481 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

actually it is true.  Anyone can be successful.  It's about if you're going to get off your ass and do it.  Or cry about people not pulling you along.  Every race and gender has people who have been successful.  Are the challenges the same? No.  Are there people who will help others and not you? Yes in all races and genders. 

No... It really isn't. The moneyholders can and WILL put an end to your endavours if they see you as a threat, no matter how enginious your product is. America is not "the land of the free" no matter how much they like to boast and proclaim it so.

[Geth Supremacy]

I think you have a very erroneous view about America, my friend. I say that as a man who loves his nation.

Who cannot attain success?

[Keroko]

Starving people will do almost anything to survive. Including "convert" to an alien religion they almost certainly don't fully understand.
 
But, not everyone in Chantry controlled lands is starving. Not even peasants in Orlais can be said to be starving on a mass scale. Poor? Hell yeah. often living in uncomfortable conditions without medical care? Sure. But that's all a far cry from starving. You make out living in human lands to be ground scale of the Apocalypse. The truth is that it's a Medeval society, and white-washed fantasy version of it at that. Not everyone living in those conditions is going to automatically assume the Qun is awesome. Of those that do, they see the food and shelter. I imagine ten, or even five, years living under the Qun's demands would give them a different perspective.
 
To say nothing of those who were never given a choice in the matter.

The qunari wars and the resulting difficulty for the Chantry to convert their conquered and converted people back begs to differ.

[SmilesJA]

I think what's appealing to the Qun, is that in their religion they view all races as equal. They give you a role and a purpose in life, from an elven perspective I can see why they probably prefer the Qun.

[Willowhugger]

Who cannot attain success?

 

I don't believe nearly enough jobs, opportunities, or reward by merit versus corruption is available in America today.

 

This is very off-topic however.

[Killdren88]

I don't believe nearly enough jobs, opportunities, or reward by merit versus corruption is available in America today.

 

This is very off-topic however.

 

Yes..please...if you wish to argue about that take it to PMs.

[Keroko]

Who cannot attain success?

Those who lack the connections with the rich people, mostly.

I didn't say I'd be a gatherer. Just a hunter. That's the easy work.

Especially when you're in a locale that offers game, day in day out. This wouldn't be prehistoric Africa or anything.

Secondly though, I'd still be part of a community.

Heh. You're used to rifle hunting, I take it? Hunting with a bow isn't easy. Hitting a target still means you're going to be tracking it for a long time before it dies. And then you have to drag it back, skin it, gut it and clean it (nasty work, by the way) before you can do anything with it.

[Geth Supremacy]

I don't believe nearly enough jobs, opportunities, or reward by merit versus corruption is available in America today.

 

This is very off-topic however.

Yes, I won't speak on it further this isn't the job thread lol.

 

While I won't disagree with your comment.  I know more than 1 self made millionaire.  Someone close to me is in the process of building an almost million dollar home.  He came from extremely humble beginnings...he saw an opening and jumped in head first.   Self made businessman.  No help from anyone, but busting his butt.

[Willowhugger]

It's not impossible, just far far more difficult than it should to be a success.

Re: The Arishok

How similar does one think Qunari values are to what we think of as our own? I actually think Sten and the Arishok both display very strong values which resonate with ours regarding justice and mercy. I also think that Tallis also displays these same values. I'm curious if Iron Bull will show the difference between the Qunari path and our own or show that it's not QUITE as different as we think.

What about u?

[Master Warder Z_]

That much is true. I agree. They don't even know better in that case. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

 

I guess I'm looking at it more though from an abstract point of view of all of those people failing to meet their true potential. And only being allowed to define themselves more will they find that.

 

I mean i like a lot of these ideologies on paper, but humanity just seems to corrupt everything they touch no matter the beauty of its sentiment.

[Keroko]

True enough. Hitting a target isn't exactly the issue with bows though, with enough practice. I'm no expert, but it's harder to close the distance. That's the real difference with guns.
 
That said, I wasn't planning on getting into this kind of detail with my statement. My main point is that Dalish elves don't have many obligations in their society. Very little structure, except some general duty to clan and elders. They're very primitive in some ways (few manufacturing duties, little political considerations, very undefined religious ideas). You have time to think for yourself a bit more in a place like this. Hence, why I said I'd love to chill in the woods. lol

Oh yes, very true. Really, if they'd just stop being such dicks to their city born kin I'd hazard their numbers would swell until the dales are full of elves.

