2121 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

.... as much as I like the Dalish, I think we should just stop bringing them up period.  Especially if all that happens is arguments that don't seem to end...  

You'd want to stop bringing up the Dalish in the elven support thread?

[Lulupab]

You'd want to stop bringing up the Dalish in the elven support thread?

Not to mention the background is pure Dalish. You are the keeper's most trusted and the first in case of being a mage.

[Gervaise]

Yes, but with Shepard you had 3 basic origin stories and 3 life experience stories that you could mix and match to give you the sort of character you wanted.     Now you could argue we are being given 4 different origins by race and 3 different motivations for being there (since both elf and dwarf are spies), but there is no variation as such.   You can't be a dwarf mercenary or a human spy.   Once again the human is a noble (that's three in a row).    

 

Obviously the backgrounds are kept simple for people new to the game but I'm sure we can head cannon our own interpretation of the basic back story and what follows will largely fit it.    In DAO you could play your Dalish as hostile and aggressive towards humans, particularly the Chantry, or you could be more tolerant in your outlook; the conversation options allowed you to be either.    When Zevran asks you about your mother, you are given options in response.   I'm hoping we will get something similar this time round.     Even the Vallaslin can be so pale you can hardly see it and as I understand it, receiving the face tattoo is far more a rite of passage into adulthood than an expression of total commitment to either the Dalish gods or the extreme prejudice exhibited by some Dalish.

 

Just because we didn't see the other clan members who were mages in Zathrian's clan didn't meant they weren't there or that they weren't still considered apprentices.   In fact we have very little detail on how mages are trained within the Dalish or when they are considered able to be left to manage themselves.     In the Circles the mages are apprentices until they take the harrowing, which is usually in their teens, but that doesn't mean that outside of the Circle things are the same.    May be you are considered an apprentice until you get the Vallaslin but I doubt it, since the Inquisitor was still considered an apprentice.    The very title First presumably originally came about because there could be more than one apprentice in training at any one time but only one was first in line to be Keeper.   Lanaya had to compete for the position and overcame the prejudice in some clan members against her non Dalish origin, which suggests she was very able, but had anything happened to her, apparently there were others capable of stepping into her shoes.   When Zathrian died and she became Keeper, I would assume one of these would have become her First.

[Pillemarisk]

Obviously the backgrounds are kept simple for people new to the game but I'm sure we can head cannon our own interpretation of the basic back story and what follows will largely fit it.    In DAO you could play your Dalish as hostile and aggressive towards humans, particularly the Chantry, or you could be more tolerant in your outlook; the conversation options allowed you to be either.    When Zevran asks you about your mother, you are given options in response.   I'm hoping we will get something similar this time round.     Even the Vallaslin can be so pale you can hardly see it and as I understand it, receiving the face tattoo is far more a rite of passage into adulthood than an expression of total commitment to either the Dalish gods or the extreme prejudice exhibited by some Dalish.

Yeah, I hope so too. Keep the past vague. For example, as clichéd as it might be, I'd rather have my inquisitor be an orphan, than suffer through any more awkard family interactions.

 

Or have our parents murdered by some evil criminal shemlen, basically making us Batman.

[Mistic]

Yes, but with Shepard you had 3 basic origin stories and 3 life experience stories that you could mix and match to give you the sort of character you wanted.     Now you could argue we are being given 4 different origins by race and 3 different motivations for being there (since both elf and dwarf are spies), but there is no variation as such.   You can't be a dwarf mercenary or a human spy.   Once again the human is a noble (that's three in a row).   

 

I agree that the variation is minimal except in the Human background case, but the point still stands. It's just that the selection of backgrounds in DA:I is tied to race and class instead of being just there for some reference and minor quests. The level of detail is not very different. My point is that even in that case, those backgrounds have some canon information with them that we don't know yet and can conflict with some people's headcanon.

