481 réponses à ce sujet

[Killdren88]

Care to share why it appeals to you? Is it the fact that you don't need to feel what your doing is pointless? Is it lacking purpose and the Qun gives it to you no matter what it is? Is it just the desire to belong and follow a group? Does the idea of choice and individuality seem unimportant to you? What about the Qun makes it appealing to you?

[TheEternalStudent]

It's order. A lack of ambiguity, it's clear metrics for success and failure.
It's civilization built with a straight edge and compass.
I don't think the Qun is right, bu there is definitely value to it.

[Willowhugger]

Care to share why it appeals to you? Is it the fact that you don't need to feel what your doing is pointless? Is it lacking purpose and the Qun gives it to you no matter what it is? Is it just the desire to belong and follow a group? Does the idea of choice and individuality seem unimportant to you? What about the Qun makes it appealing to you?

It's a Medieval society.

Individuality and choice matter not a bit anyway. For every farmer who gets to choose to farm, fish, or be a merchant there is one who starves at the whim of the tax man or winter with no support from his lord. He'll also never be a knight or a nobleman or a King because it only matters what womb he came out of in determining that.

God help you if you're an elf or Casteless Dwarf.

 

The Qun is equal with everyone having the same prestige and place as well as being taken care of by the state. Everyone is honored for following their role. The top positions are also filled by service rather than bloodline. Who is Arishok is determined by who is the most badass Qunari, not whether his dad was Arishok.

 

It's a society of merit.

No racism either.

 

Thedas could learn a lot from it...and vice versa.

[Geth Supremacy]

Care to share why it appeals to you? They are a strong people.  They get the job done...period.  And the people who have a problem with what they do cannot do it better than they can...in many ways their society is actually better.  They do not roll over, they do not give up, they do not turn their back on their duty...they have a task and they do it...period and nobody is going to stand in the way...you can try but you will get steam rolled and your death is your own doing.  Get down or lay down. Is it the fact that you don't need to feel what your doing is pointless? No at all.  Is it lacking purpose and the Qun gives it to you no matter what it is? No. Is it just the desire to belong and follow a group? No. Does the idea of choice and individuality seem unimportant to you? Nope..it is very important to me...because you follow the Qun doesn't mean you don't have your own personality.  You are put in the role that you are most effective at.  That is what most people want anyways, they dont want to do something they are terrible  at...they want to be successful and great at what they do.  What about the Qun makes it appealing to you?  It is undeniably 100% effective in every way and in every thing it sets out to do.  You don't have any weak links and no problems at home.  You do what you do and anyone in your way gets crushed.  The hypocrites that have a problem with it fear it.  They are also in denial if they think their society full of thieves, murder, torture, slavery, and whatever else is better.  That is why we have to MAKE them see.....they refuse to on their own...."You are blind. I will make you see!"  Top of the food chain for real.  Even though Bioware is ripping me off and won't let my warrior dual wield 2 handed weapons I will still be on the front line...and i've been taking names.

[Super Drone]

People also seem to downplay the bad elements of the Qun in their heads.  No sex. No family. You go where you are told and do what you are told. Personal happiness is not a concern. You should be happy in the Qun's role for you. If you are not, then there is no recourse.

 

The Ox-men can't even keep their own from abandoning the Qun. Humans, with their pair bonding and libido and tendency to commit suicide when terribly unhappy, I gotta think the Ariqun is tearing their hair out keeping the ones who they've forcibly converted in line.  Or they quietly ignore their violations, all the while telling themselves the Qun is perfect. 

[Geth Supremacy]

It's a Medieval society.

Individuality and choice matter not a bit anyway. For every farmer who gets to choose to farm, fish, or be a merchant there is one who starves at the whim of the tax man or winter with no support from his lord. He'll also never be a knight or a nobleman or a King because it only matters what womb he came out of in determining that.

God help you if you're an elf or Casteless Dwarf.

