369 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChosenOne]

It been a LONG time since I've play dragon age. I was so psych for the DA:keep So I've re-Bought DA:O ultimate edition and DA:2 and all of it's DLC so I can make my perfect "canon" and will be ready for DA:I! But then as I was approach the end of DA:2 I remember something I shouldn't have forgotten.........

 

 

Anders.... My best friend and vice versa, just killed a whole building of innocents people! I have both killed him and let him go. But as DA:I approach and the release of the Keep gets closer I'm torn part by what decision I should stand by. People would argue it was necessary and justified, But It's like Aveline said " Belief is no excuse. Sincerity does justify this, " Isabella and Anders had a party banter about justice....

 

Anders: There is justice in the world.

 

Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.

 

Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?

 

Anders: Yes.

 

Don't the people in the Chantry, who were just praying to the Maker deserved justice too?.......... Well that's the end of that. Could you guys help by making me make a final decision? 

 

 

 

[lane]

here and hope it enlighten you and hope it helped on many levels.

http://forum.bioware.../#entry16567307

[Undead Han]

It really depends on how you shape Hawke's personality. Is it more in character for your Hawke to spare him or kill him? Is Hawke in favor of freeing mages, and if so, is Hawke in favor of using violent means (such as acts of terrorism) to accomplish it? Did Hawke feel manipulated or betrayed by Anders, and if so, would that Hawke normally punish betrayal with death? How does Hawke view the relationship between Anders and Vengeance/Justice, particularly in Act 3? Does Hawke view Anders as someone who is no longer fully in control of himself, like an abomination? If so, how would Hawke deal with that? Did Anders' actions put Bethany or Carver in peril, and if so, how much of an issue is that for Hawke?

[Althix]

just stab him.

i really hope that Hawke can hit a spinal cord... because with Hawke's IQ it may be hard for him to do.

 

p.s. i just can't see why you have problem with making a decision about Anders. He is just lying, murderous, possessed sob. execute him, let dogs eat his body.

[TheChosenOne]

just stab him.

i really hope that Hawke can hit a spinal cord... because with Hawke's IQ it may be hard for him to do.

 

p.s. i just can't see why you have problem with making a decision about Anders.

 

He is just lying, murderous, possessed sob. execute him, let dogs eat his body.

>.> I see someone doesn't like someone.......... 

[themikefest]

This is what I do. I kill him every time, all the time. No if's, and's or but's.

[TheChosenOne]

This is what I do. I kill him every time, all the time. No if's, and's or but's.

But Why did you kill him? That's what I would like to hear

[Althix]

But Why did you kill him? That's what I would like to hear

 

[TheChosenOne]

Good point 

[themikefest]

But Why did you kill him? That's what I would like to hear

He killed innocent people for no reason that had nothing to do with his crap

[Undead Han]

But Why did you kill him? That's what I would like to hear

 

I had Hawke kill Anders because...

 

• Hawke had spent a great deal of time and effort trying to keep peace between mages and templars, only to have Anders not only sabotage those efforts but trick Hawke into helping him do it.
• A lot of innocent people died as a result of Anders' actions, both directly and indirectly. 
• Hawke felt partially responsible for it because Anders was his companion, he had trusted that Anders could control Justice/Vengeance, and because he had been tricked into aiding Anders in carrying out the attack. Killing Anders was an effort at righting his own wrongs. He had helped to unleash Anders upon Kirkwall. Now he had a duty to save Kirkwall (or lands beyond) from him.
• Anders had clearly lost control of himself and could no longer be counted on to keep the worst influences of Justice/Vengeance under wraps. He was in a downward spiral and had been for quite some time. Allowing him to live posed a danger to even more innocent lives.
• Pity. Anders may not have been an abomination exactly as Justice isn't a demon, but he is something akin to it. His identity was being swallowed up by the spirit of Justice/Vengeance and his own free will was diminished. It's almost like indoctrination from the Mass Effect series. Killing Anders at that point is partially an act of mercy.

[Willowhugger]

Deserve to die?

That's a loaded question for such a self-loathing, self-destructive, tortured figure like Anders.

 

Did he need to die?

Maybe.

 

My Hawke killed him not because he was Anders' enemy but because he was his friend.

[Althix]

if i remember right.

 

if Anders 100% friend he is telling Hawke that he is about to die for some greater cause. He also saying that spirit inside him is a mess right now and hints that spirit is kinda forcing him to do something bad, when Anders himself want to find a better way. He also asking Hawke not to take blame for what is about to happen.

 

Now: We all know that some people are doing some crazy shhh for greater cause, like killing other people, like setting themself on fire etc. etc. <-These people called terrorists.

Also for a mage, he is rather dumb. He is fully aware about the Fade and about demonic possessions. Especially when spirits and demons are feeding on emotions of humans. It would be wise for him to fall on the axe or ask next templar to behead him just to be sure. Because Vengeance almost killed a fellow mage girl. But Anders is weak.

No matter what Anders is saying, Hawke is to blame about what would happen with Kirkwall next. Killing Anders is the only way to ensure that this possessed mage will be removed as a threat.

 

As for innocent people... i am not sure that such word should be even used for human beings. However there is victims.

 

So you may have several reasons to kill Anders: Pity, Justice (hehe), Vengeance. Also self preservation, removal of witness. Pacification. Creating a scapegoat.

And at the same time i really don't see any reasons to let Anders live, like none. I let Loghain live because of many reasons, but not Anders.

[Tremere]

My only problem with killing Anders is that they didn't let me do it while he was in mid-sentence... Or even better, separate his head from his neck and allow me to say something snarky or cold like, "Ironic that you'll finally get to see what justice looks like... Something like vengeance for sure."

 

Anders, like Rendon Howe deserved worse than he got. And for the record, I've always played as a Mage who is pro-Mage.

