I understood your point to be that that Dalish aren't responsible with magic, which is true in a number of cases. I just disagree with you citing Marithari as an example. She wasn't irresponsible, she was driven to a desperate action because Merrill was.
She was still irresponsible, no matter her intentions or motivations
>Dalish don't screw up
>ignore those Dalish they don't count
Zathrian, Merrill, Marethari, Thelhen, Velanna, clearly are trustworthy and able to use magic responsibly and/-
oh I can't keep a straight face with this
Yeah, parents don't start hanging out with drug addicts because their kids do. Marithari's an idiot; Merrill being one doesn't change that.
I was wondering when you would show up.
Oh, see? you are so wrong about this. Zathrian didn't screw up, he knew exactly what he was doing and cast a completely successful ritual. Did he became possessed like Uldred? NO. Same applies to others as well. I already explained Merril, she was a pariah and Marethari sacrificed herself to protect her. d
Marethari bound a pride demon aka the strongest demon on Thedas to her own life so that it can be killed when she dies. FYI in whole history of Thedas only a handful of pride demons were killed and half of them by the hand of PCs and one by hand of Wynne and Faith.
"This blood magic ritual meant to ensnare generations of innocent people in perpetual beasthood went off without a hitch" -no responsible mage, ever
(side note, Despair demons are the most powerful I believe, or was it Terror...) its still not responsible of her to get possessed, or allow such insanity to continue
You mean when Michel frees it? Because that's what happened.
Given it could exert power outside of the barrier I've never been convinced that it actually was truly trapped.
It seemed to be humoring the elves and not much else.
I mean they were all dead the second their keeper said "hey, you know what's a good idea? Summoning demons and making deals with them"
.... as much as I like the Dalish, I think we should just stop bringing them up period. Especially if all that happens is arguments that don't seem to end... 
*offers cig* believe me this crap got old months ago for me........ as much as I like the Dalish, I think we should just stop bringing them up period. Especially if all that happens is arguments that don't seem to end...
*offers cig* believe me this crap got old months ago for me....
Im sick of elf debates and MT/chantry debates they devolve very quickly.
you can always spin by the ME forums and see a geth/quarian debate or Cerberus/Alliance
as milq from paragon lost said "wait what no **** that!!!!!" Bunch a savages makes us seem tame as reasonable *shudders*you can always spin by the ME forums and see a geth/quarian debate or Cerberus/Alliance
Is Massively still around?you can always spin by the ME forums and see a geth/quarian debate or Cerberus/Alliance
Is Massively still around?
alas no, he got banned and is currently deployed
the ME cousin seem like they have a high ban ratealas no, he got banned and is currently deployed
Damn that takes all the fun out of Cerberus debates.alas no, he got banned and is currently deployed
Damn that takes all the fun out of Cerberus debates.
he'll be back
Good. I suspect the lead up to ME4 wouldn't be the same without him.he'll be back
Given it could exert power outside of the barrier I've never been convinced that it actually was truly trapped.
It seemed to be humoring the elves and not much else.
It's power was nullified by the spirit trap. He needed Michel's help to get out. If Imshael could have left at any time then his whole shtick about choices and consequences was meaningless because Michel's choice changed nothing.
you can always spin by the ME forums and see a geth/quarian debate or Cerberus/Alliance
Alas, the allure is gone. The lack of David and Plantiff has left a void that no amount of saying, "Liara is the best, and the Asari are never wrong," "There's no such thing as auto-dialogue," "I'll kill you so robots can be people," or "BioWare is always right and Shepard isn't stupid," can ever fill.
alas no, he got banned and is currently deployed
Don't forget david and heroism 
Don't forget david and heroism
HEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOISM
Alas, the allure is gone. The lack of David and Plantiff as left a void that no amount of saying, "Liara is the best, and the Asari are never wrong," "There's no such thing as auto-dialogue," "I'll kill you so robots can be people," or "BioWare is always right and Shepard isn't stupid," can ever fill.
idk the death threat was pretty fun
Only if you assume we'll win the war. They are many.
Don't forget david and heroism
Dat Characterization tbh.
With regard to Zathrian, I think the moral of his tale is the same as that in Last Flight, when you use blood magic, whether your intentions are good or ill, there is an inherent element of risk involved as to the outcome, quite apart from the possibility of possession. You think you are controlling the outcome but it may spiral out of control in some way that you did not foresee. In Zathrian's case he wanted to curse the humans who killed his children but it ended up being something that went far beyond that and even affected his own clan.
