481 réponses à ce sujet

[Gtdef]

In the very end he cracked. He started spewing empty threats. I lost all respect for him after that. Too bad he died and I couldn't make fun of him.

[Magdalena11]

The Qun is a philosophical system, not a deity.

Everyone has a place in Qunari society.

People in Qunari society are evaluated and placed according to their talents, not the circumstances of their birth.

 

All these factors could be considered real bonuses to recruitment, especially to those disaffected by a traditional Andrastean culture.

[AshesEleven]

In the very end he cracked. He started spewing empty threats. I lost all respect for him after that. Too bad he died and I couldn't make fun of him.

Empry threats like...what?

He had every intention to carry out all of his threats. And then hawke either kills him or provides him with what he needs to leave Kirkwall.

[Medhia_Nox]

It's very interesting that when you're spewing elf or mage freedom - God forbid anyone EVER dissent.

But if you're expressing interest in something those people hate - it's open season. 

 

And it always seems to be the same people.

 

The Qunari don't seem to be hypocrites - another reason to like them.

[Gtdef]

I exaggerated a bit, but after beating him he says "one day we shall return".  Perfect time to have some fun with him. But he died too fast.

[Xilizhra]

It's very interesting that when you're spewing elf or mage freedom - God forbid anyone EVER dissent.

But if you're expressing interest in something those people hate - it's open season. 

 

And it always seems to be the same people.

 

The Qunari don't seem to be hypocrites - another reason to like them.

You don't have to be a hypocrite to be a genocidal war machine.

 

And yes, I say genocidal, because they want to obliterate all cultures except their own.

[HTTP 404]

I think the idea appeals to me but I don't actually believe it would work.  It kind of makes me think if Communism and Religion had a child it would be the Qun.  Everyone has a role in society and no one is mistreated, nor are they favored.  Even the leaders have a role that they must fulfill and be servant to.  The religious part really seals the buy in to this kind of society where communism does not.

 

I think it is a pipedream.  I would love to visit Par Vollen to see this society in action.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  That's not genocide... it's ethnic cleansing.

 

But okay.

[raging_monkey]

@Xilizhra:  That's not genocide... it's ethnic cleansing. But okay.

its a misconception both have similar goals different methods

[Keroko]

This sounds like someone who isn't considering that, in America, no one is stopping anyone from being successful. The only hinderance to success in America is you and your willingness to succeed.

 

If that was true we wouldn't be having this 99% VS 1% issue. There is a limit to success on pure willpower alone. Those who actually succeeded and became that 1% did so either because of their connections (most often the case) or because of a combination of willpower and the right idea at the right time (the rare exceptions, but often the inspirational success stories we hear about).

 

And that, of course, isn't taking into account that there are people ready to stop you from being successful. Competition these days is more brutal than ever, with the big companies swallowing up every company with a fresh, new or good idea they can get their hands on.

[Super Drone]

They leash and muzzle mages. They forcibly convert, breaking up families and forcing people into camps for "re-education", they lobotomize those they can't  brainwash into their beliefs.

 

Really? Equality and Order are that important to you that you can sweep all that under the rug? Pretend that they only do it sometimes?

 

A peasant in Thedas may never be a noble, but at least they can fall in love, have a spouse, create a family who loves them. Crappy jobs are bearable when you are doing them for your own loved ones, not the abstract concept of "Society". In the Qun you have your co-workers. Like them? Hate them? Too bad, your preferences and happiness are not a demand of the Qun. You are imagining some unwritten element of their society that's never been in print that compensates for that. It's not there.

 

Work. Be happy in the work given to you. That's it.

[Xilizhra]

They leash and muzzle mages. They forcibly convert, breaking up families and forcing people into camps for "re-education", they lobotomize those they can't  brainwash into their beliefs.

 

Really? Equality and Order are that important to you that you can sweep all that under the rug? Pretend that they only do it sometimes?