 

The Qun is equal with everyone having the same prestige and place as well as being taken care of by the state. Everyone is honored for following their role. The top positions are also filled by service rather than bloodline. Who is Arishok is determined by who is the most badass Qunari, not whether his dad was Arishok.

 

It's a society of merit.

No racism either.

 

Thedas could learn a lot from it...and vice versa.

 

This human gets it! 

[Willowhugger]

People also seem to downplay the bad elements of the Qun in their heads.  No sex. No family. You go where you are told and do what you are told. Personal happiness is not a concern. You should be happy in the Qun's role for you. If you are not, then there is no recourse

 

Sex seems to be something which happens. It's just divorced from families.

Sten is more irritated with Morrigan's come-ons than dismissive of them, for example.

Plus Tallis flirts up and down with everyone.

[TheEternalStudent]

People also seem to downplay the bad elements of the Qun in their heads.  No sex. No family. You go where you are told and do what you are told. Personal happiness is not a concern. You should be happy in the Qun's role for you. If you are not, then there is no recourse.

 

The Ox-men can't even keep their own from abandoning the Qun. Humans, with their pair bonding and libido and tendency to commit suicide when terribly unhappy, I gotta think the Ariqun is tearing their hair out keeping the ones who they've forcibly converted in line.  Or they quietly ignore their violations, all the while telling themselves the Qun is perfect. 

First of all it's no free sex, reproduction happens, but sex without that purpose is a pointless waste of energy in the Qun.
And honestly, I don't see that as a bad thing. There's no family in the sense of your mother and father and siblings etc. you are all Qunari, you are all connected, what's so special about hanging out with someone who happens to share your genes, your put wityh other people who share your role. And maybe there is no happiness, there is contentment and satisfaction in a job well done. Personally something done correctly is happiness,
I'll ignore the racial slur, and simply say that expecting everyyone from a race to hold to a single belief system is absurd. The Tal-Vashoth, abandon the Qun, I fail to see why it's more notable if they stand 6 feet tall and have horns, or a member of a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty. And they don't forcibly convert anybody, you can't forcibly convert anybody, those they can't convert they effectively lobotomize.

[veeia]

I would say at this point the Qun is very...theoretical. We get the Arishok & Tallis & Sten telling us about it, but we don't actually get many chances to see it in action nor do we really hear about it from sources that aren't very biased in favor of it.  So right now we are hearing about an idealized/philosophical/very thin slice version of it. I would like to see how the Qun works in Par Vollen, get to wander around and hear from the everyday people, not walking propaganda machines or people who have built their identity on the Qun's supremacy.

 

I'm not saying it's awful (although from a mage's pov, it....super is tbh), just that everything looks shinier in the abstract. 

[Willowhugger]

On a small note: The Qunari aren't all that good at keeping converts.

If you get Sten's approval High Enough, he flat out says Tal-Vashoth are the biggest enemy the Qunari have.

Not Tevinter.

Not the rest of Thedas.

Their own rebels and religious dissidents.

 

And they have to make large portions of the populace Tranquil.

The Qun is not really any more stable than the rest of Thedas.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

Qun seems to be as everything wrong with regular society fixed, and everything right with regular society, broken. Turn a mug to see the handle, but you lose the picture.

[TheEternalStudent]

On a small note: The Qunari aren't all that good at keeping converts.

If you get Sten's approval High Enough, he flat out says Tal-Vashoth are the biggest enemy the Qunari have.

Not Tevinter.

Not the rest of Thedas.

Their own rebels and religious dissidents.

 

And they have to make large portions of the populace Tranquil.

The Qun is not really any more stable than the rest of Thedas.

He doesn't claim that they are a large number, and as far as the Qun is concerned they will eventually wipe out Tevinter and everywhere else (Tevinter is throwing everything it's got at the Qunari who are just casually stalemating them) but the Tal-Vashoth threaten the Qun itself, the ordered society.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Because some people in real life are communists or socialists. The idea of collectivism, clearly defined roles in society and being part of a greater whole is appealing for some.

 

For an individualist, the Qun is a nightmare.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

It's a society of merit.

