They're actually invading in the most permanent way there is.
You take land - make peace, secure the land you took, get ready to take more land.
Thedas really should NEVER be okay with this if they want to stay free.
Their spy system is actually really really dangerous if it's not so much spying as converting people to the Qun in secret.
Your bias view of the qunari is what shines through your responses. You completely ignore the multiple attacks on the Qunari while they literally sat there and did nothing yet dont mention that as a legitimate reason to take control of Kirkwall, how is his threat of the Qunari returning the same as the example you put? They arent the same.
As for Hawke winning, you must not watch a lot of movies or play any other games, there are plenty of other examples of opponents who on paper should no doubt win but due to plot armor, the "hero" of course wins. Deducing that he was pathetic because of this plot convenience isnt legitimate.
Losing a battle does not conclude that someone failed on every possible level, thats just a blatant exaggeration especially considering that the only failure that occured under his command was that final battle, beyond that he successfully assassinated someone who plotted against him and nearly took control of an entire city state with a hand full of warriors who were also sailors.
Are you doubting that the Qunari are the strongest military force in thedas?
I dont think you understand what irony is and why it doesnt apply to what he says, he says the qunari will return, what is the irony in that? They plan on invading, literally zero irony in that statement.
What the hell are you talking about. My bias? Since when the Qunari care about vengeance? If the demand of the Qun is the absolute law then Arishok defied this. You obviously don't understand the importance of Arishok leading an expedition. The fact that he is shows how important it is. Instead he abandons his duty to do something inconsequential.
If anyone is biased here, that's you. What the hell does it matter how the common plot of movies and games evolve. Do we discuss the coherence and the writing ability of Bioware or what happened? Because the latter is what I'm commenting on. He is pathetic (which is not the word I used) because he strayed from his duty, he lost the battle, he lost the duel and the success or failure of his mission is directly tied to the charity of the thief that created the trouble in the first place.
But in any case, he didn't actually take the town. Killed the viscount and barricaded himself into the keep is what he did. He still had to face the Templars, half the guard and their leadership was intact.
I don't doubt the Qunari military prowess, that's painfully obvious. But they didn't win last time the invaded and not only that, but one of the most important people to make this decision is dead. What will happen after this is yet to be seen, but we have indications of change.
I understand perfectly well what irony is. Thank you. I just have a different opinion.
Edit: Forgot to add that the Qunari did more than just sit there. They took advantage of the weakened state of Kirkwall and overstayed their welcome. I don't agree with what the fanatics did, but I doubt that Arishok isn't aware of this. If his concern was for the well being of his soldiers, then he could do something about it. Instead he stayed and replaced his loses with fresh recruits and didn't accept talks with the Viscount after the initial "agreement".
I disagree the Qunari could defeat Tevinter again, let alone all of Thedas.
Then you disagree, my only point was that they have shown more than once that they arent much more than "hot air" so i dont see how they cant back up their image.
Throwing in my opinion, Thedas is completely weakened between blights, civil war, Mage-Templar conflicts and now demon invasions. The Qunari dedicate their lives to one roll, so again their are hundreds of thousands if not, over a million qunari that have been waiting for this invasion literally their entire lives training non stop for this ONE goal.
If the qunari were to invade without the interference of plot armor, i think they'd no doubt conquer at least the same portion of land they did before, any further, i have no idea, its completely dependent on Thedas's strength after all this chaos
The difference between Sten and the former Arishok is perspective. The Qunari are strangers to the blight and threats of magical nature that the world is undergoing. Sten is exposed to this. He has seen the importance of human practices and accepted the race.
The world that Sten came from before joining up with the Warden and the world currently are different. What was doesn't have to be anymore. And while there are three leaders, who's opinion do you think will have the most impact in military matters?
What does the Qun even require for threats that are unfamiliar to the one that created the religion?
Only Bioware can make the decision of how their universe proceed, but I don't think that their decision to make Sten arishok and limit the Qunari conflict to skirmishes with Tevinter (that the rest of thedas pretty much holds in contempt) was by chance.
