119 réponses à ce sujet

[Stephenc13]

I read the post, and he says teammates dont change armor at all, i'm pretty sure they upgrade throughout the game

[TileToad]

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.

How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

[LucidStrike]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Regardless, I stand by my point. People need to stop judging ME2 for not being something that it was never intended to be in the first place.

Agreed. That is on the very, very long list of things people need to stop doing.

[RevengeofNewton]

KingDavid007 wrote...

RPG is just too nerdy and too intricate.

No.

[Cascadus]

KingDavid007 wrote...

RPG is just too nerdy and too intricate.

No amount of facepalms can describe this.

[Darth_Shizz]

jidnis wrote...

The inventory system in the original Mass Effect was a complete disaster....

I just remember spending long stretches of time individuallly breaking things down into omni-gel.... *yawn*

I think the greater flexibility in appearance customization adds more RPG elements than what was in the original. I am a little concerned about the lack of dialogue choices the reviewer mentioned, but i don't remember the original mass effect allowing you 4 different ways of saying "yes" and "no" (beyond the paragon/renegade specials)

Have to agree on the inventory system. This change seems to want to address that. It also seems a fairly intuitive idea, considering they're attempting to really define what an action-RPG is with this title.

Mass Effect never really offered that option either unfortunately. Whilst you're definitely given options, due to the limitations of the game employing voice acting (despite being great for the cinematic feel of the game, it does have some drawbacks), those options can at times feel limited.

Considering the overall theme of his/her post was "Yeah, pretty disappointed with this", them actually presenting anything at all within it in a positive light probably wasn't going to happen. That perceived lack of dialogue options could simply be an observation made through overly-sceptical eyes. Not as if I'm saying this is the definite case, just that it's something to think about.

[KainrycKarr]

TileToad wrote...

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.
How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

As someone who plays RPG's most of my time, i'm gonna be honest and say that one of the least things i care about when judging an rpg is the inventory...

[Darth_Shizz]

TileToad wrote...

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.
How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

It has an inventory system of sorts, just not a loot-hoarding system.

My justification for this? Roleplaying Shepard, I always found the concept of hauling around 200 pieces of vendor trash as if he'd just slain some Old God or Another, then celebrated with a visit to the haunted mines of Kuura-Shaa (or Somewhere), a bit odd ;p

Simply put; it just didn't feel as if it worked.

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:35 .

[TileToad]

KainrycKarr wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.
How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

As someone who plays RPG's most of my time, i'm gonna be honest and say that one of the least things i care about when judging an rpg is the inventory...

But, at least, it is still there to be judged.

[George Shepard]

IMO an RPG is a game that puts you in the role of a certain character. This does not NEED to have inventory stuff etc etc. Personally, I was never all that interested in the multiple armour etc etc part of ME1. I mean, in movies do you see the main character changing his armour? Maybe upgrading it but not changing it. This gripe is simply RPG veterans trying to stereotype a genre. They forget that before the inventory customization etc etc there was simply text. There must always be revolution before there can be change. IMO Bioware is being brave and putting one foot in front of the other in an genre that, for all intents and purposes, is stuck in quicksand.

[tmacairjordan87]

I've read these complaints about "dumbing" the game down for too long now, between here and the old forums and the neogaf thread. What about ME1 was so complex or deep that are making some people rage with this game?
Was it the atrocious inventory system? The clunky combat? Having pretty much everything rely on an arbitrary skill tree instead of actual skill?
The RPG genre is in the middle of an evolution, where rpg elements are being blended with real combat. These people come off as cavemen to me, where an RPG isn't an RPG if it doesn't have dice rolling for everything in the background, or if it doesn't have a stupid skill you need to raise to max to open doors/chests.
Go play Dragon Age if you want all that crap, since it's modeled after a 10+ year old game. ME1 was the first step into modernizing the RPG genre, and ME2 seems like it completes that transition. If you don't want to roll with change, well you can always go back and play Baldur's Gate again.

Modifié par tmacairjordan87, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:37 .

