2121 réponses à ce sujet

[animedreamer]

Sounds similar to Qunari Reeducation.

except they aren't being forced to into it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

except they aren't being forced to into it.

But whether it stays voluntary if/when the elves get a nation again is a matter of debate. 

[Master Warder Z_]

except they aren't being forced to into it.

 

._. They will be if they want to be Dalish.

 

To chose or not chose to be your race based on your preference for culture is not a fair choice.

[dragonflight288]

Well, to be honest, only two City Elves mention the Dalish at all. Once when the owner ot he burnt building describes Felassan to Gaspard and the other one was in Halamshiral... talking to Felassan himself, angry that they were going to kill one miserable noble instead of helping the rebellion more. It's Briala the one who almost worships the Dalish, only to discover that they were as flawed as everyone else in the crappy Thedosian world.

 

A better proof of less xenophobia among City Elves would actually be the presence of humans born of elven mothers in the Alienage. When Lemet (a city elf in Halamshiral) suggested a friend could be in trouble when talking about the Dales (not the Dalish, mind you), Thren mentioned that the tavern was full of elves so there was no problem. When Lemet silently pointed out that there were others too, Thren said:

 

"Fine. A few flat-ears, but you know what I mean. You're going to blame Gestan and Thale because their mothers got friendly with some noble and popped-out a half-blood? It’s not like they get to live in the nice part of town just because they look human. Nobody in there is going to carry tales back to the nobles about the elves talking about back when they ruled this city."

 

It seems that for City Elves the most important thing is that their neighbours share their fate. That would explain why they don't have (many) problems with half-bloods or Dalish living among them in the alienages.

 

But try and rise out of that slummy situation, and they turn on you. 

 

EDIT: I generally and almost usually support elves, but this is in the city elf codex on elves who leave alienages. They are considered flat ears who abandon what it means to be elven by their friends in the alienages themselves. True, in that same codex, they talk about those elves usually getting driven from their homes and their businesses burned down by racist humans who can't stand elves standing equal to them, but the xenophobia for fellow elves that people condemn the Dalish of for City Elves exist among city elves for fellow city elves as well. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Maybe that's true but its baseless for the moment. If your next post does not have proof of what you just claimed don't bother replying because you remind me of people in court who swear to god constantly and use the word never over and over again without having any proof. I deal with those people on a daily basis and cannot do it here again.
 
There is no proof showing elves were immortal and there is no proof there weren't either. I respect this and have the courtesy to call it ambiguous instead of claiming things far from proven and "true".

Hey biowaremod2? You there? What happened to not bringing up irl religion, politics, or other such issues? This kinda makes it seem like theres a bias going on, ya know biowaremod2?

[dragonflight288]

Anyway, I'd like to ask a hypothetical. 

 

Some of the more vocal elf haters say that no matter what happens, the elves will lose because humanity outnumbers them greatly, and if the elves make any ground, say taking some land, they would lose it quickly because Humans wouldn't let them have it.

 

So my hypothetical is this; if the civil war in Orlais weakens them so much, and the elves reclaim a homeland, whether it's the Dales or some other place in Orlais itself, and Orlais is too weak from it Civil War to do anything about it, do you honestly and truly think that Ferelden, Nevarra, the Free Marches, Antiva and such would muster their forces, unite, to help Orlesian humans strengthen themselves against the elves?

 

Do you truly think Anora or Alistair would send Ferelden troops to fight for Orlais against elves, especially if Gaspard wins the civil war?

 

All such a war would do is strengthen Orlais, with nothing to gain for those other countries, unless they themselves were invading Orlais.

[Cainhurst Crow]

You know what would be the bees knees of irony? What if the old elves trained humans to use blood magic. Like, what if the old elves needed to use their fellow elves lives in order to prolonged their own, so they got what they considered a subspecies to do it as to keep their art a secret from their fellow elves and keep themselves seen as living deities. So they train the humans in rudimentary magic and sick them out to kidnap elves, bringing them before the old elven masters to be sacrificed to prolong their lives, and the humans eventually rising up against their magic elven overlords take over the whole system, transforming the elf society into the tevinter imperium, and keeping the old practice alive, thus creating elven slavery and the magic ruling caste system.