Sten doesn't seem to have changed his views on Thedas as a whole he still think as a Qunari, just because he respects the Warden and Alistar and such doesn't mean he doesn't believe the rest of Thedas could use some education. Also Sten can be dead and not be the Arishock
If the Priesthood of the Qunari demands of the Arishock it's time to educate Thedas and make them see then it's his job to fulfill that duty, it was probably the same reason why the former Arishock was tasked to get the tomb back, because he was the best for roll.
No idea.
Sten being Arishock is optional, War will come with the Qunari ad judging how DA:I will leave most of Thedas in a weaken state fitting for an invasion.
To me, the Qun is comparable to modern-day Islam in that they see their religion as the only 'true' or 'correct' religion, and that anyone who does not follow it is a heathen and needs to be 're-educated' (i.e. converted). Excerpts from the section of the article on the Dragon Age Wiki about the Qunari with regards to outsiders and converts explains quite well the most of what's wrong with the Qunari:
"The Qunari view other nations as inferiors, kabethari (literally, "those who need to be taught") who are to be conquered and "enlightened", i.e. converted to the Qun. In the newly subdued areas they dismantle families: children are torn away from their parents and raised as Qunari, while adults are sent to "learning" (labor) camps for re-education performed by a branch of priesthood called the Ben-Hassrath.
Refusal to cooperate is seen as illness to be cured, and those who resist are taken to the viddathlok, temples dedicated to healing. What happens later is not quite clear, but it is known that the Qunari use a substance called qamek to turn them into mindless laborers forced into indentured servitude or sent to mines or construction camps. Some would return, changed in profound ways, some would perish of exhausation or starvation and some would be slain."
So basically, as a non-Qunari, either convert or be turned into a mindless labourer. If you don't see anything wrong with that then something's clearly wrong with you.
So, yeah, no thanks Qunari - Thedas doesn't want you. While the Chantry sure as hell may not be perfect, it's clearly better than the Qun by a long way. I'd much rather the Chantry be the dominant force in Thedas than the Qunari.
The Qun is an oppressive religion (or something of that ilk) that needs to be stomped out of Thedas, and, if given the option in Inquisition, I'll try my very best to do that.
That is a pitifully one dimensional opinion.
It's also solely based on in-universe written accounts. Those that have been written by the Chantry and Tevinter, who aren't only naturally biased against the Qun and its people, but are in the former's case competitors if you go down to it. When has McDonalds ever written something positive about Burger King?
To re-emphasize: the Dragon Age lore codex is written in-universe, by inhabitants of Thedas. They are not an objective account given by the game's writers.
Then you disagree, my only point was that they have shown more than once that they arent much more than "hot air" so i dont see how they cant back up their image.
Throwing in my opinion, Thedas is completely weakened between blights, civil war, Mage-Templar conflicts and now demon invasions. The Qunari dedicate their lives to one roll, so again their are hundreds of thousands if not, over a million qunari that have been waiting for this invasion literally their entire lives training non stop for this ONE goal.
If the qunari were to invade without the interference of plot armor, i think they'd no doubt conquer at least the same portion of land they did before, any further, i have no idea, its completely dependent on Thedas's strength after all this chaos
The Qunari are also riddled with internal strife and can't get rid of the Tal-Vashoth they have infecting their lands according to Sten. They're waging a never-ending guerilla war against the Qunari and the implications are they're growing in number.
Given there's now mercenary bands of Qunari wandering around, I wouldn't be surprised if they're growing as a population.
Honestly, I think the Qunari are full of hot air.
I think the Qunari can't beat the Tevinter alone, let alone all of Thedas.
But they can't admit they can't win either.
So they just talk about how they'll convert all them heathens...Eventually.
Hawke prevented the actual invasion to satisfy the Arishok's sense of honor at being a massive **** up.
A possible theory is that the qunari are waiting before making a full scale invasion. After all, if they do conquer Tevinter, that'd make the rest of Thedas alert.I disagree the Qunari could defeat Tevinter again, let alone all of Thedas.