 

To make things easier, let's forget the Psychological Profile. The Pre-service History in ME alone had more information than just that text, as discovered in dialogues and quests. Earthborn Shepard didn't meet their parents, had a crappy childhood, and willingly enlisted with 18; Sole Survivor had all their known friends and family killed in Mindoir, even if they tried to resist; and Spacer was the child of a very pro-Alliance family and their mom is not only alive and well, but you can talk to her.

 

Obviously the backgrounds are kept simple for people new to the game but I'm sure we can head cannon our own interpretation of the basic back story and what follows will largely fit it.    In DAO you could play your Dalish as hostile and aggressive towards humans, particularly the Chantry, or you could be more tolerant in your outlook; the conversation options allowed you to be either.    When Zevran asks you about your mother, you are given options in response.   I'm hoping we will get something similar this time round.     Even the Vallaslin can be so pale you can hardly see it and as I understand it, receiving the face tattoo is far more a rite of passage into adulthood than an expression of total commitment to either the Dalish gods or the extreme prejudice exhibited by some Dalish.

 

But that's character, personality; what you mentioned before was creating a detailed backstory for an Elven Inquisitor, including being born in an alienage, being smuggled to the Dalish by worried parents and never forgetting their alienage family.

 

Yet in DA:O, the Dalish Warden might think whatever they wanted about their clan and family, but the fact was that their father was Keeper of the Sabrae Clan, that their mother was a hunter from another clan, that the father was killed by humans helped by City Elves, that the mother abandoned them and died, and that the person who brought them up was Ashalle, a family friend. Nobody could know that before playing the game.

 

I still hope that the backgrounds will be vague enough to allow for flexibility, but the same as Shepard, I won't assume complicated backstories until I play the game.

[Gervaise]

I see what you're saying.   However, in DAO we had that initial period when we could walk around our home patch and get a feeling for our history.   As you say, the Dalish origin gave us a back story and I was happy to run with it.    It was similar with Shepard except that you knew it in advance before entering the game.   

 

With DAI they have specifically said there will be no origin prologue, so either we'll get a codex at the beginning saying X,Y,Z happened to your parents/family/clan or the information we have already been given is all we have to go on.   Which is why I have been trying to develop a character beforehand.

 

Given how far the venue of the peace conference is from where both Dalish and human nobles originate, it is unlikely we will be running into them.    Possibly there will be encounters with people who knew us previously, like members of Zathrian's clan will mention your family if you are a Dalish and Velanna says she actually remembers you from one of the clan gatherings.    However, unless you suffer from amnesia (a possibility), it would seem that it is okay to head cannon a back story and then tailor your responses accordingly.     Personally I am pretty adaptable in this respect.    If it turns out my back story doesn't fit the conversation options, then I'll simply adjust accordingly.    I've already had to rethink since the race backgrounds were announced since I had wanted to be a city elf but that's not possible.    I had also wanted my human to be something of a renegade mage with a dodgy family who have encouraged them to be that way but it turns out they are very pro-Chantry, so once again I have adjusted my character to fit; he's still got a shady past and got up to some very questionable stuff in the Circle, but his family don't know it.

 

To be honest I'm just trying to fill time until the game comes out.   If none of my back stories really fit with what I'm given I'm not going to be heartbroken.   I'll just go with the flow.

[Mistic]

I see what you're saying.   However, in DAO we had that initial period when we could walk around our home patch and get a feeling for our history.   As you say, the Dalish origin gave us a back story and I was happy to run with it.    It was similar with Shepard except that you knew it in advance before entering the game.  

 

DA:O did perfectly in that regard, I think. Before the main adventure, you had the origin to play around and discover things about your backstory and your environment. Shepard was a matter of discovery (my Spacer Shepard being able to call his mother was totally unexpected for me. And the captain of a dreadnought!).

 

To be honest I'm just trying to fill time until the game comes out.   If none of my back stories really fit with what I'm given I'm not going to be heartbroken.   I'll just go with the flow.

 

Fair enough. It's just that there are some people (in this thread too) that have taken the news about the backgrounds and the limits they impose very badly. Then discussions happen when the problem wasn't in the game itself, but in their assumptions.