[KainrycKarr]

TileToad wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

TileToad wrote...

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.
How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

As someone who plays RPG's most of my time, i'm gonna be honest and say that one of the least things i care about when judging an rpg is the inventory...

But, at least, it is still there to be judged.

And there IS an inventory system in ME2; you access it via lockers in your ship and throughout the various hubs.

Have many things been simplified? Yes, absolutey. And no, someone who loves pure RPG's WON'T LIKE IT.

This is because I think many people bought ME1 on the pretense that it was an RPG. Personally, I thought it was another shooter and picked it up on a whim. I never, ever expected the kind of depth and choice that was allowed.

Boy was I surprised.

From everything I've seen of the gameplay so far(yes I've spoiled myself a bit), things are, while simplified, much more polished. It feels smoother to me.

But if you go into it expecting a hard RPG, you will be disappointed, especially if you're something likes all the number crunching of your traditional RPG.

[jidnis]

TileToad wrote...

Ever since I've heard there is no inventory at all anymore, I fear disaster.
How can anything call itself a RPG (light) if it doesn't even have the most basic RPG element??

The basic element of RPGs is customization - not inventory.

ME1 took the MMO approach and had tons of garbage loot and once in a great while you may come across something that was an upgrade.  Personally I think this appeals to people who have a "lottery" mentality - finding diamonds in the rough.

There are still different bonuses to different armor types.  This is the core mechanic that was worth preserving

[Neccrid]

LucidStrike wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

It is not a shooter. It is not an RPG. It's something new.

Not really new. We've seen shooter RPG's before. ME is just a really good one with unique characteristics.

RPS (role playing shooter).  Borderlands was hyped up to be a big 'RPS'  but it was more on the shooter side.  if anything, bioware deserves the credit of Mass Effect being one of the few great role playing shooters.

[RogueGeth]

Gah. I hate when people say stuff dumbed done and stuff is no longer something. Just accept the game at it is. Sure it might have made inventory, ammo, and stuff like that more streamlined, I really don't care-actually forget that- I LIKE IT! It makes a crapload more sense and less annoying to play (coming from a guy who has played all sorts FPSs and RPGs including ME1)  I just like this a whole lot better than the first my opinion.

[TileToad]

George Shepard wrote...

IMO an RPG is a game that puts you in the role of a certain character. This does not NEED to have inventory stuff etc etc. Personally, I was never all that interested in the multiple armour etc etc part of ME1. I mean, in movies do you see the main character changing his armour? Maybe upgrading it but not changing it. This gripe is simply RPG veterans trying to stereotype a genre. They forget that before the inventory customization etc etc there was simply text. There must always be revolution before there can be change. IMO Bioware is being brave and putting one foot in front of the other in an genre that, for all intents and purposes, is stuck in quicksand.

The inventory system was introduced in RPG's for a reason. To give the player options and customization for their characters to play with. It enriches the game so that one can play a role the way one chooses. Taking that away is like taking out the heart of an RPG game.
I also didn't see anything wrong with the inventory system of the 1st ME. I don't see why they try to eliminate something from a game that wasn't broken to begin with. It mostly just seems like a dumbing down of the game to me.

[TileToad]

KainrycKarr wrote...
And there IS an inventory system in ME2; you access it via lockers in your ship and throughout the various hubs.

I did not know this.. I hope it will be enough.

This is because I think many people bought ME1 on the pretense that it was an RPG.

This holds true for me and I was not disappointed.

[KainrycKarr]

TileToad wrote...

George Shepard wrote...

IMO an RPG is a game that puts you in the role of a certain character. This does not NEED to have inventory stuff etc etc. Personally, I was never all that interested in the multiple armour etc etc part of ME1. I mean, in movies do you see the main character changing his armour? Maybe upgrading it but not changing it. This gripe is simply RPG veterans trying to stereotype a genre. They forget that before the inventory customization etc etc there was simply text. There must always be revolution before there can be change. IMO Bioware is being brave and putting one foot in front of the other in an genre that, for all intents and purposes, is stuck in quicksand.

