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[TTTX]

 

 

 

I don't perceive it that way. He says "one day, we shall return". He speaks with authority, making a statement (which is what a threat is, an aggressive statement, using this for leverage is called intimidation). This doesn't sound like respect. Typical qunari respect is "I'll be honored to face you in battle". The Arishok speaks like he has unfinished business and being defiant. Which just makes me want to make fun of him. Show him a mirror.

 

I could be wrong sure, but every instance of qunari respect was welcomed before that. I don't think this is the same.

 

We pretty get hinted at in DA:O by Sten that Qunari will soon invade and apparently sometime in his life by the sound of it and then in DA2 by the Arishock and by the Qunari DLC. The Qunari has been planning for round two with Thedas for probably since they got pushed back.

 

The Qunari is going to invade, no doubt about. What the Arishock said wasn't a threat, it was a fact they are going to return and he stated it perfectly.

[Fidite Nemini]

When you compare the core tenets, the Qun isn't much different from the original idea of socialism as envisioned by Marx. It really appears to be simply that merged with a good portion of religious zealotry.

 

And the classic socialism is, despite the abominable versions dictators called communism, as close to an ideal, utopian and fair society as we can imagine.

 

 

I also try to make a point not wanting to jump to conclusions based on biased observations. All we know from the Qun comes either from their soldiers, their priesthood and the Tal Vashoth, all of which are prone to have opinions on the rather extreme spectrum originating from their professions, or in the Tal Vashoth's case a spiteful image.

 

So what I do know about the Qun is that it's social ideas are quite marxist (which isn't bad at all!), that they have an unusually extremist mindset about magic (see Baas/Saarebaas), yet apparently even bound, gagged and controlled as they are, the Saarebaas we actually interact with didn't mind it as much as you'd think from our own cultural bias.

 

 

This could be just a very strong indoctrination, or it's conviction.

 

 

In short:

I am postponing my opinion as much as I can, but am favouring a positive tendency.

[TTTX]

And yet she's the poster child for pro-Qun arguements. "She flirts! She smiles! See! The Qun is not oppressive and awful! Felicia Day!".

 

She broke the Qun's Demands pre-Redemption, would have let the Sarabaas go if he wasn't murdering people, consorted inappropriately with a Bas, and was considering becoming Tal-Vashoth right then and there after said Bas died.

 

Bad. Qunari. Her mentor had the sense of self enough to understand what he was and go Tal-Vashoth, Tallis just flip-flops where her heart takes her. Which makes her a prime example of how the Qun is a terrible system to be a flawed, human, person in. Good thing were aren't flawed, human people, huh?

She does give us insight in the general mentality of the Qunari, which is filled with ignorance simple because they can't understand the people of Thedas.

 

Even though she likes the Qun, she isn't a Qunari at heart, she does what her heart tells her is right while a true Qunari will do as his/her duty dictates.

[Mihura]

It's a Medieval society.

Individuality and choice matter not a bit anyway. For every farmer who gets to choose to farm, fish, or be a merchant there is one who starves at the whim of the tax man or winter with no support from his lord. He'll also never be a knight or a nobleman or a King because it only matters what womb he came out of in determining that.

God help you if you're an elf or Casteless Dwarf.

 

The Qun is equal with everyone having the same prestige and place as well as being taken care of by the state. Everyone is honored for following their role. The top positions are also filled by service rather than bloodline. Who is Arishok is determined by who is the most badass Qunari, not whether his dad was Arishok.

 

It's a society of merit.

No racism either.

 

Thedas could learn a lot from it...and vice versa.

 

I think the most problematic thing is that, they try to covert others saying the Qun is the only way and using brainwash as a weapon if you do not accept. The Qun is not that equal even for those that submit, if you are a mage for example, or a woman that excels at fighting. 

The Qun could be a better society if they helped people with talents be really good at a certain task and not force them on roles associated with gender, magic or whatever. To be equal, you need to be treat as a qunari first and the rest second.

 

To me people living in the Qun are as equal as living in Chantry dominated lands, both are born a certain way being with titles or a gender and so preform different roles. Of course in Ferelden for example you have the freedom to become more without be killed on the spot. 

