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[Master Warder Z_]

The last war nearly bankrupt all the countries in southern thedus. 

 

But they won.

[leaguer of one]

And you are using that single codex and taking it over WOT, and all the other source material?

 

Seriously Wiki Qunari wars and then proceed to actually read the WOT passage on it.

 

Basically it goes something like this: They invade, they met little resistance, their invasion of Tevinter is going nicely and then suddenly the armies of Thedas rally, they are shoved back, they invade the free marches and occupy Kirkwall, Orlais kicks them out of it.

 

They are removed from Antiva making Rivain there only nation in Thedas with any foothold on it, And then they are pushed back to their last stronghold on that, and then yes the killing the native population occurs and some cite that as the reason why they left.

 

But really, seriously?

 

You are going to say to me with a straight face, their final stronghold in Thedas PERIOD, is under siege, every other invasion they have attempted is dead in the water or defeated, the invasion of the imperium is going horribly because of mass slave revolts which give the Magisters time to rally their armies and it is them killing the native population that prompts retreat?

 

Right, No its them losing the war that prompts retreat.

 

We will see who's history is faulty.

The page it's stated in the world of thedus.

[leaguer of one]

But they won.

Won? The Qunari pull back. They did not win.

[Hibernating]

I hope the Qunari are smart enough to bring some templar like warriors, cause if Imperium truly begins to fall, the magisters are gonna go balls to the wall with blood magic and all manner of arcane stuff. I think Tevinter will be far more dangerous when the Qunari try to corner them.

 

Tevinter is already "balls to the wall" with blood magic. Here's what would happen if the Qunari invaded Tenvinter seriously, they would offer freedom to every slave in the empire, a massive rebellion would happen, Qunari would then attack and cake walk the country.
 

I think at the very least, that if they were to perform such a ritual, they'd do their damnedest to take out as many of the Qunari as they can. When they go down, I think there's gonna be an explosion of magic the likes of which Thedas hasn't seen in millennia. 

Tevinter magisters have never been portrayed as greater good or self sacrificing type characters, chances are, they would simply run as they value their lives more than anything else, put a wall of slaves between them and their retreat and run.

[Master Warder Z_]

The page it's stated in the world of thedus.

 

It's a codex from DA 2 in the viscount's office in act 1.

 

It isn't from WOT.

[Master Warder Z_]

Won?

 

Yup, its the only logical conclusion to take.

 

Their invasion was done.

 

They were stuck in their final stronghold, their navy was being picked apart by raiders and even Par Vollen was having occasional invasion.

[leaguer of one]

It's a codex from DA 2 in the viscount's office in act 1.

 

It isn't from WOT.

...Did you read it?

"50 years. That's how long it took the Imperium to drive out the Qunarioccupation. But the rest of Northern Thedas was not so lucky.

Both Divines, white and black, declared Exalted Marches and for the only time since the Schism of the Chantry, they worked together. A century-long siege resulted, with the giant Qunari entrenched in Antivaand Rivain, and all of Thedas throwing armies against them.

The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew."

 

http://dragonage.wik...omerryn_Accords

[leaguer of one]

Yup, its the only logical conclusion to take.

 

Their invasion was done.

 

They were stuck in their final stronghold, their navy was being picked apart by raiders and even Par Vollen was having occasional invasion.

What? Did you read the treaty. Southern thedus gave them land and they stop invading for a while. That's a Qunari gain. Southern Thedus gave them some of their land. to invaders who want land who want to try invading later. How is that a win?

[Chari]

Somebas just hates qunari so much they prefer to think they're weak and fragile

Just need to remind this bas, that the qunari are the steel and the bas are the wood. Pretty, intricate, "wild", but nothing compared to the metal

[TheJediSaint]

Somebas just hates qunari so much they prefer to think they're weak and fragile

Just need to remind this bas, that the qunari are the steel and the bas are the wood. Pretty, intricate, "wild", but nothing compared to the metal

I'm no fan of the Qunari, but I recognize that they are a formidable force.  Too formidable to be easily conquered, even by a united Thedas.  The best policy with them is containment.  And maybe a treaty to enlist their help in future Blights.

[Master Warder Z_]

What? Did you read the treaty. Southern thedus gave them land and they stop invading for a while.

 

I have, several times but to that point, i must disagree.

 

The actual accord: the peace treaty if you wish to call it that forbids Qunari on Thedosian soil.