[Neria Rose]

I have always wanted to kill him afterwards. I rarely have, however, since he was usually my PC's LI and I could come up with some IC reason not to kill him.

[2Pac]

Considering he blew up the chantry very much so.

[ShadowLordXII]

Very likely.

 

But considering that killing him may be what he wants, there's nothing that can be accomplished from it. The damage is already done. The only logic behind killing him at this point is to keep Sebastian from leading Starkhaven to destroy Kirkwall (and even that's debatable as a real threat)

[Willowhugger]

On my end, I say kill Anders for meta-game and in-character reasons.

 

1. Kill Anders because it's the best place to end his story. Anders passes along the torch of Mage Freedom to Mage Hawke or, ironically, Non-Mage Hawke. Anders can start the revolution but only a just and righteous man can finish it.

 

2. Kill Anders in-character because you know he doesn't want to live after such a horrific deed and can't continue onward without falling further.

[KaiserShep]

Very likely.

 

But considering that killing him may be what he wants, there's nothing that can be accomplished from it. The damage is already done. The only logic behind killing him at this point is to keep Sebastian from leading Starkhaven to destroy Kirkwall (and even that's debatable as a real threat)

 

I don't think he really wants to die so much as he'd accept it if it came to that. That said, I don't think whether or not he actually desires to be killed really matters in terms of whether or not it accomplishes anything. After all, he's still a dangerous abomination who has been harboring a corrupted spirit. At the very least, killing him would finally be rid of Justice/Vengeance.

 

As for Sebastian's threat, I can't really say that this is usable as logic behind killing him, because Sebby doesn't make this threat until Hawke's already decided to spare him.

[Willowhugger]

Yes, don't kill Anders because Sebastian threatens the city if you do.

Rather, I'd argue just take it into account one of your character's close friends will take sparing the person who blew up his home for ten years and surrogate mother personally.

[Undead Han]

Very likely.

 

But considering that killing him may be what he wants, there's nothing that can be accomplished from it. The damage is already done. The only logic behind killing him at this point is to keep Sebastian from leading Starkhaven to destroy Kirkwall (and even that's debatable as a real threat)

 

Killing Anders prevents him from causing any more harm to Thedas. If you allow Anders to live he isn't going to live some peaceful life of solitude somewhere. Throughout the game you see Anders losing control of himself and giving in more and more to the worst of Justice's impulses. Allowing Anders to live runs a big risk that he's going to get up to similar shenanigans in some other corner of Thedas. 

 

Preventing Anders from possibly causing any more damage is a pretty solid reason by itself for killing him.

[Eelectrica]

On the one hand Martyrdom is exactly what anders/justice wants, so why give it to him,

On the other while he had his reasons, blowing up innocents is always the wrong way to go about it and the victims deserve justice of there own.

 

In my games I let him live for sebastions reaction - it is a game afterall. When it comes to creating a world state, I'll go with both, it'll be interesting to see how he winds up being left alive.

[Leliana-is-dead]

He's a mass murdering son of a ****** that has driven himself crazy, is supporting a cause that is wrong, using terrible means to do so, betrays what might be the only person who trusts him (I didn't because, again, possesed by demon), and the people need justice (Ironic isn't it?).

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Deserve to die?

That's a loaded question for such a self-loathing, self-destructive, tortured figure like Anders.

 

Did he need to die?

Maybe.

 

My Hawke killed him not because he was Anders' enemy but because he was his friend.

It doesn't matter what Anders needs or deserves. At this point what matters is preventing other people from dying. Even if Anders was saved from Justice the way Connor was saved from his demon (which would be risky, and possibly result in Merril's death, and which there isn't time for thanks to what he and Justice did) Sebastian is apparently going to kill a whole lot of people if Anders doesn't die. I agree with you on the major point: the question isn't whether he deserves to die, it's whether he needs to.

[Asdrubael Vect]

 

 

Anders.... My best friend and vice versa, just killed a whole building of innocents people!

Aveline said " Belief is no excuse. Sincerity does justify this, 

Don't the people in the Kirkwall Chantry, who were just praying to the Maker deserved justice too?.......... Well that's the end of that. Could you guys help by making me make a final decision? 

ok 

 

1)there is no innocent person in Orlais Chantry and Temaplars, especially in Kirkwall chantry

 

2)Avelin is biased andrastian person who forget what Orlais and Orlais Chantry/Tempalrs doing for milenia...and noone said that "Belief is no excuse. Sincerity does justify this"..the same was in the Kirkwall

 

3)you know for 10 years in this city who was suffering because of Orlais Chantry and Templars i see only criminals and bastards in this building...and noone pray in this cathedral especially in the night..exept some bastards from templars and priests like Petrice and far more worst b*tch like Elthina who was in charge for all what happen for 10 years in Kirkwall

 

so..

 

does Anders "betray" somebody?

 

no

 

does Anders was wrong to destroy the center of the Kirkwall problems?

 

no

 

does Anders do bad and unjust thing?

 

no

 

does anders was a "terrorist"?

 

hell no, this is a war and mages,non-mages, "heretics" have all rights to fight back.

 

does Anders deserve execution for his action?

 

no. especially from someone like Hawke, the hawke(no matter mage he or not) who support Templars is a real criminal and betrayal of his family and he is betraying himself and his future...he's blood never change and he's family is a apostage mages who was suffer of Temaplars

 

does Anders deserve to be killed and this is fair to kill him?

 

why not? noone care, kill him or not it will change almost nothing..but Sebastian deserve to be killed more if you ask...such a whinny and biased "saint" who is the same as Leliana, they only portrait themselfs as good persons but they do so many crimes and bad things that they  really deserve to be executed.all their fanatism is a result of their belief that they can clean themself from their filth.