The inventory system was introduced in RPG's for a reason. To give the player options and customization for their characters to play with. It enriches the game so that one can play a role the way one chooses. Taking that away is like taking out the heart of an RPG game.
I also didn't see anything wrong with the inventory system of the 1st ME. I don't see why they try to eliminate something from a game that wasn't broken to begin with. It mostly just seems like a dumbing down of the game to me.

But you do have options and customization for you to play with in ME2. and the inventory was NOT removed, it was cleaned up, simplified, dumbed down, however you want to put it, but it is THERE.

I'd say about 15-20% of my average playthrough time in ME1 was spent cleaning out my inventory. I love customization, but I don't want to spend that much time cleaning out my inventory JUST for it to clogged up with a whole bunch of other crap to clean out 30 minutes later.

And, again, I will reiterate; MASS EFFECT IS NOT AN RPG. IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A STRONG RPG. IT IS A SHOOTER WITH RPG ELEMENTS. This has NOT changed.

Play Mass Effect 2 this upcoming week, then play Crysis, Halo, Call of Duty, FEAR, or whatever other shooter you can name, then tell me how many of those shooter you can choose what you look like, your character's history, his armor choice, his weapon choice, how many companions you have, how many dialog options you have, and how many of those games allow you to progress in a non-linear fashion.

Out of the four pure shooters I named, which are all considered big-time names in that genre, NONE OF THEM have ANYTHING even REMOTELY close to the kind of customization and player choice you have in ME2. Not even close.

Yes, the gap was greater in ME1, but it was also quite clunky at times.

[Vicmage]

Meh not everyone is going to like a game, no matter how good it is. I'm not a big RPG person myself but the thing I love about WRPG's are the deep and branching stories with strong character development (stats, loot, or whatever else is in the standard WRPG just don't do a whole lot for me). Hearing ME2 is a refined shooter over its predecessor plus keeps a very engaging story is enough to make me very excited for it. But I can totally see that it might not be all that for a hardcore WRPG fan.

[jidnis]

TileToad wrote...

George Shepard wrote...

IMO an RPG is a game that puts you in the role of a certain character. This does not NEED to have inventory stuff etc etc. Personally, I was never all that interested in the multiple armour etc etc part of ME1. I mean, in movies do you see the main character changing his armour? Maybe upgrading it but not changing it. This gripe is simply RPG veterans trying to stereotype a genre. They forget that before the inventory customization etc etc there was simply text. There must always be revolution before there can be change. IMO Bioware is being brave and putting one foot in front of the other in an genre that, for all intents and purposes, is stuck in quicksand.

The inventory system was introduced in RPG's for a reason. To give the player options and customization for their characters to play with. It enriches the game so that one can play a role the way one chooses. Taking that away is like taking out the heart of an RPG game.
I also didn't see anything wrong with the inventory system of the 1st ME. I don't see why they try to eliminate something from a game that wasn't broken to begin with. It mostly just seems like a dumbing down of the game to me.

Dumbing down, really?  Because I felt the 100 clicks of "reduce to omni-gel" after cleaing a planetary base was probably about as neuron unintensive as you could get.

You still have to make a choice between which armor type bonuses are most advantagious to you - and now you get to even customize thier appearance (+ 1 RPG)

[Darth_Shizz]

TileToad wrote...

The inventory system was introduced in RPG's for a reason. To give the player options and customization for their characters to play with. It enriches the game so that one can play a role the way one chooses. Taking that away is like taking out the heart of an RPG game.

As has been stated above, the only thing that has been removed is the clutter. I'd agree that seeing an RPG without some form of inventory system would be bizarre, however, ME1s implementation of the inventory system was questionable at best. What ME2 does, is takes that inventory system, and keeps it outside the missions (which could be considered a way to improve immersion/roleplay). Of course, this also means that you won't be picking up every piece of junk an enemy drops. Instead, you get armour customisation and weapon replication. 