 

Kontaar is a single Qunari settlement in the tip of Rivain, If you wish to call a fort a land appeasement, i suppose you could but don't act like they were gifted the entirity of Rivain, they were given a building to occupy.

[leaguer of one]

Somebas just hates qunari so much they prefer to think they're weak and fragile

Just need to remind this bas, that the qunari are the steel and the bas are the wood. Pretty, intricate, "wild", but nothing compared to the metal

Every ox-qunari has 10% melee deference. They are far from weak.

[Master Warder Z_]

...Did you read it?

"50 years. That's how long it took the Imperium to drive out the Qunarioccupation. But the rest of Northern Thedas was not so lucky.

Both Divines, white and black, declared Exalted Marches and for the only time since the Schism of the Chantry, they worked together. A century-long siege resulted, with the giant Qunari entrenched in Antivaand Rivain, and all of Thedas throwing armies against them.

The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew."

 

http://dragonage.wik...omerryn_Accords

 

It's called read this and then read the WOT entry on the war, as i have said REPEATEDLY now.

 

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Qunari_Wars

[leaguer of one]

I have, several times but to that point, i must disagree.

 

The actual accord: the peace treaty if you wish to call it that forbids Qunari on Thedosian soil.

 

Kontaar is a single Qunari settlement in the tip of Rivain, If you wish to call a fort a land appeasement, i suppose you could but don't act like they were gifted the entirity of Rivain, they were given a building to occupy.

Like they can stop the quari from taking land. Are you really saying that  southern thedus giving land to the qunari and hoping for the best is a victory?

[Hibernating]

And you are using that single codex and taking it over WOT, and all the other source material?

 

*snip*

 

We will see who's history is faulty.

 

K, lets have a look at the history.

Qunari wars "ended" in 3 Exalted marches with the combined armies of Thedas, the Imperial and Andrastan Chantry unified in the conflict. Qunari had at this stage "only" Seheron and Rivain left.

First Exalted March in 7:25 was successful, they retake some ground in Seheron and Rivain given the heavily use of Magic which the Qun hadn't seen before.

Second Exalted March in 7:52 was an absolute failure, the combined armies lose MOUNTAINS of ground as the Qunari retake much of Antiva which they hadn't had since 6:85 steel.

7:55, The third exalted march and when the "big victory" happened. The Qunari have a failed offensive to take Starkhaven and take Kirkwall which the chantry manages to retake later. The Qunari lose the tiny island of Estwatch. Then, still holding onto Rivin, Antiva and Sehreon they retreat. Wooo! Great victory for the chantry! the Qunari leave because they could tolerate the losses suffered by their converts!

Heres the direct quote

"The Third Exalted March was the most brutal of all. By this time, the war had drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. The Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar: their last remaining stronghold left on the continent^[9], and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force. For the sake of Kont-aar, the giants finally agreed to withdraw.^[10] The Exalted March ended in 7:84 Storm. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn results in the signing of the Llomerryn Accord and peace being declared.^[11] The Qunari agreed to end all hostilities with all nations under the accord and returned to Par Vollen which was annexed to them."

The Qunari were winning.

Edit, before theres any confusion, the People of Kont-aar are converts, not the "invaders".

[Master Warder Z_]

The Qunari were winning.

 

Not even close to being accurate.

 

If they were "winning" at any point in that struggle, two quarters of the war wouldn't have been them retreating.

 

You can cite them wanting to save some rivaini converts all you wish, but i will point out quite truthfully: From my perspective that makes NO tactical sense what so ever, if they had the forces to renew the invasion, why didn't they?

 

If they hadn't been so bloodied by this point, which all the sources agree, they were.

 

Why didn't they continue the fight? Thedas was holding its own, but it couldn't do much more then by this point, Rivain was a warzone, Antiva was causing them so much trouble it wasn't even funny, and Orlais had just booted them out of the Freemarches, you cite them losing territory as a minor loss, but it was a loss, it was territory retaken, seriously.

 

All you ever hear about is the Qunari losing ground in the third exalted march, but it was their loss of rivaini that prompted retreat? No, It makes no sense, Perhaps the Qunari are that militarily deluded but i tend to give them more respect then that.

[Master Warder Z_]

 Are you really saying that  southern thedus giving land to the qunari and hoping for the best is a victory?

 

No i am saying given them a building and an Island that is Tevinter's problem isn't a loss.

 

I am saying shoving them back into the sea is a victory.