[Gtdef]

We pretty get hinted at in DA:O by Sten that Qunari will soon invade and apparently sometime in his life by the sound of it and then in DA2 by the Arishock and by the Qunari DLC. The Qunari has been planning for round two with Thedas for probably since they got pushed back.

 

The Qunari is going to invade, no doubt about. What the Arishock said wasn't a threat, it was a fact they are going to return and he stated it perfectly.

 

I have a bit of trouble going by that logic. When Sten hinted that qunari will invade, they had the Arishok of DA2 as their military leader.

This same Arishok is now dead. Now I'm not sure what are the demands of the Qun as far as invasion goes, but there has been a change in leadership. What Sten from DAO will do as the Arishok is yet to be seen, but obviously the DA2 Arishok doesn't have the capability to make this decision anymore

[The Baconer]

They could at least be consistent.

 

- The Qun wastes nothing! We're the ultimate pragmatists!

 

- What? A member of the Beresaad returned without their sword, which by all means we should consider a simple object of utility? Kill them immediately!

[Gtdef]

Perhaps they cook them and eat them. That's what I'd do anyway.

[Super Drone]

 

It's fascinating how the Dragon Age community tends to do this a lot. Those who like dwarfs tend to brush their abuse of the casteles under the rug. Those who like the dalish tend to downplay how much of a bunch of dicks they are to anyone not them. Those who like the Chantry tend to ignore the Chantry's penchant for rewriting history, ethnic cleansing (because yes, the Chantry does this too) and ignoring the abuses they should be striving to prevent.

 

It really shows how biased we can get over the things we like.

 

Who's showing what bias now? Did I say the Chantry was awesome and perfect? or the Dwarven system? All system's are corrupt, people make them that way. The Qun probably is full of high ranked Tammassrans who wield poor judgement, use their position to favor themselves and their friends and get spiteful revenge on those they dislike. High ideals alone don't do squat in curbing bias.

 

However, personally, I'd take hypocrisy and unequality in a society where I can build a little life of my own. The best society is the one that let's me participate as little or as much as I choose.

[Keroko]

To me people living in the Qun are as equal as living in Chantry dominated lands, both are born a certain way being with titles or a gender and so preform a different roles. Of course in Ferelden for example you have the freedom to become more without be killed on the spot. 

 

Well, something different sure. Something more is... slightly harder. Significantly harder if you've set your eyes on nobility.

[Willowhugger]

And yet she's the poster child for pro-Qun arguements. "She flirts! She smiles! See! The Qun is not oppressive and awful! Felicia Day!".

 

She broke the Qun's Demands pre-Redemption, would have let the Sarabaas go if he wasn't murdering people, consorted inappropriately with a Bas, and was considering becoming Tal-Vashoth right then and there after said Bas died.

 

Bad. Qunari. Her mentor had the sense of self enough to understand what he was and go Tal-Vashoth, Tallis just flip-flops where her heart takes her. Which makes her a prime example of how the Qun is a terrible system to be a flawed, human, person in. Good thing were aren't flawed, human people, huh?

 

I agree 100%.

Tallis is an example of what I expect Non-Arishok types to be like.

 

People who WANT to serve the Qunari way but FAIL.

[TTTX]

I have a bit of trouble going by that logic. When Sten hinted that qunari will invade, they had the Arishok of DA2 as their military leader.

This same Arishok is now dead. Now I'm not sure what are the demands of the Qun as far as invasion goes, but there has been a change in leadership. What Sten from DAO will do as the Arishok is yet to be seen, but obviously the DA2 Arishok doesn't have the capability to make this decision anymore

Sten is Qunari through and through even though he is probably changed in some ways because of his adventures with the Warden, if the demand of the Qun comes that it is time to "educate" Thedas then he will follow that order to the letter.

 

The Arishock is not the only "leader" so to speak of the Qunari the others have their say in the matter to.

[Willowhugger]

I think the most problematic thing is that, they try to covert others saying the Qun is the only way and using brainwash as a weapon if you do not accept. The Qun is not that equal even for those that submit, if you are a mage for example, or a woman that excels at fighting. 