 

See, that's not true. You could be the best manager ever, but if you happen to be born male, you're out of luck. Likewise, you could be a really talented warrior, but if you are female, get ready to spend your life keeping books.

 

The Turian Hiearchy is a meritocracy. The Qun is the exact opposite.

[Lumix19]

See, that's not true. You could be the best manager ever, but if you happen to be born male, you're out of luck. Likewise, you could be a really talented warrior, but if you are female, get ready to spend your life keeping books.

The Turian Hiearchy is a meritocracy. The Qun is the exact opposite.

Not totally true. They believe (rightly or wrongly) that men and women are better suited for different tasks but that doesn't mean they bar you from jobs. There are male teachers for example. It is largely about what's best for society.

Edit: Tallis is an example of how the qunari think. The Qun is far more convincing when Tallis gives the pitch rather then the Arishok for example (for some people at least, not for me personally).

[Willowhugger]

See, that's not true. You could be the best manager ever, but if you happen to be born male, you're out of luck. Likewise, you could be a really talented warrior, but if you are female, get ready to spend your life keeping books.

 

The Turian Hiearchy is a meritocracy. The Qun is the exact opposite.

Sexism and Mage abuse both exist in diametric opposition to a meritocracy.

However, does that outweigh that you're still scum in Thedas unless you're part of the Chosen Few?

 

Women can't be warriors unless they're spies.

And men can't be merchants.

But peasants can never be anything but the dung on the boots of nobles in Thedas.

[Willowhugger]

Not totally true. They believe (rightly or wrongly) that men and women are better suited for different tasks but that doesn't mean they bar you from jobs. There are male teachers for example. It is largely about what's best for society.

I'm not sure this is the case as gender is such an intristic part of the Qun that Sten pretends he's uncertain Leliana and the Female Warden are women.

[The Ascendant]

If we really want to learn about the Qun, we need to talk to a priest. Sten and the Arishok are soldiers its not their job to educate us. Iron Bull however is a Ben-Hassrath, hopefully he can explain it to us in greater detail.

[The Ascendant]

I'm not sure this is the case as gender is such an intristic part of the Qun that Sten pretends he's uncertain Leliana and the Female Warden are women.

Sten views the Warden as an anomaly, since a competent and honorable person outside the Qun is impossible for him to believe. It doesn't matter what race or class or gender you are, to him you are the Warden, nothing more. Unless you gain his respect on he calls you both Kadan and Ashkari.

[JJDXB]

The Qun is just another caste society, but the castes are not necessarily determined by birth.  Your life is determined almost solely by external locus.  While this is also true for Andrastian society (and our society, for that matter), in the Qun it's written in stone.

 

Basically, if you ever want things to change in Thedas to the point society is like ours, the Qun is out of the picture.  The Qun completely stifles social mobility and free will.

[RobRam10]

The Qun is an abomination in the eyes of Tzeentch and Tevinter! So it must be destroy and purge from existence!

[TheEternalStudent]

The Qun is an abomination in the eyes of Tzeentch and Tevinter! So it must be destroy and purge from existence!

Tevinter's been trying for a while, I'd suggest you just pray for a comet to strike Par Vollen.

[Geth Supremacy]

See, that's not true. You could be the best manager ever, but if you happen to be born male, you're out of luck. Likewise, you could be a really talented warrior, but if you are female, get ready to spend your life keeping books.

 

The Turian Hiearchy is a meritocracy. The Qun is the exact opposite.

 

The ONLY role in which a male has to fill is the Arishok.

The ONLY role in which a female has to fill is the Arigena.

 

Aside from that sex means nothing.  Obviously a sex is genetically more fit to do certain things, but if skill is shown then sex can...and will be looked over.

 

"efficient" "effective" "efficacious"

[Geth Supremacy]

If we really want to learn about the Qun, we need to talk to a priest. Sten and the Arishok are soldiers its not their job to educate us. Iron Bull however is a Ben-Hassrath, hopefully he can explain it to us in greater detail.

"I am no more equipped to explain than you are to understand."