Even Fereldan has Vaughn and Howe.
But yes, Orlais and Tevinter are the two biggest countries in Thedas.
The Anderfels?
It's like the Holy Roman Empire meets Mad Max.And then in the Marches there's KIRKWALL.
This is why I think people like the Qun.
Again, people gloss over the bad aspects of having your entire life dictated to you by a giant, faceless, machine that is society. Not just your job, or how much money you have in comparison to others. Everything.
Their spy system is actually really really dangerous if it's not so much spying as converting people to the Qun in secret.
Again, people gloss over the bad aspects of having your entire life dictated to you by a giant, faceless, machine that is society. Not just your job, or how much money you have in comparison to others. Everything.
And I think you overlook the sheer staggering HORROR and daily struggle of life in a Feudal Society when you're not one of the gangster at the top.
The Qunari are also riddled with internal strife and can't get rid of the Tal-Vashoth they have infecting their lands according to Sten. They're waging a never-ending guerilla war against the Qunari and the implications are they're growing in number.
Given there's now mercenary bands of Qunari wandering around, I wouldn't be surprised if they're growing as a population.
Again, people gloss over the bad aspects of having your entire life dictated to you by a giant, faceless, machine that is society. Not just your job, or how much money you have in comparison to others. Everything.
That sounds a tad stricter than what I've read about the Qun so far. I don't believe the Qun is so strict that you need to consult your daily shoppings with the Arishok.
There is no shopping. You are provided with what the Qun demands you be provided with. "Merchants" as bas know them do not exist in Qunari society, the closest thing to it are resources managers.
Qunari Citizen: I will be buying 1lb of lard, three smoked salmon, a dozen eggs..
Arishok: NO EGGS!
Qunari Citizen: No eggs... four loaves of bread, salted pork, a tin of cookies...
Arishok: The Qun demands you supply the Arishok with a tin of cookies! Go on.
Qunari Citizen: Alright... TWO tins of cookies... and a pound of salt.
Arishok: NO! Salt is against the Qun! After you give me my tin of cookies - you will fall on your blade! The Qun demands!
====
Wow, you're right. Life in the Qun is HARD.
Merchants exist in qunari society.There is no shopping. You are provided with what the Qun demands you be provided with. "Merchants" as bas know them do not exist in Qunari society, the closest thing to it are resources managers.
What the hell are you talking about. My bias? Since when the Qunari care about vengeance? If the demand of the Qun is the absolute law then Arishok defied this. You obviously don't understand the importance of Arishok leading an expedition. The fact that he is shows how important it is. Instead he abandons his duty to do something inconsequential.
If anyone is biased here, that's you. What the hell does it matter how the common plot of movies and games evolve. Do we discuss the coherence and the writing ability of Bioware or what happened? Because the latter is what I'm commenting on. He is pathetic (which is not the word I used) because he strayed from his duty, he lost the battle, he lost the duel and the success or failure of his mission is directly tied to the charity of the thief that created the trouble in the first place.
But in any case, he didn't actually take the town. Killed the viscount and barricaded himself into the keep is what he did. He still had to face the Templars, half the guard and their leadership was intact.
I don't doubt the Qunari military prowess, that's painfully obvious. But they didn't win last time the invaded and not only that, but one of the most important people to make this decision is dead. What will happen after this is yet to be seen, but we have indications of change.
I understand perfectly well what irony is. Thank you. I just have a different opinion.
How did i imply that he made this decision out of vengeance? Theres a difference between attacking someone only out of a personal vendetta and then theres attacking someone so you arent attacked again. Inconsequential? I think you forgot the part where Aveline left him two choices, turn in the suspects (which he wouldnt do because the qun demands they stay for conversion) or be attacked. He didnt choose to attack the city he reacted to a situation where he was left with one choice. Plus from the perceptive of a qunari, "cleansing" a city as corrupt as Kirkwall is in no way inconsequential, it is exactly what the qun demands.
Because im defending my point im bias? I've supported my points with legitimate evidence and facts, regardless to whether im a fan of the Arishok, that shouldnt diminish what im saying. Well when the writing of Bioware affects what happenes, yes i think its fair to bring up why the outcome occurred. As i mentioned above, taking the city is quite the opposite of straying from his duty which is always primarily the quns demands.
He completely defeated the city guard, it was outside help that changed the outcome, whether they could have beaten the handful of mages and templars is up for debate.
Yes they did "win" they successfully invaded the upper half of Thedas, it was 55 years after the fact that they were pushed back and even then Thedas could only settle on a treaty.
Irony isnt dependent on opinion, so im still not sure you understand what the irony is. Can i ask what the irony was?
The Qunari are also riddled with internal strife and can't get rid of the Tal-Vashoth they have infecting their lands according to Sten. They're waging a never-ending guerilla war against the Qunari and the implications are they're growing in number.
Given there's now mercenary bands of Qunari wandering around, I wouldn't be surprised if they're growing as a population.
That doesnt really deduce that the qunari arent well prepared for an invasion.
Unless we know how much of the population is running off, then we cant make any conclusions only based on that.
And I think you overlook the sheer staggering HORROR and daily struggle of life in a Feudal Society when you're not one of the gangster at the top.
No, I'm not. It's sucky. I get it. But human beings learn to survive, and even be happy in poor conditions. Human beings stifle and die when forced to repress their natures.
No, I'm not. It's sucky. I get it. But human beings learn to survive, and even be happy in poor conditions. Human beings stifle and die when forced to repress their natures.
Listen, I'd rather not live there too but plenty of societies have existed every bit as strict as the Qun.
Confucian China, for example, and they survived just fine without becoming Stalinist hellholes.
Listen, I'd rather not live there too but plenty of societies have existed every bit as strict as the Qun.
Confucian China, for example, and they survived just fine without becoming Stalinist hellholes.
Confucian China didn't have enforced breeding programs, dismantling of family units or mind-wipe drugs. They also didn't sword-point convert people to Confucianism.
Confucian China didn't have enforced breeding programs, dismantling of family units or mind-wipe drugs. They also didn't sword-point convert people to Confucianism.
1. Matches were, however, entirely arranged ahead of time and not subject to individual choice.
2. The dismantling of the family was counteracted with complete obedience to an all-powerful patriarch.
3. You got me there. They just tended to kill dissenters.
4. That's just a part of conquest in Thedas.
Merchants exist in qunari society.
From the Wiki:
The Qunari reject private property. They also don't have currency, nor do they engage in direct bartering: they don't buy and sell things amongst one another. "Merchants" in Qunari cities have the job of making sure goods are distributed appropriately. They will however, trade with the rest of Thedas in a limited matter. To the Qunari, this trade is less a way to obtain goods as an opportunity to learn more about those who do not yet accept the Qun as law."
From the Wiki:The Qunari reject private property. They also don't have currency, nor do they engage in direct bartering: they don't buy and sell things amongst one another. "Merchants" in Qunari cities have the job of making sure goods are distributed appropriately. They will however, trade with the rest of Thedas in a limited matter. To the Qunari, this trade is less a way to obtain goods as an opportunity to learn more about those who do not yet accept the Qun as law."
That seems to be wrong as Sten explicitly talks about Qunari merchants.
Confucian China didn't have enforced breeding programs, dismantling of family units or mind-wipe drugs. They also didn't sword-point convert people to Confucianism.
Not sure about the last one...but I would put it past them to do that if that was possible.
How this imply that there aren't Merchants? Even if those inside the society aren't, the one who trade with the rest of Thedas are still Merchants.From the Wiki:
The Qunari reject private property. They also don't have currency, nor do they engage in direct bartering: they don't buy and sell things amongst one another. "Merchants" in Qunari cities have the job of making sure goods are distributed appropriately. They will however, trade with the rest of Thedas in a limited matter. To the Qunari, this trade is less a way to obtain goods as an opportunity to learn more about those who do not yet accept the Qun as law."
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