Simply a cleaner, more efficient system. Simpler? Yes. Though that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

I also didn't see anything wrong with the inventory system of the 1st ME. I don't see why they try to eliminate something from a game that wasn't broken to begin with. It mostly just seems like a dumbing down of the game to me.

As others said, it was a nightmare to manage. When the most engaging part of an inventory system, is scrolling through 150 weapons/armour/upgrades and either selling or gelling them, then surely something must be wrong? In order for ME2s equipment management to be considered "dumbed down", there would actually have to have been some complexity to the inventory system in ME1; there was nothing at all complex about that system.

[Lil Pink Pwny]

Mass Effect has always bridged the gap between tradtional rpg and shooter. ME2 looks to to refine that very particular niche. The traditional elements in ME aside from classes/abilities and conversations did nothing for me. Im sorry but omnigelling EVERYTHING once you reach a high level is not how a story driven action rpg should work. Neither should getting to stick a point in a talent every few hours to increase warp damage by 2%.



People might see ME2 as dumbing down the series, but imo those people are way too invested in the idea of hardcore rpgs and are completely missing the point of Bioware's direction with the Mass Effect series. It is about a compelling story/universe driven by dialog trees and action. Bioware has made plenty of traditional adventure rpgs over the years. ME was a departure from that crowded genre. This is something different. Deal with it. It's not about appeasing console players, it's not about appealing to casual fans. It's about streamlining the tedious aspects of old school rpgs so that the story and characters comes first, and everything else enhances those parts of the game instead of hindering it or breaking up the flow.

[The Demonologist]

Mass Effect 2 is an extreme away from the original. Clunky inventory is completely removed. However, is it missed? Partially.



Team member's appearance is only basically customizable in a manner with which I will not reveal. Sufficed to say, it will not be what you're hoping for, though I like it as it is.



Methinks the third will strike the perfect balance. More RPG is good, but the Inventory system was stripped away to a point of near severity. A middle ground leaning to what we have now would be perfection.



ARMOR on your companions definitley needs to be addressed however. Miranda, sexy as she is in her outfits, should NOT be able to take a Colossus shot spot on as my Sheppard did. That said, the original game's system of armoring them up should not be re-instituted. Instead, customization of the appearance should exist. Should Miranda be required to cover up those sexy cheeks? (Both sets! Heheh.) Not necessarily, but the option should exist. Perhaps it was just me, but I personally had an intense desire to dress Jacob up exactly as my Sheppard did, to inspire some kind of professional or organizational unity. With Mass Effect, customization is a big thing, and they regrettably fell a tad short in this area.



Note, my Miranda example applies to most if not all of them. Same could be said of Thane, Archangel, etcetera.

[Knight725]

TileToad wrote...

(snip)

The inventory system was introduced in RPG's for a reason. To give the player options and customization for their characters to play with. It enriches the game so that one can play a role the way one chooses. Taking that away is like taking out the heart of an RPG game.
I also didn't see anything wrong with the inventory system of the 1st ME. I don't see why they try to eliminate something from a game that wasn't broken to begin with. It mostly just seems like a dumbing down of the game to me.

The ME1 inventory was a half implemented disaster. Pages of useless guns and upgrades who's only purpose was vendor trash. Almost any alternative system is an improvement.

[VernahVonKickass]

Err, which RPG god said there MUST be an inventory system in an RPG? ME2 is trying to show and go down a different path of well just doing their own skittles. Why must it be a point and click candy corn pick game, why can't an RPG have better combat systems? I myself think that if any "fantasy RPG" is going to use an inventory system, the slots should be like 100000 slots less, how is it that a character can carry 100 full plate sets, 40 gold sword of the silverite pwnz0r +6, and 30000 instant hp pots? Unless you got robo camels following you and holding ur luggage, its FAILL!!!



As for the "stat" system, in reality they just condensed the leveling after killing 3 guys system and putting 1 point into a skill into just having bigger blocks have skills that do more for each point. Besides, half the skills were "Increase boner by .05 mm," and do that 200x till you finally reach 1mm.