 

A peasant in Thedas may never be a noble, but at least they can fall in love, have a spouse, create a family who loves them. Crappy jobs are bearable when you are doing them for your own loved ones, not the abstract concept of "Society". In the Qun you have your co-workers. Like them? Hate them? Too bad, your preferences and happiness are not a demand of the Qun. You are imagining some unwritten element of their society that's never been in print that compensates for that. It's not there.

 

Work. Be happy in the work given to you. That's it.

Have you read The Righteous Mind? It's fascinating, and explains the psychology of such people who want this sort of thing very nicely.

[Keroko]

Everyone being equal is pretty meaningless when that equality means you are little more than robotic cattle. 

 

Define "robotic cattle" though. It's true that the koslith we've seen were rather robotic, but Tallis from the Mark of the Assassin DLC was no less qunari than they were, and she was about as far away from robotic as you can get without going into crazy territory. She also seems to have romantic flirtatious interests in Hawke, so whatever rules against romance (what are these rules again?) that exist don't seem to be too strict.

 

 

They leash and muzzle mages. They forcibly convert, breaking up families and forcing people into camps for "re-education", they lobotomize those they can't  brainwash into their beliefs.

 

Really? Equality and Order are that important to you that you can sweep all that under the rug? Pretend that they only do it sometimes?

 

It's fascinating how the Dragon Age community tends to do this a lot. Those who like dwarfs tend to brush their abuse of the casteles under the rug. Those who like the dalish tend to downplay how much of a bunch of dicks they are to anyone not them. Those who like the Chantry tend to ignore the Chantry's penchant for rewriting history, ethnic cleansing (because yes, the Chantry does this too) and ignoring the abuses they should be striving to prevent.

 

It really shows how biased we can get over the things we like.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Keroko:  Which I why I try to like nothing.

[Xilizhra]

Define "robotic cattle" though. It's true that the koslith we've seen were rather robotic, but Tallis from the Mark of the Assassin DLC was no less qunari than they were, and she was about as far away from robotic as you can get without going into crazy territory. She also seems to have romantic flirtatious interests in Hawke, so whatever rules against romance (what are these rules again?) that exist don't seem to be too strict.

Tallis is a very bad qunari.

[raging_monkey]

Define "robotic cattle" though. It's true that the koslith we've seen were rather robotic, but Tallis from the Mark of the Assassin DLC was no less qunari than they were, and she was about as far away from robotic as you can get without going into crazy territory. She also seems to have romantic flirtatious interests in Hawke, so whatever rules against romance (what are these rules again?) that exist don't seem to be too strict.   It's fascinating how the Dragon Age community tends to do this a lot. Those who like dwarfs tend to brush their abuse of the casteles under the rug. Those who like the dalish tend to downplay how much of a bunch of dicks they are to anyone not them. Those who like the Chantry tend to ignore the Chantry's penchant for rewriting history, ethnic cleansing (because yes, the Chantry does this too) and ignoring the abuses they should be striving to prevent. It really shows how biased we can get over the things we like.

qunari feel love and affection just dont sleep with each to show it. Ita complicated

[Keroko]

@Keroko:  Which I why I try to like nothing.

 

Hate everything equally.

 

 

Tallis is a very bad qunari.

 

She was a better qunari than her trainer, who had left the qun and was ready to betray it. And yet said teacher was still more robotic than her.

[Tarvesh]

If that was true we wouldn't be having this 99% VS 1% issue. There is a limit to success on pure willpower alone. Those who actually succeeded and became that 1% did so either because of their connections (most often the case) or because of a combination of willpower and the right idea at the right time (the rare exceptions, but often the inspirational success stories we hear about).


And that, of course, isn't taking into account that there are people ready to stop you from being successful. Competition these days is more brutal than ever, with the big companies swallowing up every company with a fresh, new or good idea they can get their hands on.

You're confusing a taxing issue (where the 1% actually pays out more in taxes than the 99% when the 99% have been convinced that the 1% should still be paying more with the ironic "their fair share" motto) in a conversation about cultural freedoms and liberties of the Qun.