[TheJediSaint]

Spoiler

Anyway, I'd like to ask a hypothetical. 

 

Some of the more vocal elf haters say that no matter what happens, the elves will lose because humanity outnumbers them greatly, and if the elves make any ground, say taking some land, they would lose it quickly because Humans wouldn't let them have it.

 

So my hypothetical is this; if the civil war in Orlais weakens them so much, and the elves reclaim a homeland, whether it's the Dales or some other place in Orlais itself, and Orlais is too weak from it Civil War to do anything about it, do you honestly and truly think that Ferelden, Nevarra, the Free Marches, Antiva and such would muster their forces, unite, to help Orlesian humans strengthen themselves against the elves?

 

Do you truly think Anora or Alistair would send Ferelden troops to fight for Orlais against elves, especially if Gaspard wins the civil war?

 

All such a war would do is strengthen Orlais, with nothing to gain for those other countries, unless they themselves were invading Orlais.

 

Most nations probably wouldn't give a ****.  Ferelden's main issue would be shenanigans happening on their border, but would likely sit out any war because they're recovering from the Blight (and probably the Breach).  The most I see Fereldan doing is closing their borders to prevent violence from spilling into their lands

 

However, after the civil war and the crisis with the Breach were resolved, Orlais wouldn't stay weakened for forever.  They covered from worse, after all.  As soon as they could, they'd raise an army to reconquer the Dales.  Unless the Dalish could secure support from another human nation, which I don't really see happening, their independence wont last long.

[dragonflight288]

Most nations probably wouldn't give a ****.  Ferelden's main issue would be shenanigans happening on their border, but would likely sit out any war because they're recovering from the Blight (and probably the Breach).  The most I see Fereldan doing is closing their borders to prevent violence from spilling into their lands

 

However, after the civil war and the crisis with the Breach were resolved, Orlais wouldn't stay weakened for forever.  They covered from worse, after all.  As soon as they could, they'd raise an army to reconquer the Dales.  Unless the Dalish could secure support from another human nation, which I don't really see happening, their independence wont last long.

 

If Orlais can recover strength, why then can't the elves?

 

If I recall, there was a war between the Dalish and Orlais, and the elves were kicking Orlais' collective butt until the Chantry stepped in with an Exalted March. 

 

This shows, that if the elves reclaim land, Orlais is too weak to do anything about it initially, all that will likely happen is that the elves in their land will grow stronger and stronger, just as Orlais will, and if a war breaks out between them later on down the line, it won't be one-sided. 

[pengwin21]

The Dalish don't really have strength to "reclaim"- there just aren't enough of them, they lack infastructure etc.

 

Back when the elves lived in the Dales their population was much higher.

[myahele]

The nation relies heavily on cheap labor and elves are the cheapest labor available short of slavery.

Even if they do get land, elves have a tendency to be isolationist and combined with the fact that breeding with each other in IMPORTANT to keep the race alive I think war with a nation will be inevitable.

[Br3admax]

If Orlais can recover strength, why then can't the elves?

 

If I recall, there was a war between the Dalish and Orlais, and the elves were kicking Orlais' collective butt until the Chantry stepped in with an Exalted March. 

 

This shows, that if the elves reclaim land, Orlais is too weak to do anything about it initially, all that will likely happen is that the elves in their land will grow stronger and stronger, just as Orlais will, and if a war breaks out between them later on down the line, it won't be one-sided. 

Not enough elves. Not enough resources. The same people they lost to before are much stronger now. The elves have no way to reclaim their former glory. Not at the numbers they are now. 

[TheJediSaint]

If Orlais can recover strength, why then can't the elves?

 

If I recall, there was a war between the Dalish and Orlais, and the elves were kicking Orlais' collective butt until the Chantry stepped in with an Exalted March. 

 

This shows, that if the elves reclaim land, Orlais is too weak to do anything about it initially, all that will likely happen is that the elves in their land will grow stronger and stronger, just as Orlais will, and if a war breaks out between them later on down the line, it won't be one-sided. 