The Qun could be a better society if they helped people with talents be really good at a certain task and not force them on roles associated with gender, magic or whatever. To be equal, you need to be treat as a qunari first and the rest second.

 

To me people living in the Qun are as equal as living in Chantry dominated lands, both are born a certain way being with titles or a gender and so preform different roles. Of course in Ferelden for example you have the freedom to become more without be killed on the spot. 

 

Yeah, the Qun is a flawed system.

 

It's like the Templar vs. Mage debate.

 

The issue isn't whether the Qun is perfect. It's massively-massively NOT. The question is whether the Qun is better than living as a peasant in Orlais or as a City Elf.

 

Now if THOSE are your choices.

 

What do you choose?

 

I think what you choose says a lot about you.

On my end? I'd choose the Qunari way as long as I got to keep my view of the Maker despite condemnation. Better people who actually give a **** about whether you live or die than Orlesians.

[Super Drone]

Yeah, the Qun is a flawed system.

 

It's like the Templar vs. Mage debate.

 

The issue isn't whether the Qun is perfect. It's massively-massively NOT. The question is whether the Qun is better than living as a peasant in Orlais or as a City Elf.

 

Now if THOSE are your choices.

 

What do you choose?

 

I think what you choose says a lot about you.

On my end? I'd choose the Qunari way as long as I got to keep my view of the Maker despite condemnation. Better people who actually give a **** about whether you live or die than Orlesians.

 

F**k Orlais. Orlais is just awful. If I was the unstoppable world-smasher people really want the DA heroes to be, I'd sack Valroyeux and put toss the nobles into the streets.

 

Not all nations are Orlais, though. Fereldan is better ( though not perfect), so are Marcher cities. The peasants are peasants, but they aren't literally without legal rights.

[BartDude52]

To me, the Qun is comparable to modern-day Islam in that they see their religion as the only 'true' or 'correct' religion, and that anyone who does not follow it is a heathen and needs to be 're-educated' (i.e. converted). Excerpts from the section of the article on the Dragon Age Wiki about the Qunari with regards to outsiders and converts explains quite well the most of what's wrong with the Qunari:

"The Qunari view other nations as inferiors, kabethari (literally, "those who need to be taught") who are to be conquered and "enlightened", i.e. converted to the Qun. In the newly subdued areas they dismantle families: children are torn away from their parents and raised as Qunari, while adults are sent to "learning" (labor) camps for re-education performed by a branch of priesthood called the Ben-Hassrath.

 

Refusal to cooperate is seen as illness to be cured, and those who resist are taken to the viddathlok, temples dedicated to healing. What happens later is not quite clear, but it is known that the Qunari  use a substance called qamek to turn them into mindless laborers forced into indentured servitude or sent to mines or construction camps. Some would return, changed in profound ways, some would perish of exhausation or starvation and some would be slain."

 

So basically, as a non-Qunari, either convert or be turned into a mindless labourer. If you don't see anything wrong with that then something's clearly wrong with you.

 

So, yeah, no thanks Qunari - Thedas doesn't want you. While the Chantry sure as hell may not be perfect, it's clearly better than the Qun by a long way. I'd much rather the Chantry be the dominant force in Thedas than the Qunari.

 

The Qun is an oppressive religion (or something of that ilk) that needs to be stomped out of Thedas, and, if given the option in Inquisition, I'll try my very best to do that.

[Keroko]

Who's showing what bias now? Did I say the Chantry was awesome and perfect? or the Dwarven system? All system's are corrupt, people make them that way. The Qun probably is full of high ranked Tammassrans who wield poor judgement, use their position to favor themselves and their friends and get spiteful revenge on those they dislike. High ideals alone don't do squat in curbing bias.

 

However, personally, I'd take hypocrisy and unequality in a society where I can build a little life of my own. The best society is the one that let's me participate as little or as much as I choose.

 

It was more an analysis over what I've seen on the board in general, not a direct accusation.

 

 

Yeah, the Qun is a flawed system.

 

It's like the Templar vs. Mage debate.