In some ways Merrill was the same, it seemed like a simple thing, cleansing her mirror with blood magic and she thought there was no problem provided she was willing to accept any negative elements herself, but it spiralled out of control and could ultimately end in the death of her entire clan. Still I don't want to clog up an elven support thread with a debate on the merits of blood magic.
No race or group in Thedas seems free of prejudice; there is always going to be someone who feels someone else is to blame for the situation. I quite liked playing the elf mage in DAO because it seemed to me that all the normal prejudices against humans could be dropped in favour of a specific complaint about the Chantry/Templar's treatment of mages. Effectively humans and elves had banded together against a common foe, similar to the Grey Wardens where dwarves are also thrown into the mix whatever their caste. As a consequence my elf mage found the transition between the two far easier because she was already in that sort of mind set where you accept others are equals no matter what their race or class in life. However, we have subsequently been shown that in fact in the Circle of Magi that was not the case and the children of nobles seem to get far better treatment than the children of human peasants or alienage elves.
I think there is scope for not being a xenophobic Dalish. Mahariel's father was a Keeper who spoke out about having more contact with and learning from humans. We are constantly told that the clans are not the same and have been growing apart over the years. The very fact that our Keeper wants to send a member of her clan hundreds of miles to check out some Chantry gathering suggests that she is not a complete isolationist or a) we would never have heard about the gathering in the first place and 
she would simply retreat back further into the forests to await developments.
I don't think we necessarily have to be a First. The brief only says we are an apprentice to the Keeper. If that automatically meant her First, why not say so? A Keeper could have more than one apprentice if there is more than one mage child in the clan; they would all need proper training. The brief also only says we were raised in the clan, not born there. So you could have come from another clan or even the alienage. Until I find conversations contradict my background, I am playing my elf mage as an alienage elf whose family smuggled her out to the Dalish when her gift became apparent because they would rather lose her to the Dalish than the Circle. So she has been raised from a small child in the Lavellan clan but she has never forgotten her own family or what they suffered in the alienage. That way I have a Dalish elf who legitimately cares about the city elves. If anything this could account for why she isn't the First because she is not seen as orthodox enough in her thinking and also why the Keeper chose her to be the spy, because she has some knowledge of interaction with humans and she could also spare her. I do think that if there were only one mage apprentice in the clan, the Keeper would not be sending them so far on such a risky mission.
I don't think we necessarily have to be a First. The brief only says we are an apprentice to the Keeper. If that automatically meant her First, why not say so? A Keeper could have more than one apprentice if there is more than one mage child in the clan; they would all need proper training. The brief also only says we were raised in the clan, not born there. So you could have come from another clan or even the alienage. Until I find conversations contradict my background, I am playing my elf mage as an alienage elf whose family smuggled her out to the Dalish when her gift became apparent because they would rather lose her to the Dalish than the Circle. So she has been raised from a small child in the Lavellan clan but she has never forgotten her own family or what they suffered in the alienage. That way I have a Dalish elf who legitimately cares about the city elves. If anything this could account for why she isn't the First because she is not seen as orthodox enough in her thinking and also why the Keeper chose her to be the spy, because she has some knowledge of interaction with humans and she could also spare her. I do think that if there were only one mage apprentice in the clan, the Keeper would not be sending them so far on such a risky mission.
That's a good point. Zathrian's clan proved that there can be more than one candidate. However, it's still just that: candidates. So far, we haven't seen any Keeper that had more than one apprentice.
As for why they don't say so in the first place, we have to remember that the backgrounds are there for people who don't know anything about Dragon Age too. The Dwarven backgrounds, for example, have to explain what the hell the Carta and lyrium are, and there's no mention of being casteless, even if the description ("A cast-off "surfacer," unwelcome among the dwarves") reminds old DA fans of what living on the surface entails for the traditional Dwarven society.
I'm not saying is not impossible for the elven mage not to be the First, but Occam's razor says it's best to choose the hypothesis that makes less assumptions. For the same reason, I'd advise against such detailed backstories. Even if the backgrounds in DA:I will be more similar to ME backstories, not even Shepard's backstory was completely free of canon. Including parents, friends and childhood.
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