 

The Elves don't have the strength to recover.  Remember, the Dales fell centuries ago, and the Dalish have been living as scattered nomads ever since.  They don't have the population or the infrastructure to hold back even a weakened Orlais.

[dragonflight288]

The Dalish don't really have strength to "reclaim"- there just aren't enough of them, they lack infastructure etc.

 

Back when the elves lived in the Dales their population was much higher.

 

I didn't say the Dalish, I said the elves in general. There ARE enough of them, and Orlais is in the throes of a civil war, the chantry is in disarray, the mages and the templars are in a war. If the elves unite, there is very little Orlais can do about it under the current circumstances. 

 

I mentioned the Dalish when the Dalish were kicking Orlais' butt. 

[Br3admax]

There aren't enough elves, period. 

[TheJediSaint]

I didn't say the Dalish, I said the elves in general. There ARE enough of them, and Orlais is in the throes of a civil war, the chantry is in disarray, the mages and the templars are in a war. If the elves unite, there is very little Orlais can do about it under the current circumstances. 

 

I mentioned the Dalish when the Dalish were kicking Orlais' butt. 

 

I think one thing you're overlooking is that the Breach is going to happen right on the border of the Dales.  That will probably result in just as much disarray for that area as for the rest of Thedas.  I don't see Elves organizing a rebellion while there are Demons falling out of the skies.

[dragonflight288]

There aren't enough elves, period. 

 

Humans aren't united. 

 

Mages kill templars, templars kill mages. The Grand Game. Gaspard and Celene's civil war. 

 

The humans of Orlais may weaken themselves to such an extent that they won't be able to do anything about elves, and you can bet that Ferelden, Nevarra and so on will not lift a finger to help Orlais. Orlais doesn't have many friends outside of the Chantry. 

[dragonflight288]

I think one thing you're overlooking is that the Breach is going to happen right on the border of the Dales.  That will probably result in just as much disarray for that area as for the rest of Thedas.  I don't see Elves organizing a rebellion while there are Demons falling out of the skies.

 

I also said that the elves didn't necessarily have to take the Dales. 

[Br3admax]

Humans aren't united. 

But the elves are? Even the Dalish aren't united. If you're going to wish all that away, you'll have to do the same for humanity. 

[dragonflight288]

But the elves are? Even the Dalish aren't united. If you're going to wish all that away, you'll have to do the same for humanity. 

 

Also true, but I have higher hopes for the elves uniting for a common cause, a homeland, than I see for humans uniting for ANY cause at all. They are too divided by nationality, religion, class and prestige. Heck, the Chantry's templars and seekers are split on their loyalty to the Divine and the desire to hunt mages, despite believing the same thing. 

 

Not saying the elves don't have the same problems, but not to the extent of humans, and the elves ARE more united than humans are, and are less, not free of, but less prone to infighting. 

[TheJediSaint]

I also said that the elves didn't necessarily have to take the Dales. 

The Dales is the only place in Thedas we know Elves outnumber humans.  Trying to take over a different piece of land would mean fighting somewhere humans both outnumber them and have homefield advantage.

[dragonflight288]

Double post, but I felt I should add this.

 

I'm not saying it'll be easy for the elves. I'm not saying things'll be sunshine and rainbows, but I do think it's possible. 

[dragonflight288]

I think taking other land would further weight the odds against them.  The Dales is the only place in Thedas we know Elves outnumber humans.  Trying to take over a different piece of land would mean fighting somewhere humans both outnumber them and have homefield advantage.

 

Unless those humans are killed by red templars, blood mages, or Gaspard or Celene's civil war....or press ganged to fight each other. 

[TheJediSaint]

Unless those humans are killed by red templars, blood mages, or Gaspard or Celene's civil war....or press ganged to fight each other. 

 

But Elves would be just as vulnerable to those, if not more.  There's no Elven army to protect them, after all.

[dragonflight288]

Anywho, I'd love to continue this debate, but I'm cleaning the carpet at a Perkin's Restaurant tonight so I need to get off and get ready.