 

The issue isn't whether the Qun is perfect. It's massively-massively NOT. The question is whether the Qun is better than living as a peasant in Orlais or as a City Elf.

 

Now if THOSE are your choices.

 

What do you choose?

 

I think what you choose says a lot about you.

 

Oi ve, that's a hard question. Orlesian peasant life is not a happy place to be, especially in times of war (Orlais loooves conscription in times like these). But it also varies immensely depending on the lord of your lands. 

 

'course, being a city elf is always a road to suffering. Arguably worse than the Qun, considering you have almost no job opportunities, the difference between 'job' and 'slave' being a thin line in Orlais and virtually no hope of rising up in the social ladder whatsoever (not that human peasants have that much of a greater chance).

 

But then the Qun would be terribly stifling, from as far as we've seen. Although we haven't seen what qunari peasant life looks like.

 

.... Can I choose to skip this choice? All options sound terrible to me. I rather like my modern western lifestyle.

[SerCambria358]

Razing Kirkwall has nothing to do with the book. Arishok is well aware that Isabela stole the book and left the city. He confronts Hawke about this if Hawke doesn't tell him himself.

 

His threat is as valid as Hawke responding that "if they return they will all die". The only reason that this debate has any merit is because the Arishok is the highest rank in Qunari military hierarchy. The problem is that there is none else that would qualify for this mission. What happened is that the military leader of the Qunari perished in the hands of a commoner-recently-turned-noble and this is laughable by itself.

 

What I get by this whole situation is that the military leader of the "strongest military force in Thedas" failed at every possible level and died a comical death. Everything that he says with his dying breath is ironic. 

 

I admit that empty isn't the right word, only because that's what Qunari do, fight and convert. But it's still pretty laughable. ^^

Your bias view of the qunari is what shines through your responses. You completely ignore the multiple attacks on the Qunari while they literally sat there and did nothing yet dont mention that as a legitimate reason to take control of Kirkwall, how is his threat of the Qunari returning the same as the example you put? They arent the same.

 

As for Hawke winning, you must not watch a lot of movies or play any other games, there are plenty of other examples of opponents who on paper should no doubt win but due to plot armor, the "hero" of course wins. Deducing that he was pathetic because of this plot convenience isnt legitimate.

 

Losing a battle does not conclude that someone failed on every possible level, thats just a blatant exaggeration especially considering that the only failure that occured under his command was that final battle, beyond that he successfully assassinated someone who plotted against him and nearly took control of an entire city state with a hand full of warriors who were also sailors.

 

Are you doubting that the Qunari are the strongest military force in thedas?

 

I dont think you understand what irony is and why it doesnt apply to what he says, he says the qunari will return, what is the irony in that? They plan on invading, literally zero irony in that statement.

[Willowhugger]

F**k Orlais. Orlais is just awful. If I was the unstoppable world-smasher people really want the DA heroes to be, I'd sack Valroyeux and put toss the nobles into the streets.

 

Not all nations are Orlais, though. Fereldan is better ( though not perfect), so are Marcher cities. The peasants are peasants, but they aren't literally without legal rights.

Even Fereldan has Vaughn and Howe.

But yes, Orlais and Tevinter are the two biggest countries in Thedas.

The Anderfels?

It's like the Holy Roman Empire meets Mad Max.

And then in the Marches there's KIRKWALL.

 

This is why I think people like the Qun.

[Willowhugger]

 

Are you doubting that the Qunari are the strongest military force in thedas?

Honestly, I think the Qunari are full of hot air.

 

I think the Qunari can't beat the Tevinter alone, let alone all of Thedas.

But they can't admit they can't win either.

So they just talk about how they'll convert all them heathens...Eventually.

Hawke prevented the actual invasion to satisfy the Arishok's sense of honor at being a massive **** up.

[Gtdef]

Sten is Qunari through and through even though he is probably changed in some ways because of his adventures with the Warden, if the demand of the Qun comes that it is time to "educate" Thedas then he will follow that order to the letter.

 

The Arishock is not the only "leader" so to speak of the Qunari the others have their say in the matter to.