[leaguer of one]

It's called read this and then read the WOT entry on the war, as i have said REPEATEDLY now.

 

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Qunari_Wars

You have not read it ether.

 

"The war continued for the rest of the century, and into the next one. After nearly a quarter of a century, in 7:23 Storm, the Qunari were pushed back to Seheron and Rivain, but still held on to those regions tightly.[2]

The Battle of the Nocen Sea was the largest naval engagement in history and resulted in a stalemate and the destruction of many ships on both sides. With both sides exhausted, an impasse began."

 

In the year 7:24 Storm, the Andrastian Chantry and Imperial Chantry were desperate enough to work together for the first time since the schism to take down the threat to both organizations. They declared the New Exalted Marches against the Qunari – to retake Rivain for the Chantry, and Seheron and Qarinus for Tevinter.[3]

The first New Exalted March in 7:25 Storm proved successful. The Circle of Magi proved to be a great boon for the Chantry-led forces as they were able to effectively counter the Qunari's technology with their magic. Year by year, the Chantry was able to push further and further into the Qunari lines, although local converts to the Qun proved difficult to return to Andraste's teachings.[1]

Many Qunari artifacts were plundered at this time, including the Tome of Koslun which was taken by Orlais as a spoil of war.[3]

However, the second New Exalted March that took place 27 years later in 7:52 Storm was a disaster. The Qunari countered by recapturing much of Antiva.[3] During the same year, Treviso is burned by the liberating armies of the White and Black Divines.[4]

In 7:55 Storm, a third and final Exalted March was called.[5] The nations of Thedas found themselves in dire need of every ship they could muster against the massive power of the Qunari dreadnaughts. The Llomerryn pirates were faced with a hard decision: band together under one flag and fight with those they had previously preyed upon or face conversion and annihilation by the Qunari. Thus the Felicisima Armada was formed at 7:55 Storm.[6]

In 7:56 Storm, the Qunari landed near Ostwick and launched assaults against Starkhaven and Kirkwall. Starkhaven prevailed, but Kirkwall fell due to the magic of the Saarebas.[5] The city remained under Qunari power until Orlesian Chevalier Ser Michel Lafaille liberated Kirkwall in 7:60 Storm. He found that most of the population was converted to the Qun. Kirkwall was incorporated into the Orlesian Empire, and Lafaille became the ruler of the city, named Viscount by the Orlesian emperor.[7] The Felicisima Armada meanwhile had been using their stealth and trickery to plague Qunari supply lines. They have even launched several seaborne invasions against the Qunari coast. At 7:78 Storm the raiders managed to defeat the Qunari in a massive naval battle and then take Estwatch from them, an island with strategic importance.[8]

The Third Exalted March was the most brutal of all. By this time, the war had drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. The Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar: their last remaining stronghold left on the continent[9], and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force. For the sake of Kont-aar, the giants finally agreed to withdraw.[10] The Exalted March ended in 7:84 Storm. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn results in the signing of the Llomerryn Accord and peace being declared.[11] The Qunari agreed to end all hostilities with all nations under the accord and returned to Par Vollen which was annexed to them.

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Qunari_Wars

 

Impasse=/=winning

[Master Warder Z_]

Impasse=/=winning

 

It appears you changed your tune, just a few posts ago you were claiming the Qunari were a ten step program away from ruling over Thedas

 

In all seriousness, the Qunari weren't winning their war if they had they would have won it.

 

Thedas and the Imperium were winning but it was too broken at the moment to bother finishing the job.

 

Its a sad day when only the blood mages of the imperium see the wisdom in continuing that fight.

[leaguer of one]

No i am saying given them a building and an Island that is Tevinter's problem isn't a loss.

 

I am saying shoving them back into the sea is a victory.

1. It was also part of rivain.

 

2. They nearly bankrupt themselves and were stuck in an impasse they were not winning. If the qunari did not stop they would of lost everything again. And they are even weaker now with the mage who are responsible for those gains in those war are out of their control.

[leaguer of one]

It appears you changed your tune, just a few posts ago you were claiming the Qunari were a ten step program away from ruling over Thedas

 

In all seriousness, the Qunari weren't winning their war if they had they would have won it.

 

Thedas and the Imperium were winning but it was too broken at the moment to bother finishing the job.

 

Its a sad day when only the blood mages of the imperium see the wisdom in continuing that fight.

I never said that. I only said that Souther thedues did not win nor kick them out. They were at an impasse.  How can they be to broke to finish a job. If an army is at that state it's a loss.They did even kick them out of southern thedues but gave them small parts of it. How is that winning?