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh yes, very true. Really, if they'd just stop being such dicks to their city born kin I'd hazard their numbers would swell until the dales are full of elves.

 

Easy to rout them into submission i suppose if they all group together.

[Geth Supremacy]

Im my mind...if nothing else you have to respect the Qunari.  Their focus, drive, and effectiveness.  Even if you take the Qun out of the equation those traits alone...form a powerful people.  I remember when I first started playing DAO talking to sten was like talking to a wall....I was so confused.  Once you "get" Qunari though its very simple and something I am drawn to.  Nothing is perfect, but the Qun is pretty hardcore and I love it.  I really hope you can submit in DA: I.  Even if you have to trade off the Inquisition.  (which I would do)

[Master Warder Z_]

At first I liked some of those ideologies too, but I started thinking that centralizing power was their problem to begin with.

 

Oh no its, the solution granting those with the ability to rule, the authority to rule but the problem comes in with those without the ability to rule taking power, or undermining the system for personal ends.

 

The real benefit of Dictatorship is in the fact there is no system of checks and balances, it removes the bureaucracy and ineffectiveness of governance by direct rule.

 

The real issue that arrives however is that there have been relatively few dictators that were worthy of rule.

[Super Drone]

The question I ask then is.

 

1. Do you see it as possible that anyone would follow the Qun knowingly and willingly, five, ten years later?
 

2. If not, is that a flaw of bad writing or are we meant to assume the Qun is followed by irrational people?

 

1. Follow it?  Sure. People follow dumb religions that make them unhappy just to belong all the time. Follow them and be able to internalize the teaching and truly live the life? Very, very, very few people.

 

2. I always assumed Qunari just aren't like humans and other races. I assume they operated under different hormone balances, and had different instinctual responses to things like pair bonding, libido and child-parent bonds. With characters like Iron Bull around, I am starting to think the Qun was a faith that survived as long as it did due to isolation. People can be convinced to live a certain way if they have no alternative to reference it to. But now, there exposure to other cultures will cause them to slowly erode away until they cut their losses and remain on Par Vollen to keep their culture untainted, or shatter themselves attempting to wipe out all the other cultures in Thedas, putting any dissidents at all (which would be thousands and thousands) to the sword.

 

Or, some enterprising Ariqun will take the pragmatic approach and accept that they will need to adapt their culture to accept humans. Not the other way around.

[Revelat0]

I think you have a very erroneous view about America, my friend. I say that as a man who loves his nation.

I think you will find the word "erroneous" is the wrong word, I would use "different" since no one here has posted even the slightest evidence that you can or cannot succeed in America, it is all speculative opinion at this point. And also, I happen to agree with him, but I don't think your view is wrong, just different, maybe we have different pieces of the same puzzle and just don't know how they all fit yet. BUT, I digress since we are getting off topic.

 

People's views of the Qun are no different to be honest, some people like em, some hate em, and most probably don't even understand them, since we haven't been given enough information to see how their society works. Yet, for all of their success, they also have a lot of flaws like any other system... Is there a perfect system in Thedas? No, and that revolves around the basic premise that if you can't have perfect individuals, there is no perfect collective, since it was an individual who first came up with the idea of the Qun.

 

In an ideal Thedas, and the world for that matter, resources are so abundant and outweigh the members of society that to think anyone can have what they like whenever they would like it is as close to perfect as we can conjure at this point. The Qun is an oasis, but abundance is a lake. See Star Trek TNG on exhibit A, post-scarcity is abundance, the question is what system gets a society to post-scarcity the quickest, while sacrificing little of what people want. In Thedas' case, the Qun are effective resource accumulators, but usually through conquest and great sacrifice of lives, freedoms, and happiness (sorry if that was cliche).

[Master Warder Z_]

No, and that revolves around the basic premise that if you can't have perfect individuals

 

Well there was this German fellow about a century and a half ago or so that disagreed with that notion.

 

I'd like to think Humanity can aspire to perfection.