 

The difference between Sten and the former Arishok is perspective. The Qunari are strangers to the blight and threats of magical nature that the world is undergoing. Sten is exposed to this. He has seen the importance of human practices and accepted the race.

 

The world that Sten came from before joining up with the Warden and the world currently are different. What was doesn't have to be anymore. And while there are three leaders, who's opinion do you think will have the most impact in military matters?

 

What does the Qun even require for threats that are unfamiliar to the one that created the religion?

 

Only Bioware can make the decision of how their universe proceed, but I don't think that their decision to make Sten arishok and limit the Qunari conflict to skirmishes with Tevinter (that the rest of thedas pretty much holds in contempt) was by chance.

[Mihura]

Well, something different sure. Something more is... slightly harder. Significantly harder if you've set your eyes on nobility.

 

Sure it is harder and sometimes even impossible but at least they are alive. 

 

Yeah, the Qun is a flawed system.

 

It's like the Templar vs. Mage debate.

 

The issue isn't whether the Qun is perfect. It's massively-massively NOT. The question is whether the Qun is better than living as a peasant in Orlais or as a City Elf.

 

Now if THOSE are your choices.

 

What do you choose?

 

I think what you choose says a lot about you.

On my end? I'd choose the Qunari way as long as I got to keep my view of the Maker despite condemnation. Better people who actually give a **** about whether you live or die than Orlesians.

 

I agree, if I had to choose I would go with the Dalish way of living and beliefs.

[SerCambria358]

Honestly, I think the Qunari are full of hot air.

 

I think the Qunari can't beat the Tevinter alone, let alone all of Thedas.

But they can't admit they can't win either.

So they just talk about how they'll convert all them heathens...Eventually.

Hawke prevented the actual invasion to satisfy the Arishok's sense of honor at being a massive **** up.

History tells a different story, they've already conquered Tevinter in the past along with the upper half of Thedas. The only reason they lost was because all of Thedas finally united under the Chantry.

 

There are hundreds of thousands (maybe over a million not sure) of qunari that have literally only trained for one roll which is to kill opponents in battle, that fact alone makes them no doubt a legitimate threat.

 

So i wouldnt exactly say they're full of hot air nor that they cant beat tevinter when they already did that and some

[Willowhugger]

History tells a different story, they've already conquered Tevinter in the past along with the upper half of Thedas. The only reason they lost was because all of Thedas finally united under the Chantry.

 

There are hundreds of thousands (maybe over a million not sure) of qunari that have literally only trained for one roll which is to kill opponents in battle, that fact alone makes them no doubt a legitimate threat.

 

So i wouldnt exactly say they're full of hot air nor that they cant beat tevinter when they already did that and some

 

I disagree as the Tevinter never signed the treaty and the Qunari have been at war with them ever since.

[SerCambria358]

I disagree as the Tevinter never signed the treaty and the Qunari have been at war with them ever since.

Disagree with what? They took over Tevinter and defeated them, when the chantry came and pushed them out, Tevinter got back on their feet and began fighting again. The reason they did not sign the treaty was because the treaty ensured that the Qunari would keep Seheron which was previously Tevinter.

 

They clearly have been saving up resources for their second invasion so it isnt as if they "havent" been able to defeat them again. The only reason they're at war is because Tevinter let them keep Seheron so its more harrassment from both sides rather than total war.

 

edit:Par Vollen 

[Willowhugger]

Disagree with what? They took over Tevinter and defeated them, when the chantry came and pushed them out, Tevinter got back on their feet and began fighting again. The reason they did not sign the treaty was because the treaty ensured that the Qunari would keep Seheron which was previously Tevinter.

 

They clearly have been saving up resources for their second invasion so it isnt as if they "havent" been able to defeat them again. The only reason they're at war is because Tevinter let them keep Seheron so its more harrassment from both sides rather than total war.

 

I disagree the Qunari could defeat Tevinter again, let alone all of Thedas.

[Medhia_Nox]

They're actually invading in the most permanent way there is. 

 

You take land - make peace, secure the land you took, get ready to take more land.

 

Thedas really should NEVER be okay with this if they want to stay free.