And there are always people who will try to steal or hinder your success. It's called a competitive marketplace. What people can't do is try to stop you because of where you were born, your skin color, gender, etc. it's not based on class, it's based on your ability to gain a share of a limited maker for goods and services. A financial competitor is always going to try and offer a better deal to try and get your business to come to his, but that's business.

Thedas isn't like that at all. In Thedas and old world feudal societies, you can be denied the ability to open a shop, go to certain places, or interact with certain people based on your birth alone, let alone any other factors.

[Wissenschaft]

Its not so much Tali's trainer was robotic but that Qunari are not given to emotional outbursts or displaying emotion at all. They are a very stoic people but being stoic and feeling no emotion at all are two very different things.

[SerCambria358]

In the very end he cracked. He started spewing empty threats. I lost all respect for him after that. Too bad he died and I couldn't make fun of him.

The military leader of Thedas's most powerful military machine was spewing "empty threats"?

[Chari]

It's sad that the idea of being in love and not sharing the bed is so alien to people, they blame the Qun for that

You won't die if you don't have sex, you ain't no ferret

[SerCambria358]

It's sad that the idea of being in love and not sharing the bed is so alien to people, they blame the Qun for that

You won't die if you don't have sex, you ain't no ferret

But they recognize that as a weakness. Think about all the negative outcomes of falling in love and having sex only because it feels good. Sex is a powerful weapon when you arent the one falling for its temptation, so having an army that doesnt need nor want sex, is very useful. (not to mention itll ensure there are no brutal incidents like what happened with Loghains mother)

[katerinafm]

The appeal comes from certainty. Lots of people go through periods of their life where they face uncertainty. They don't know if they're making the right decisions, if they are doing what they are meant to be, etc. Others feel worthless altogether and don't find anything they are good enough to do in their life. Meanwhile the Qun finds a role for everyone and everyone has a purpose. That's where the appeal lies.

 

Of course it's all a nice concept until you consider that the Qun forces roles to those that DO have something that they want to do instead of the role the Qun demands of them and will be killed if they refuse it. But on the surface, that's pretty much what is appealing about the Qun.

[Keroko]

You're confusing a taxing issue (where the 1% actually pays out more in taxes than the 99% when the 99% have been convinced that the 1% should still be paying more with the ironic "their fair share" motto) in a conversation about cultural freedoms and liberties of the Qun.

And there are always people who will try to steal or hinder your success. It's called a competitive marketplace. What people can't do is try to stop you because of where you were born, your skin color, gender, etc. it's not based on class, it's based on your ability to gain a share of a limited maker for goods and services. A financial competitor is always going to try and offer a better deal to try and get your business to come to his, but that's business.

Thedas isn't like that at all. In Thedas and old world feudal societies, you can be denied the ability to open a shop, go to certain places, or interact with certain people based on your birth alone, let alone any other factors.

 

Not just taxes, but also wealth. And by extension, power.

 

Anyway, my point was that "you can do anything if you want it enough" is a hugely optimistic dream that reality has shown doesn't always work out. We've all heard the success stories, but note how few those success stories are. For each story of someone climbing up from nowhere to fame and glory, there are thousands of untold stories of people who failed to do so. And not all of those who failed lack the willpower.

 

The Qun is a monstrously oppressive regime by any modern western standard. But given that it offers equality it should be able to find converts anywhere. Even in the US, if they were to ask the starving homeless man on the street if he wants to join, I fully expect that he would. Because to the starving, homeless man there are more upsides than downsides. It's a system that really appeals to the have-nots.

 

That, and ISIS has showed that there are enough crazy people in this world who don't mind throwing away freedom, even if they live perfectly comfortable western mid-class lives.

[Steelcan]

in universe its appealing because the qun demands only what you are capable of giving with no preference to race.

 

IRL because its an interesting philosophy that is a stark contrast to the traditional cultures of Thedas