481 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia_Nox]

@Tarvesh:  May I make an genuine inquiry.  Are you a white, straight male?

[Karlone123]

Could the Qunari do worse than the human or elves?

[Gtdef]

The military leader of Thedas's most powerful military machine was spewing "empty threats"?

 

That's usually what we call threats that are delivered with the dying breath.

[Chala]

It's a society where nothing is left over and everyone has a function, like it or not. I can I see a lot of perks behind that.

But since I'm the kind of human who loves to do everything at his heart's content once he is out of work, the price is too damn high for me     

[Steelcan]

Could the Qunari do worse than the human or elves?

its hard to screw up more than elves

[The Elder King]

its hard to screw up more than elves

Humans' biggest screw up lead to the Blights. It's difficult to top this.

[SerCambria358]

That's usually what we call threats that are delivered with the dying breath.

Not really, thats what you call threats that arent backed by anything. The Arishok of all people in Thedas has more than enough backing to support any threat he makes, especially when he says they will invade Thedas

[Steelcan]

Humans' biggest screw up lead to the Blights. It's difficult to top this.

According to the Chantry yet someone who was actually there implies that the City was already corrupted when they arrived there

[The Elder King]

Didn't he say when dying 'we will return' or something like that? How's this an empty threat? The qunari will invade Thedas again. And with the current conditions that the rest of Thedas is in, they're making things easier for them.

[Killdren88]

@Tarvesh:  May I make an genuine inquiry.  Are you a white, straight male?

 

While I understand why you bring that up..I'd rather that you didn't. I'd rather not get this locked over those sorts of arguments.

[The Elder King]

According to the Chantry yet someone who was actually there implies that the City was already corrupted when they arrived there

I'm not talking about the City itself. I'm talking about the creation of the darkspawn. Cory and his boys were the one who found Dumat and lead to first Blight.
Is it possible that the Darkspawn might've come anyway? Yes. It doesn't change that their pride and stupidity lead to the Blights.

[TK514]

This is a seductive simplicity in the idea of having your life's path spelled out for you at a young age.  No worrying about some of life's more difficult choices, because they are decided for you by society itself.  No important opportunity costs to be considered, no conflicting interest between job and life, because it is all the same thing.  It might be almost a relief for someone who didn't know where their lives were going, or who didn't know what (if) they were going to be eating tomorrow to have all those decisions handled by someone else, and replaced by the certainty of purpose.

 

There is a certainty in the Qun.

 

Not one I would personally embrace, but I can see how those with a lot of uncertainty in their lives would find it appealing and refreshing. 

[Steelcan]

I'm not talking about the City itself. I'm talking about the creation of the darkspawn. Cory and his boys were the one who found Dumat and lead to first Blight.
Is it possible that the Darkspawn might've come anyway? Yes. It doesn't change that their pride and stupidity lead to the Blights.

getting corrupted by old gods far more powerful than they could have ever hoped to deal with isn't their fault.

 

furthermore, they were misled by a being believed to be a deity

 

 

I won't fault them for being tricked/corrupted by such a being

[The Elder King]

getting corrupted by old gods far more powerful than they could have ever hoped to deal with isn't their fault.
 
furthermore, they were misled by a being believed to be a deity
 
 
I won't fault them for being tricked/corrupted by such a being

Fair enough. I'd. It wasn't something they did for their survival. They just wanted more and more power. They were too greedy.

[Gtdef]

The Qunari didn't invade anything. They were chasing the book and for some unspecified reason decided to raze Kirkwall, then paid for it. The Arishok is defeated in the end and if he succeeds on his mission depends entirely on the charity of another.

 

So yes, his threats are pretty empty. He should thank us instead (in case Isabela returned). If the Qunari decide to invade in the future, it will have nothing to do with this particular Arishok.

 

I don't even understand where you are getting the "support" or whatever. He is dead, none will ever give a second thought about who he was and what he wanted. That's what Qunari do.

[The Elder King]

The Qunari didn't invade anything. They were chasing the book and for some unspecified reason decided to raze Kirkwall, then paid for it. The Arishok is defeated in the end and if he succeeds on his mission depends entirely on the charity of another.
 
So yes, his threats are pretty empty. He should thank us instead (in case Isabela returned). If the Qunari decide to invade in the future, it will have nothing to do with this particular Arishok.
 
I don't even understand where you are getting the "support" or whatever. He is dead, none will ever give a second thought about who he was and what he wanted. That's what Qunari do.

And I didn't say they invaded Kirkwall. My 'again' is based on the previous invasion in the Steel Age.
He said they'll return. They will, becuase it's their plan to invade and conquer Thedas.

[SerCambria358]

The Qunari didn't invade anything. They were chasing the book and for some unspecified reason decided to raze Kirkwall, then paid for it. The Arishok is defeated in the end and if he succeeds on his mission depends entirely on the charity of another.

 

So yes, his threats are pretty empty. He should thank us instead (in case Isabela returned). If the Qunari decide to invade in the future, it will have nothing to do with this particular Arishok.

 

I don't even understand where you are getting the "support" or whatever. He is dead, none will ever give a second thought about who he was and what he wanted. That's what Qunari do.

1.)Unspecified reason? That book is THE book of the qun made by the founder himself, how'd you miss that

 

2.)The Qunari didnt invade anything? They invaded everything down to Nevarra before it took the entire continent to push them back to rivain and that was when they first contacted the continent having literally zero knowledge of their opponent

 

3.) Him losing a small skirmish miles away from the main army in no way concludes that his threats arent backed by, again, the most powerful military machine in Thedas

 

4.) I dont get how him being dead automatically deduces that the threat he made wont be fulfilled, if tell someone theyre going to die tomorrow, before being killed myself and a hitman kills whomever it was i threatened, that means my threat was carries out and it was not "empty" or without backing. I had a legitimate basis to make that threat and it carried through.