 

Truth be told, even I have a preferred background for some Inquisitors. If we're talking about elves, there was one in the Solas thread that made me smile:

 

Lavellan: You're sending me where?

Keeper: It's an important mission for all elfkind.

Lavellan:  .....

Keeper: You always wanted to see more of the outside world.  Well, here's your chance.

Lavellan: Halfway across Thedas?  I was thinking more about the town around the mountain.  I could spy on them.

Keeper: There's nothing there but pig farmers.

Lavellan: Suspicious pig farmers.

Keeper: I suppose I could always find someone else.  You know, the Elders have been discussing marriage plans for you again.

Lavellan: What.

Keeper: Yes, they're losing patience with you.  They're planning on finding a match for you at the next Arlathvhen.

Lavellan: What.

Keeper: I told them you might not be available because of the importance of this mission, but they'll be delighted to hear your change of heart.

Lavellan: WHAT change of heart? I've always wanted to see the Frostbacks and spy on a group of shemlen who would like nothing better than to lock me in a tower, if not kill me on the spot.  I'm going right NOW. 

Keeper: I thought you might feel that way.

 

Not a background per se, but it could work

[Master Warder Z_]

It's power was nullified by the spirit trap. He needed Michel's help to get out. If Imshael could have left at any time then his whole shtick about choices and consequences was meaningless because Michel's choice changed nothing.

Its power was nullified?

Right.

Hence the whole mass hypnosis.

[Gervaise]

Power nullified as in not being able to rip people apart but you can't stop the music!    Have you noticed what an important part music and song seem to play in the supernatural events of this world?   There is the song of lyrium, the song of red lyrium, the song of the old gods, the song with which Andraste attracted the Maker and the music that Imshael uses to bewitch the elven camp.    Need to be musical to control things in Thedas.    May be that is where the elves went wrong, they had no sense of rhythm.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Its power was nullified?

Right.

Hence the whole mass hypnosis.

 

Yeah and it was dispelled as soon as Michel got close to the spirit trap. He couldn't use it to free himself. It makes no sense to think he could have slaughtered the elves at any time but for some reason only bothered to do so after talking with Michel. Why would he be waiting for that to do it?

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah and it was dispelled as soon as Michel got close to the spirit trap. He couldn't use it to free himself. It makes no sense to think he could have slaughtered the elves at any time but for some reason only bothered to do so after talking with Michel. Why would he be waiting for that to do it?

 

Dispelled? Or did the Demon simply stop casting, given that the effect ended before Michel returned to the camp, i would say i'd lean more towards the Demon simply ceasing its little "fade trick" rather then the worth of a barrier that obviously was never designed to contain what Dalish brought forth into the world, but to the question of why it remained?

 

It was waiting them for to acknowledge the consequence of their action, the price of their choice?

 

It said as much, it was summoned for that purpose and given it was a price that the Dalish were unwilling to pay it chose to remain for what reason other then to see if the situation would remain, honestly if it could compel people to do it's bidding it makes no sense that if it was truly trapped within that barrier it simply couldn't have ordered a Dalish to break the ward stone.

 

It was there because it was amused.

[BronzTrooper]

You'd want to stop bringing up the Dalish in the elven support thread?

I don't want to not bring up the Dalish, but considering what happens when they are brought up, it's probably the best choice.  

[Icy Magebane]

I don't want to not bring up the Dalish, but considering what happens when they are brought up, it's probably the best choice.  

By that logic we should close down the thread or perhaps even the forum... you can't control which people will show up in thread and what they'll post.  So long as it's on topic and doesn't violate the forum rules, there is no requirement that discussion of elves (or anything in any thread) has to be positive.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dispelled? Or did the Demon simply stop casting, given that the effect ended before Michel returned to the camp, i would say i'd lean more towards the Demon simply ceasing its little "fade trick" rather then the worth of a barrier that obviously was never designed to contain what Dalish brought forth into the world, but to the question of why it remained?