[Hibernating]

Not even close to being accurate.

 

If they were "winning" at any point in that struggle, two quarters of the war wouldn't have been them retreating.

 

You can cite them wanting to save some rivaini converts all you wish, but i will point out quite truthfully: From my perspective that makes NO tactical sense what so ever, if they had the forces to renew the invasion, why didn't they?

 

If they hadn't been so bloodied by this point, which all the sources agree, they were.

 

Why didn't they continue the fight? Thedas was holding its own, but it couldn't do much more then by this point, Rivain was a warzone, Antiva was causing them so much trouble it wasn't even funny, and Orlais had just booted them out of the Freemarches, you cite them losing territory as a minor loss, but it was a loss, it was territory retaken, seriously.

 

All you ever hear about is the Qunari losing ground in the third exalted march, but it was their loss of rivaini that prompted retreat? No, It makes no sense, Perhaps the Qunari are that militarily deluded but i tend to give them more respect then that.

"If they hadn't been so bloodied by this point, which all the sources agree, they were."
From the sources "and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force"
At this stage your just pulling at straws man, so the Qunari at the end of the third united exalted march are holding MORE LAND than when the exalted marches began, having retaken Antiva, and being described as "unchipped" are "bloodied at this point". Meanwhile most of the nations of Thedas are "on the brink of collapse".

And to your "All you ever hear about is the Qunari losing ground in the third exalted march" they didnt lose any except one tiny island.

The Qunari are pretty alien they deemed the loss of their converts too much (which we can tell from "all the sources"), at this stage they had only been known for 130 years, perhaps they wanted to build Par Vollen up and establish a plan which results in the death of less converts? Explains the Ben-Hassrath.

[Master Warder Z_]

1. It was also part of rivain.

 

Not correct: It was a part of the Imperium until 6:30 steel.

 

 

2. They nearly bankrupt themselves and were stuck in an impasse they were not winning. If the qunari did not stop they would of lost everything again. And they are even weaker now with the mage who are responsible for those gains in those war are out of their control.

 

If the Quanri didn't stop they would have lost the war even worse, If they had the forces to attempt another invasion they would have done it, it makes no sense otherwise.

[The Baconer]

From the sources "and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force"

 

Context: The Qunari occupying force in the Kont-aar. By this point they've been more than chipped elsewhere.

 

At this stage your just pulling at straws man, so the Qunari at the end of the third united exalted march are holding MORE LAND than when the exalted marches began,

 

WoT: "The third Exalted March on the Qunari ends in a stalemate. The Qunari have only one stronghold left on the continent: the city of Kont-aar".

 

Sure doesn't sound like it.

 

And to your "All you ever hear about is the Qunari losing ground in the third exalted march" they didnt lose any except one tiny island.

 

The tiny island that happened to be their naval base of operations from which they launched their dreadnaughts. And yes, they lost everything aside from one settlement in Rivain.

[Master Warder Z_]

"If they hadn't been so bloodied by this point, which all the sources agree, they were."
From the sources "and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force"

 

Mmm

 

-For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers

 

 

 

At this stage your just pulling at straws man, so the Qunari at the end of the third united exalted march are holding MORE LAND than when the exalted marches began, having retaken Antiva, and being described as "unchipped" are "bloodied at this point". Meanwhile most of the nations of Thedas are "on the brink of collapse".

 

They retook Antiva twenty odd years before the third exalted march, it isn't stated if it was even still in their hands by this point, given the Antivans Merchant princes and Pirate Warlords were capable of putting together a fleet though, i doubt it, you can't berth a fleet in an enemy controlled port.

 

And on the brink of collapse? The third exalted march was the most successful since the first, They accomplished the liberation of the Freemarches, the defeat of a Qunari fleet, seaborn invasions against Par Vollen, and more.

 

Sure they might have been tearing their hair out trying to pay the bills for the war, but they were winning by this point.

 

 

And to your "All you ever hear about is the Qunari losing ground in the third exalted march" they didnt lose any except one tiny island.

The Qunari are pretty alien they deemed the loss of their converts too much (which we can tell from "all the sources"), at this stage they had only been known for 130 years, perhaps they wanted to build Par Vollen up and establish a plan which results in the death of less converts? Explains the Ben-Hassrath.

 

Possibly, but that still doesn't change the fact that their invasion at this point was a dismal failure.