theories in great detail.  It's mostly human religion/politics (specifically, what the Chantry should do with the mages).  Neither Dalish background would have much experience with it but I'm sure the outcome would be easy enough to understand for both the First or hunter.

 

I would send the hunter since they definitely have a better chance of reaching the Conclave in the first place.  A typical First won't have the wilderness survival skills of a hunter and would probably take longer to make the trip (gets lost more than a hunter who would also be the clan's scout).

[animedreamer]

My Elf is in my Avatar, though I suppose I could also place my new Elf as well.

Magnus Mahariel, Dalish Mage (Mod)

 

 

 

Tali Tabris 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As much as it takes Tall Poppy Syndrome and xenophobia to be a city elf. Not to mention an inclination to force marriages.

Actually, City Elves don't have TPS since the people who resent them are human, and thus is racism, and/or Dalish Elves, which is TPS. And the fact that they live and work with others races proves there is no xenophobia there, or at least nothing even close to the Dalish's "Keep Humans away and we will become immortal again.". 

 

 

Then your character logically would have left the clan before that became an issue. They didn't, ergo it wasn't a matter of being forced.

So I am forced to only be a Pro-Dalish Dalish? Thanks for confirming my fears. 

 

 

For that to happen, someone should ask about your character's tattoos in-game, for you to provide an asnwer. Sadly, in DA:O no one cared a bit about it. I suppose it helps that tattoos are relatively common in Thedas. It was lampshaded in the Dwarven Commoner route: for the surfacers, the casteless mark is just a fancy tattoo.

So there is no point in even having them, and thus no point in forcing players to have them. Great. 

[foolishquinn]

Couple thoughts:

-If elves are given a homeland, it'll dissolve into infighting and incompetence from its government, unless it is a strictly Dalish nation, in which case it would just wither in isolation or start another war. If they are given a nation that is a vassal state, then they have a chance to at least start the groundwork for a stable nation.

-If city elves want to have rights, they need to stop encouraging their children to live isolated in the ghettos and discouraging them from trying to break out. In Origins, all we saw was elves mocking the elves who tried to live outside the alienage, who tried to live with humans... how can they expect to be on the same footing as humans when they put up their own obstacles on top of humans placing obstacles on them?

I would like to support Briala and Gaspard in order for Gaspard to honor the help of the elves by either improving the alienages or, as farfetched as it is, setting up a vassal elf state.

I wasn't planning on playing an elf, but the elf pictures that have been posted look pretty neat... maybe I'll try out a Dalish elf with xenophobic issues that he/she will
grow out of.

I agree with this, its quite similar to irish history in the time of the english oppucation. Some elements are similar like segration, begrugement of better living standards etc.

Long rant to say I agree with you and I have no likes left.


te]

[Mistic]

So there is no point in even having them, and thus no point in forcing players to have them. Great. 

 

No, it shows the character is Dalish. That's the point. No one would care if not for the fact that there isn't any other available Elf origin in DA:I.

 

Trying to deny the Dalish tattoos in the Dalish Inquisitor is like denying the noble family for the Human Inquisitor, the mercenary group for the Qunari Inquisitor or the Carta membership for the Dwarf Inquisitor. It's part of the background. You take it or not, but that's the deal. I'm sure that if our Dwarf happened to be casteless instead of surfacer, we would have to deal with the casteless tattoo.

 

So I am forced to only be a Pro-Dalish Dalish? Thanks for confirming my fears. 

 

Not really. Unless we are forced to play pro-Circle Human Mages, pro-Chantry Human Warriors, pro-Carta dwarves and Qunari fond of mercenary life too. In which case it would be worrisome.

 

But in general, I think it's a matter of not having anything better. The Human Noble background already implies that the character may not be interested in a Chantry career; nevertheless, the fact is that they went through it for years as expected of their family. Nothing says that the Dwarf enjoys working for gangsters, yet maybe they didn't have a better choice at the time. The Qunari might want to do something different with their life, but I suspect that there aren't many job offers for their race in Thedas. The same way, the Lavellan Clan is said not to have a lot of contact with the outside world, so life in the clan may be the only life the Inquisitor has known, even if they didn't like it.

[Drasanil]

So I am forced to only be a Pro-Dalish Dalish? Thanks for confirming my fears. 

 

You're not race-gated to Solas and Sera romances only [as a real pro-dalish would be], so I would say you're going to get at least a bit of leeway.

[Icy Magebane]

So I am forced to only be a Pro-Dalish Dalish? Thanks for confirming my fears. 

That isn't going to happen.  Even the Dalish Warden had the option of being disrespectful to Zathrian's clan.

[SamanthaJ]

So I am forced to only be a Pro-Dalish Dalish? Thanks for confirming my fears. 

 

 

So there is no point in even having them, and thus no point in forcing players to have them. Great. 

Those are some big conclusions to make based on comments from fellow forumites. 

[dragonflight288]

Those are some big conclusions to make based on comments from fellow forumites. 

 

Some people are determined to be bitter about something. The Dalish are probably one of the most hated groups in the entire Dragon Age universe by forumites for some reason, so many of them are automatically assuming the worst about the dalish inquisitor based on their own perceptions. 

 

Strange how these negative views on what they may be forced to believe are limited to the Dalish only by these same people. 

[Duggs007]

My Elf is in my Avatar, though I suppose I could also place my new Elf as well.

Magnus Mahariel, Dalish Mage (Mod)

 

 

 

Tali Tabris 

 

 

They look sooooooooooo amazing.

 

That face of the girl, is sooooooo my Inquisitor!!!

[Br3admax]

Some people are determined to be bitter about something. The Dalish are probably one of the most hated groups in the entire Dragon Age universe by forumites for some reason, so many of them are automatically assuming the worst about the dalish inquisitor based on their own perceptions. 

 

Strange how these negative views on what they may be forced to believe are limited to the Dalish only by these same people. 

1. Creates curses that plagues Fereldan for centuries. 

2. Summons extremely demons just to turn on mirrors, said demon then massacres clan.  

3. Kills someone just for being human and too close to their camps

4. Threatens you for seven years

5. In that time they continue to remind you just how many people are planning to kill you at a moment's notice

6. The best way to prevent possession is to be possessed. 

7. Ostracizing city elves 

8. Sacking cities

9. Siting out of Blights 

 

I too wonder why people hate the Dalish so much. 

[BronzTrooper]

Hey, let's try to keep things positive, alright?  

 

What's your favorite type of personality for your elven characters?

[raging_monkey]

Hey, let's try to keep things positive, alright?  
 
What's your favorite type of personality for your elven characters?

so far its short-tempered but heart full of gold

[Xilizhra]

Actually, City Elves don't have TPS since the people who resent them are human, and thus is racism, and/or Dalish Elves, which is TPS. And the fact that they live and work with others races proves there is no xenophobia there, or at least nothing even close to the Dalish's "Keep Humans away and we will become immortal again.". 

I was referring to those city elves who resent their fellows who move up in the world, leave the Alienage and be successful, or just rock the boat in any way. The xenophobia is pretty much the same as those of other Andrastians, and the forced marriages are still a problem.