 

It was waiting them for to acknowledge the consequence of their action, the price of their choice?

 

It said as much, it was summoned for that purpose and given it was a price that the Dalish were unwilling to pay it chose to remain for what reason other then to see if the situation would remain, honestly if it could compel people to do it's bidding it makes no sense that if it was truly trapped within that barrier it simply couldn't have ordered a Dalish to break the ward stone.

 

It was there because it was amused.

 

Did you read that section of the book? It quite clearly describes the runes on the spirit trap dispelling the effect of his spell.

 

If Imshael was waiting for the Dalish to do something then why would he stop waiting after talking to Michel?

[BronzTrooper]

By that logic we should close down the thread or perhaps even the forum... you can't control which people will show up in thread and what they'll post.  So long as it's on topic and doesn't violate the forum rules, there is no requirement that discussion of elves (or anything in any thread) has to be positive.

 

Fair enough.

[General TSAR]

After finally playing through as a City Elf, I'm far more sympathetic to them. They are no different than human or dwarf subjects of the ruling authorities and should be treated as such. It's time for reconciliation but not through revolution because that will bring the hammer down.

 

But the useless Dalish can get eaten by Harvesters as far as I'm concerned. 

[raging_monkey]

I don't want to not bring up the Dalish, but considering what happens when they are brought up, it's probably the best choice.  

in order keep positivity on one my fave topicsi also secon the motion to censor dalish topics till we can not devolve into extremes

[Master Warder Z_]

Did you read that section of the book? It quite clearly describes the runes on the spirit trap dispelling the effect of his spell.

 

It quite clearly describes the effect of the spell being quite acute to the point of Michel being about three inches from it.

 

Seriously, he was on top of the thing, if that was its AOE, erm...how could the demon not have used his power to have some one break it before then?

[Icy Magebane]

in order keep positivity on one my fave topicsi also secon the motion to censor dalish topics till we can not devolve into extremes

Even more calls for censorship!    Do we really need two separate City Elf and Dalish Elf threads?

[Master Warder Z_]

Even more calls for censorship! 

 

I know!

 

Next thing you know, folks will want to call elves people!

 

Imagine the notion!

[Icy Magebane]

I know!

 

Next thing you know, folks will want to call elves people!

 

Imagine the notion!

That's ridiculous.  Unless "person" strictly refers to "human," and isn't used to describe dwarves and qunari as well.  Losing a few wars doesn't mean they are animals.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's ridiculous.  Unless "person" strictly refers to "human," and isn't used to describe dwarves and qunari as well.  Losing a few wars doesn't mean they are animals.

 

Qunari are as much a "people" as a horde locusts or darkspawn would be.

 

Dwarves aren't people obviously but they are a sapient cognitive race with a much better grasp of the situation then the elves.

[A Clever Name]

 

in order keep positivity on one my fave topicsi also secon the motion to censor dalish topics till we can not devolve into extremes

 

I don't want to not bring up the Dalish, but considering what happens when they are brought up, it's probably the best choice.   

 

It's not as though you're obligated to respond when someone disagrees with you.  Furthermore I'm greatly against the idea of censorship.  People aren't always going to agree with you, but that doesn't mean you should avoid topics you like just because you fear the response.

 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It quite clearly describes the effect of the spell being quite acute to the point of Michel being about three inches from it.

 

Seriously, he was on top of the thing, if that was its AOE, erm...how could the demon not have used his power to have some one break it before then?

 

"Michel was almost to the circle of stones when the runes on the nearest stone flashed. The music spun away, torn like cobwebs, and Michel shuddered and fell to his knees."

 

Imshael could not control anyone to free him if he can't bring them near him without it freeing them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't want to not bring up the Dalish, but considering what happens when they are brought up, it's probably the best choice.  

 

The solution is just ignore bating by the trolls. Next time the thread gets overrun with pages talking about nothing by how great it is to murder dalish or something just pretend it's all: