97 réponses à ce sujet

[Sharn01]

Human was the default. When you started a new game, you were presented with a human character. You had the ability to change the race, but it alwaud started as human.

BioWare has actually acknowledged that the the only way to measure actual player preferences on this would be to randomise the default so as not to bias the sample. It would be cool if Inquisition did this.

I would go as far as to say that to make it completely random they would have to not have a default at all, not even a random one.  If you where presented the races in alphabetical order with no selection made for you and the instructions promted you to make a selection to move further that would truly get you an idea of what people will pick, same with gender.

 

I doubt they would ever do this, many players will want something premade so they can jump quickly into the game.  I had a friend who played through Mass Effect three times and was surprised when he came over and saw me playing a female Shep, he had simply jumped into the game as quickly as possible and never checked what options where available.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would go as far as to say that to make it completely random they would have to not have a default at all, not even a random one.  If you where presented the races in alphabetical order with no selection made for you and the instructions promted you to make a selection to move further that would truly get you an idea of what people will pick, same with gender.

Then the order of the list would bias the selection.  You should randomise the order.

[Nefla]

I'm not sure why this surprises people.

 

Is it really that surprising when given the option of race most people pick their own?

 

*shrug*

 

I admit I played humans in DAO because HN is one of my favorite origins. (but elf mage beats it so :3)

Yes, to me it is mind boggling. I'm already human in real life, why would I want to be human in a fantasy game with other interesting races? I mean if they let me choose to have my character as a world saving hero or a cake decorator (my RL profession) I would not go with cake decorator. I want to experience different perspectives, especially if I find their cultures more interesting (like I do with Elves/Dwarves/Qunari). I mean I will want to do everything eventually, but I'm definitely never going to restrict myself to only what I already am or already see every day.

[Ryzaki]

Yes, to me it is mind boggling. I'm already human in real life, why would I want to be human in a fantasy game with other interesting races? I mean if they let me choose to have my character as a world saving hero or a cake decorator (my RL profession) I would not go with cake decorator. I want to experience different perspectives, especially if I find their cultures more interesting (like I do with Elves/Dwarves/Qunari). I mean I will want to do everything eventually, but I'm definitely never going to restrict myself to only what I already am or already see every day.

 

Because playing as a human in a world of different species is interesting on it's own and the lives of the character's in these games is not remotely something I see everyday.

 

And I'm certainly not a badass giant sword wielding proud leader cutting through hordes of darkspawn either. Just because we share a race does not make us the same. She has a different perspective on life than I would. I can get the bolded just as much with a human PC than a non human one. I don't live in a Fereldan like culture. Nor is the ways of Orlais familiar to me. I'm not a poor Fereldan refugee that's a mage running from the blight, I'm not a human noble who loses her family in one night and then ends up with the taint because she's been concripted into the grey wardens. I'm not a spirit monk trained by my master to take down the Emperor, I'm not Darth Revan, I'm not the Bhaalspawn, I'm not a SPECTRE named Shepard who died and got brought back to life and so on. They're all humans (or possibly in Bhaalspawn's case). They're not all the same by virtue of their race.

 

I'm not sure why people seem to think human protag = nothing new to be explored. That's hardly the case. Now you may enjoy the other races more and that's fine. But there's plenty of value and new things to experience while playing a human protagonist.

 

That said I play human males so I can avoided the underlined just fine while playing humans ;P I'm also playing mages and nobles. Definitely not those.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2014 - 02:06 .

[AresKeith]

Couslands are awesome like that

[Ryzaki]

Couslands are awesome like that

 

XD

 

My cousland is one of my more badass characters

[Nefla]

Because playing as a human in a world of different species is interesting on it's own.

 

And I'm certainly not a badass giant sword wielding proud leader cutting through hordes of darkspawn either. Just because we share a race does not make us the same. She has a different perspective on life than I would. I can get the bolded just as much with a human PC than a non human one. I don't live in a Fereldan like culture. Nor is the ways of Orlais familiar to me. I'm not a poor Fereldan refugee that's a mage running from the blight, I'm not a human noble who loses her family in one night and then ends up with the taint because she's been concripted into the grey wardens. I'm not a spirit monk trained by my master to take down the Emperor, I'm not Darth Revan, I'm not the Bhaalspawn, so on. They're all humans. They're not all the same by virtue of their race.

 

I'm not sure why people seem to think human protag = nothing new to be explored. That's hardly the case. Now you may enjoy the other races more and that's fine. But there's plenty of value and new things to experience while playing a human protagonist.

There are definitely games, movies, books, and shows where I feel like the different human cultures are unique and intriguing, but DA isn't one of them. Human culture in DA is far too familiar. It's an obvious parallel of different medieval European societies mixed with modern North American morals and culture and even the medieval European aspects are kind of like different paint jobs on the same culture without ever going into depth about anything unique. The only really unique cultural differences between Human nations can only be found in the codex or the wiki and are never really seen in game. I do like to eventually play a human as well to see what's different when you're seen as privileged and everyone has the right to like to play human or play human only, but that restriction will never have any kind of appeal to me.

[Ryzaki]

There are definitely games, movies, books, and shows where I feel like the different human cultures are unique and intriguing, but DA isn't one of them. Human culture in DA is far too familiar. It's an obvious parallel of different medieval European societies mixed with modern North American morals and culture and even the medieval European aspects are kind of like different paint jobs on the same culture without ever going into depth about anything unique. The only really unique cultural differences between Human nations can only be found in the codex or the wiki and are never really seen in game. I do like to eventually play a human as well to see what's different when you're seen as privileged and everyone has the right to like to play human or play human only, but that restriction will never have any kind of appeal to me.

 

I didn't live in medieval Europe (nor overly interested in it really) so it's new enough to me I suspect I'm far from the only person who feels that way too. Restriction? Are we talking about games where you have a choice in race? Cause in that case people are simply picking their preferences. DA2 yeah everyone was forced to be human. DAO that was hardly the case yet that's what the overwhelming majority went with. I mean I find the human cultures as interesting as the rest. The only culture I'm really not interested in is the dalish really. So I'm guessing that's a YMMV situation on how interesting you'd find them.

 

Regardless that really doesn't change the fact that the human PC in games is hardly an extension of the player's everyday life or something  many of us would see everyday and for plenty of people that might be more than enough variance.

 

I perfectly understand preferring other races. But some (not you if you haven't said anything like this) of you lot lose me with the humans are boring or why would you want to play human when you are human cause you already have that experience. You don't want to play humans? Fair enough but the trying to act like playing humans isn't a different experience like elf/qunari/dwarf is ridiculous.

 

Edited: for brevity.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2014 - 02:25 .

[Nefla]

I didn't live in medieval Europe (nor overly interested in it really) so it's new enough to me I suspect I'm far from the only person who feels that way too. Restriction? Are we talking about games where you have a choice in race? Cause in that case people are simply picking their preferences. DA2 yeah everyone was forced to be human. DAO that was hardly the case yet that's what the overwhelming majority went with. I mean I find the human cultures as interesting as the rest. The only culture I'm really not interested in is the dalish really. So I'm guessing that's a YMMV situation on how interesting you'd find them.

 

Regardless that really doesn't change the fact that the human PC in games is hardly an extension of the player's everyday life or something  many of us would see everyday and for plenty of people that might be more than enough variance.

 

I perfectly understand preferring other races. But some (not you if you haven't said anything like this) of you lot lose me with the humans are boring or why would you want to play human when you are human cause you already have that experience.

When I said that kind of "restriction" held no appeal to me, I meant the people who will ONLY play humans and never try anything else. You may think "why play human when I'm already human in real life?" is annoying and dumb, as I think "I will play only human because I am human of course" as annoying and dumb. In DA2 (to me) being restricted to human only was one of the worst things they could have done. I found nothing culturally new or interesting about Hawke/Hawke's family/Hawke's interaction with the world. We see snippets about Nevarra in the codex/wiki as well as Tevinter which we also hear about from Fenris. Those cultures seem different and interesting. Antiva also seems like it might be interesting. Too bad we don't get to go to any of those places or have our character be one of their citizens. Ferelden and Kirkwall are generic medieval England paralells that you find in any medieval movie or game. The only reason for me to be a Cousland in DA:O was to be king/queen and to see the difference being treated as a noble sometimes. The only point in playing an Amell to me was if you want to be taller. Purely aesthetic. (I would pick Surana any day though)

 

Long story short, If they tried harder with the human cultures and added a LOT more to make them feel unique and different from real life and from what I can get in every other medieval game(which the non human cultures do) then I would play human more.

[Eelectrica]

In this game setting the elves are kind of the underdogs. So playing as the underdog character and saving the world is appealing.

Qunari seem interesting because they're already feared and qunari fear their own mages as it is so that's even better.

Most of the population in thedas is human so another human hero doesn't appeal to me as much.

Either way I'll have to have more non human characters than humans to show appreciation to BioWare for taking the time to include more options.

The irony from BioWares stand point has to be the number of people (myself included) looking forward to Witcher 3 containing exactly 1 character choice. But different setting and game world.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

You can be a human in any game. That's why I try my best to avoid them. I prefer to see the world from the perspective of one of the more interesting races.

But I do have a Cousland, and if I play Inquisition, I may indeed end up with two human inquisitors, because I would like to carry at least four world states over, and I like to change up my character with each playthrough.

[Steelcan]

glorious human master race

[Ryzaki]

When I said that kind of "restriction" held no appeal to me, I meant the people who will ONLY play humans and never try anything else. You may think "why play human when I'm already human in real life?" is annoying and dumb, as I think "I will play only human because I am human of course" as annoying and dumb. In DA2 (to me) being restricted to human only was one of the worst things they could have done. I found nothing culturally new or interesting about Hawke/Hawke's family/Hawke's interaction with the world. We see snippets about Nevarra in the codex/wiki as well as Tevinter which we also hear about from Fenris. Those cultures seem different and interesting. Antiva also seems like it might be interesting. Too bad we don't get to go to any of those places or have our character be one of their citizens. Ferelden and Kirkwall are generic medieval England paralells that you find in any medieval movie or game. The only reason for me to be a Cousland in DA:O was to be king/queen and to see the difference being treated as a noble sometimes. The only point in playing an Amell to me was if you want to be taller. Purely aesthetic. (I would pick Surana any day though)

 

Long story short, If they tried harder with the human cultures and added a LOT more to make them feel unique and different from real life and from what I can get in every other medieval game(which the non human cultures do) then I would play human more.

 

I might be more sympathetic if it didn't feel like such a judgement call like people who play humans aren't rping differently from their normal state as much as those who don't. If that wasn't your intention I apologize but that's how it's coming off to me. I've never been a noble fallen from grace to rise again so I found plenty interesting about it. Hawke's background in magic and how that lead to his family's (demise really) is interesting enough.

 

Most of those games aren't BW games though so being able to play said character makes all the difference for me.

 

Cousland to me had the best plot relevance. They had a excellent story of falling from grace to raise again avenging their foes on the way and regaining their lost wealth.

 

Though I admit Amell was boring but that's because Amell and Surana were pretty much interchangeable but Surana got the extra "eww elf!" comments so I picked her instead :3

 

I guess that's fair. I find them different enough from my real life now (and familiar in comforting ways). It's not like the city elf was that off from my day to day (being a sideeyed group dealing with racism? Heh. That's not new to me. Only difference was her ass was short. Big whoop). That said going on a roaring rampage of revenge was as was the whole underdog story. But I find it as interesting as the HN story as it gave my character a very personal reason for her quests and the decisions she made.

 

That wasn't strengthened by her not being human. (or weakened for that matter). If she had been a different human culture being treated the same way by the Fereldans I'd empathized just as much.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2014 - 02:49 .

[Ryzaki]

The only time race has been an insurmountable barrier was when they simply added things on my do not want list. Like dwarves being short (the constant craning neck to look up makes me freaking LOSE it), and the male Qunari being...unappealing to me.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Well, in the end they gave us our races PLUS a new one.
 
I'd call that an epic win.

And we should be very grateful that they listened to us dedicated fans, since it would seem they did it in spite of the fact that their data suggests it to be a poor resource investment. If Bioware were doing what made the most financial sense based on their data of what people play, a human only protagonist would be entirely justified, and as much as we might be unhappy, it would hard to argue rationally against such a decision from a resource allocation standpoint. Including races when their data shows that a only relatively small minority of players will bother to use them is an explicit acknowledgement of, and catering to, the preferences of the hardcore fans. We should give a big thank you to Bioware for caring what we want and doing their utmost to give it to us.

[PrinceofTime]

glorious human master race

Preach!

[Nefla]

I might be more sympathetic if it didn't feel like such a judgement call like people who play humans aren't rping as much as those who don't. If that wasn't your intention I apologize but that's how it's coming off to me. I've never been a noble fallen from grace to rise again so I found plenty interesting about it. Hawke's background in magic and how that lead to his family's (demise really) is interesting enough.

 

Most of those games aren't BW games though so being able to play said character makes all the difference for me.

 

Cousland to me had the best plot relevance. They had a excellent story of fallening from grace to raise again avenging their foes on the way and regaining their lost wealth.

 

Though I admit Amell was boring but that's because Amell and Surana were pretty much interchangable but Surana got the extra "eww elf!" comments so I picked her instead :3

 

I guess that's fair. I find them different enough from my real life now (and familiar in comforting ways). It's not like the city elf was that off from my day to day (being a sideeyed group with racism? Heh. That's not new to me). That said going on a roaring rampage of revenge was as was the whole underdog story.

It's all just my opinions and my reasoning for my own decisions. Yes, I feel like people who restrict themselves to only playing human because "I am human in real life" are probably doing it to play a self insert which doesn't appeal to me at all but they can do what they want. It just baffles me. To ignore something I feel is so awesome and has so much potential in favor of something we've seen so many times over I will never be able to understand. People have wildly different tastes and there are even tons of people who would just press accept accept accept without customizing anything and skip all the dialogue and cutscenes just so they can get to the combat parts.

 

I feel like DA2 did a bad job in the storytelling department in general. I never felt like a "noble fallen from grace to rise again" because DA2 "told" rather than "showed" what I felt like was an errand and delivery girl/boy. You never actually experience being poor and having to starve, make hard decisions to survive, and scrape by and you never experience having the privilege, authority respect, and lavish lifestyle of a noble. You're a courier with a crappy house and then you're a courier with a better house. I did feel that Cousland had a MUCH better story than Hawke.

[Ryzaki]

It's all just my opinions and my reasoning for my own decisions. Yes, I feel like people who restrict themselves to only playing human because "I am human in real life" are probably doing it to play a self insert which doesn't appeal to me at all but they can do what they want. It just baffles me. To ignore something I feel is so awesome and has so much potential in favor of something we've seen so many times over I will never be able to understand. People have wildly different tastes and there are tons of people who would even just press accept accept accept without customizing anything and skip all the dialogue and cutscenes just so they can get to the combat parts.

 

I feel like DA2 did a bad job in the storytelling department in general. I never felt like a "noble fallen from grace to rise again" because DA2 "told" rather than "showed" what I felt like was an errand and delivery girl/boy. You never actually experience being poor and having to starve, make hard decisions to survive, and scrape by and you never experience having the privilege, authority respect, and lavish lifestyle of a noble. You're a courier with a crappy house and then you're a courier with a better house. I did feel that Cousland had a MUCH better story than Hawke.

 

I mostly play humans so welp. Your awesome potential is someone else's boring. (And vice versa of course). But opinions and all that. (In SWTOR despite all those races the only race I play other than humans are male pure sith purebloods. And that's mostly because I really like how they look.) My SW and SI are male purebloods. My female SW and SI are humans. My agent? Human. Mercs? Human. I have 22 characters. I have 3 non humans in that bunch. And 1 of them are a remake of the same character.

 

DA2 did do a lot of telling rather than showing I agree. That said all of act 1 was Hawke being poor though I believe the game would've benefited more from the choice of selling out the merc/smugs blowing up in your face alas.

 

While I agree you don't get to see the lavish lifestyle and such I did feel there was more improvement than the house

 

But yeah DAO in general had a better story than Hawke. I'd probably say Hawke's story was the equal of the Dalish in DAO. Just kind of there.

[Nefla]

I mostly play humans so welp. Your awesome potential is someone else's boring. (And vice versa of course). But opinions and all that. (In SWTOR despite all those races the only race I play other than humans are male pure sith purebloods. And that's mostly because I really like how they look.) My SW and SI are male purebloods. My female SW and SI are humans. My agent? Human. Mercs? Human. I have 22 characters. I have 3 non humans in that bunch. And 1 of them are a remake of the same character.

 

DA2 did do a lot of telling rather than showing I agree. That said all of act 1 was Hawke being poor though I believe the game would've benefited more from the choice of selling out the merc/smugs blowing up in your face alas.

 

While I agree you don't get to see the lavish lifestyle and such I did feel there was more improvement than the house

 

But yeah DAO in general had a better story than Hawke. I'd probably say Hawke's story was the equal of the Dalish in DAO. Just kind of there.

And out of all my 29 SWtOR characters only a handful are human and all but one are based on existing characters. I doubt either of us will understand the other's viewpoint because we have too different of tastes. I'm glad everyone is getting what they want in DA:I because as much as I would hate to be restricted to human again, I would also hate it for someone else who thinks Dwarves are boring for example to be restricted to Dwarves.

[Ryzaki]

And out of all my 29 SWtOR characters only a handful are human and all but one are based on existing characters. I doubt either of us will understand the other's viewpoint because we have too different of tastes. I'm glad everyone is getting what they want in DA:I because as much as I would hate to be restricted to human again, I would also hate it for someone else who thinks Dwarves are boring for example to be restricted to Dwarves.

 

Fairly certain the most played race in SWTOR is human. (Probably by a immense landslide since most F2P people are stuck with just humans and cyborgs but I'd be fairly certain it was the most played race even before then).

 

Now I agree that being restricted to just human sucks. (Much like being stuck with just dalish elves _{still worst news of Inquisition}) I'm just really objecting to the whole people who play only as humans aren't rping as much/self insert things. I was more than capable of playing a self insert with my city elf. In fact pretty sure she was more of a self insert than my human noble was. Being a different race isn't really going to stop self inserting anymore than being the same race stops rping.

[Nefla]

Fairly certain the most played race in SWTOR is human. (Probably by a immense landslide since most F2P people are stuck with just humans and cyborgs but I'd be fairly certain it was the most played race even before then).

 

Now I agree that being restricted to just human sucks. (Much like being stuck with just dalish elves _{still worst news of Inquisition}) I'm just really objecting to the whole people who play only as humans aren't rping as much/self insert things. I was more than capable of playing a self insert with my city elf. In fact pretty sure she was more of a self insert than my human noble was. Being a different race isn't really going to stop self inserting anymore than being the same race stops rping.

I didn't say people who only play human are doing it as a self insert (as boring and pointless as I may find it) I said I feel people who only play human BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN IN REAL LIFE are playing self inserts. If the reason was "I like the familiar culture" or "I think the other races are ugly" or whatever then fine, but if THE ONLY reason you restrict yourself to human is because that's what you are in real life, I imagine most of those people pick the gender, hair color, skin and eye color and personality they have in real life as well thus a self insert.

 

Also I really don't care if most people pick human, most people don't finish the game either.

[Felene]

How about just put all race in one picture like GW2 did. While majority of GW2 player still choose human(2:1), other races are still quite common in game.

 

[EnduinRaylene]

Edit: Ha, me and Felene are on the same page.

 

Then the order of the list would bias the selection.  You should randomise the order.

Why not just have us choose Gender first. Then use a selection screen like DA2's Hawke menu to choose race. All four would be presented at once on even ground and selecting gender first would help prevent overcrowding the screen. 

 

Better yet, I think it would be really nice if they could do it all with the tarot cards. Use them for the gender selection then again for the race selection and finally class selection. Order doesn't really matter then, especially if none of the options are preselected for your cursor/controller highlight. 

[Ryzaki]

I didn't say people who only play human are doing it as a self insert (as boring and pointless as I may find it) I said I feel people who only play human BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN IN REAL LIFE are playing self inserts. If the reason was "I like the familiar culture" or "I think the other races are ugly" or whatever then fine, but if THE ONLY reason you restrict yourself to human is because that's what you are in real life, I imagine most of those people pick the gender, hair color, skin and eye color and personality they have in real life as well thus a self insert.

 

Also I really don't care if most people pick human, most people don't finish the game either.

 

And that's still making a judgement call? And it maybe one reason of many. Is it really that hard to ask someone not deride someone of playing a self insert unless you know they admit to playing the character as a self insert? There are people who do that and have no issues admitting it. You don't need to sweep everyone incorrectly under the same brush Some people play dwarves because they're short (like they are in real life). Are they playing self inserts? What about those of us playing Qunari because they match our height in real life?

 

I imagine you have the amount of care about that as I do about people playing dwarves so...?

 

Edit (this is in general not directed at anyone in specific):

 

Seriously I don't care about the whole I only play X race cause reasonz. I'm just tired of people acting like playing humans is a lesser experience or we're not rping cause we dare to use a character that's somewhat familiar. And it's a sentiment I got on more than this thread and I'm just damned tired of it. People can't play what they prefer for the reasons they prefer in damn peace? We got to do the not a true rper mudslinging bullshit into it?

[Thandal N'Lyman]

For DAO, there was no "default" race, gender, class, or caste.  Although "Male/Human/Warrior/(Noble)" was the first  offering, the player had to make a deliberate selection in each category. 

 

And the "80% Human" statistic comes directly from the actual choices made by all the players who opted-in to sending BioWare their gameplay feedback over the course of literally millions of games.  Numbers don't lie.