 

 

Are you really trying to argue that? 

[Gtdef]

Razing Kirkwall has nothing to do with the book. Arishok is well aware that Isabela stole the book and left the city. He confronts Hawke about this if Hawke doesn't tell him himself.

 

His threat is as valid as Hawke responding that "if they return they will all die". The only reason that this debate has any merit is because the Arishok is the highest rank in Qunari military hierarchy. The problem is that there is none else that would qualify for this mission. What happened is that the military leader of the Qunari perished in the hands of a commoner-recently-turned-noble and this is laughable by itself.

 

What I get by this whole situation is that the military leader of the "strongest military force in Thedas" failed at every possible level and died a comical death. Everything that he says with his dying breath is ironic. 

 

I admit that empty isn't the right word, only because that's what Qunari do, fight and convert. But it's still pretty laughable. ^^

[The Baconer]

Arishok (formerly Sten) should know better. I can't wait to drown them all in the sea.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Baconer:  Actually, Sten should really give the qunari pause. 

 

"Those humans are insane.  They're willing to do anything, ANYTHING, to survive.  They'll cut their neighbors to ribbons, introduce alien entities into their bodies, eat blue or red magic dust or drink Darkspawn blood.  Do we even WANT to conquer these people?"

[Keroko]

getting corrupted by old gods far more powerful than they could have ever hoped to deal with isn't their fault.

 

furthermore, they were misled by a being believed to be a deity

 

 

I won't fault them for being tricked/corrupted by such a being

 

Elves didn't really do a lot of stupid things pre-dalish either. They encountered humans, engaged in friendly trade, discovered that engaging with humans kills them -which, being immortal, terrified the hell out of them- and decided to isolate themselves and continue living in peace.

 

Then tevinter came and ruined everything.

 

Elves fought for their freedom next to Andraste, established their own kingdom and decided that "we've had quite enough of humans, thankyouverymuch" and became an isolationist society.

 

History becomes blury next. Chantry claims the elves were practicing demon worship, elves claim the chantry kept trying to convert them to the Maker. Sparks fly, war starts (Chantry claims elves started it, elves the opposite) and the elves push back the humans. The Chantry calls for an Exalted March and proceeds to pull a Tevinter and cleanse the **** out of the elven culture, forbidding elvish religion, forcing the elves to convert to the Maker and dumping them in slums.

 

Aside from believing humans would leave them alone twice, not a lot of stupidness in pre-dalish elves.

 

 

The Qunari didn't invade anything. They were chasing the book and for some unspecified reason decided to raze Kirkwall, then paid for it. The Arishok is defeated in the end and if he succeeds on his mission depends entirely on the charity of another.

 

So yes, his threats are pretty empty. He should thank us instead (in case Isabela returned). If the Qunari decide to invade in the future, it will have nothing to do with this particular Arishok.

 

I don't even understand where you are getting the "support" or whatever. He is dead, none will ever give a second thought about who he was and what he wanted. That's what Qunari do.

 

I think you misunderstand something. He wasn't threatening us. Threatening implies asking for something and using the threat as leverage. "Do this, or else."

 

The Arishok wasn't demanding anything. And there is no alternative to the qunari. No "if you do this, we won't invade." The qunari will invade again, regardless of what happened at Kirkwall. He wasn't threatening us, he was warning us.

 

I suppose you could say it was one last sign of respect to Hawke. Typical qunari respect that makes you wonder whether you actually want it, but respect nonetheless.

[Super Drone]

It's sad that the idea of being in love and not sharing the bed is so alien to people, they blame the Qun for that

You won't die if you don't have sex, you ain't no ferret

 

Asexuality is not a learned trait. You are or you aren't. Repressing your sexuality  leads to psychosis, depression and a tortured existence.

 

When I first read the Qun stance on sex and reltionships, it sounded like something that would appeal to asexuals who don't understand how verisexuals work.

[Pierce Miller]

Because people have stupid thoughts all the time.

[Gtdef]

 

I think you misunderstand something. He wasn't threatening us. Threatening implies asking for something and using the threat as leverage. "Do this, or else."

 

The Arishok wasn't demanding anything. And there is no alternative to the qunari. No "if you do this, we won't invade." The qunari will invade again, regardless of what happened at Kirkwall. He wasn't threatening us, he was warning us.

 

I suppose you could say it was one last sign of respect to Hawke. Typical qunari respect that makes you wonder whether you actually want it, but respect nonetheless.

 

I don't perceive it that way. He says "one day, we shall return". He speaks with authority, making a statement (which is what a threat is, an aggressive statement, using this for leverage is called intimidation). This doesn't sound like respect. Typical qunari respect is "I'll be honored to face you in battle". The Arishok speaks like he has unfinished business and being defiant. Which just makes me want to make fun of him. Show him a mirror.

 

I could be wrong sure, but every instance of qunari respect was welcomed before that. I don't think this is the same.

[Super Drone]

Tallis is a very bad qunari.

 

And yet she's the poster child for pro-Qun arguements. "She flirts! She smiles! See! The Qun is not oppressive and awful! Felicia Day!".

 

She broke the Qun's Demands pre-Redemption, would have let the Sarabaas go if he wasn't murdering people, consorted inappropriately with a Bas, and was considering becoming Tal-Vashoth right then and there after said Bas died.

 

Bad. Qunari. Her mentor had the sense of self enough to understand what he was and go Tal-Vashoth, Tallis just flip-flops where her heart takes her. Which makes her a prime example of how the Qun is a terrible system to be a flawed, human, person in. Good thing were aren't flawed, human people, huh?