369 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No one deserves to die.

 

That's naive.

I'd argue that it's true, actually. Though Dieb maybe should have put something in there about how despite nobody deserving to die, sometimes people need to.

[FemShem]

Either do what you think it right, or what your Hawke would think is right (depending on the type of player you are).  

Make the decision, enjoy the experience, and accept the consequences if there are any.

Know there is no right answer.

For me it always depends on the Hawke.  I did 9 playthrus...and only two Hawkes killed Anders.  One was very proChantry and proTemplar, the other was a goodie two shoes that never hurt anyone he didn't have to (my only male Hawke), but I decided Anders was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The other 7 had their own reasons for not killing him.

IDK if it's true with all gamers, but the first play through I play as more or less my real personality.  I wasn't going to kill him, but I also didn't interact with the R Mother until a later play through.  It probably also influenced the decision.

In DA:O my first play thru...I can't believe I remember this...at the beginning of the game a Chantry sister asks if you want a blessing.  I said no, she went off and called me a heretic...i.e. I don't like the Chantry.  So killing off a bunch of bigoted jerks didn't really bother me.  

Other PC toons had different POVs.  I like the RPG experience, so I let whatever toon I'm playing be pretty consistent, or develop and grow.  it's just fun.  People don't get how you can agonize over a choice.  

Some do, some don't.  Don't worry about it.  

 

[Sah291]

Know there is no right answer.

For me it always depends on the Hawke.  I did 9 playthrus...and only two Hawkes killed Anders. 

 

Yeah, I tend to make choices based on what I think suits the character best, or what I think makes the most interesting story, so I can't imagine my canon Hawke killing him. Given this was the same Hawke who fought the Arishok for Isabella, even though she was guilty, stopped Merrill's clan from killing her, and smacked down a magister for Fenris (despite the fact that he apparently sold himself into slavery in the first place). So seems to me that Hawke has a track record saving companions from having to pay the price...and wouldn't have done any less for Anders. Plus this is the same Hawke who started out as a mercenary, killing people for coin, so it feels right to finally say "no" to killing someone at the end for a change, after Seb demands it. 

[Bluestorm13]

Well even if you go along with the view from the Templars, it still gives Commander Meredith no right to abuse her power making mages tranquil for like over nothing. And by increasing the number of tranquil mages I wonder how theirs any left. I sympathize with the circle way more then the Templar. To me they are like saying. ( Ahh your scary cause your different you need to be locked up.). So yeah I have no sympathy's with the Templars order at all. Though I like Cullen. But he is a different matter. Just because magic is a dangerous and scary thing, gives the Templar Order no right for them to be locked up. So yes I agree with leaving Anders alive. Except the only downfall would be he is affected by Corypheus.  Also if Anders never did the whole explosion thing with the Chantry the whole Mage and Templar war would of never started. Leaving players wondering, huh? why is there suddenly a war? If you understand where I mean. Though I feel sorry for those who died in the explosion of the Chantry. The war was bound to happen one way or another.

[Ambivalent]

Since i think mage vs templar was based on church vs renaissance simply let him walk away. They deserved it and more.

 

If their Andraste were that powerful she could have saved chantry *evil laugh* Where is your Andraste now?

 

On serious depends on my Hawke but i mostly let him go since i really dislike whole religion talks going on in game since first one. Like Bioware wants us to convert to Andraste's religion -.-

[sjsharp2011]

I think it depends for me on what my Hawke is feeling at the time. Up until now I've been playing Hawke's that aer generally in favour of at least partially of the Templars showing that they care. But the Hawke I'm playing atm is missing her little sis after she was dragged off by Cullen to the Circle. She's feeling at the moment she needs to support the mages as no one else out there will and that they need protection not imprisonment. Especially after the rumours she's heard about Meredith. I am only in at the start of Act 2 at the moment so obviously a lot can change but right now that's what she's feeling.

 

Agreed @Sah291 My first playthrough is always me whatever choices I think I would make in those situations. The second playthrough onwards is all about how I think the character I'm RP'ing would handle the situation. For example my mage warden supported Behlen for the Orzammar throne because he liked the idea of a more open relationship between the dwarves and the surface dwellers which Behlen was backing. Whereas my last warden who was Behlen's brother didn't trust his brother to play fair not to mention that he felt he was betrayed by Behlen at the start of the game so threw his weight behind Harrowmont.

[Uccio]

Anders never dies in my games. It is freedom for mages through fire and blood, let them burn! Yeah baby!

 

[Magdalena11]

That confirms a few people's theories that Andraste was a Mage and the Maker was/is a spirit/demon aiding her in its plans for chaos.

 

I love the pattern when someone says "may the Maker watch over us all" and they die soon after.

I love this game.

[sjsharp2011]

yeah I agree @hagdalena11 I''ve been enjoying my latest playthrough the Hawke sisters slaying a Wyvern  in the Mark of the Assassin DLC Fells good to play the DLC's best in Act 2 I think as at least that way you can work with your sibling in all 3 acts then. Otherwise you won't get to see  or spend that much time with them in that second act. I really like Bethany much more than I've enjoyed Carver but both are still good characters

[Nelyafinwe]

Honestly i liked Anders in Awakening but not so much in DA2.

[MisterJB]

World of Thedas, Volume 2, page 258

 

"The rubble of the Chantry rained down like catapult shot over much of the city, collapsing buildings, blocking streets, and injuring hundreds of people. Half of Starkhaven's initiates and affirmed and a third of their garrison of Templars travelled to Kirkwall to search for survivors trapped under rubble and provide food and shelter to those left homeless by the explosion."

 

I'd say that earns him a knife to the spine.

[KaiserShep]

World of Thedas, Volume 2, page 258

 

"The rubble of the Chantry rained down like catapult shot over much of the city, collapsing buildings, blocking streets, and injuring hundreds of people. Half of Starkhaven's initiates and affirmed and a third of their garrison of Templars travelled to Kirkwall to search for survivors trapped under rubble and provide food and shelter to those left homeless by the explosion."

 

I'd say that earns him a knife to the spine.

Yeah. Like, wtf Anders? You use magic. You couldn't just have the Chantry burst into flames? At least you'd only take out the suckers inside and not half of frikkin' Hightown. 

[erilben]

Yeah. Like, wtf Anders? You use magic. You couldn't just have the Chantry burst into flames? At least you'd only take out the suckers inside and not half of frikkin' Hightown. 

 

He doesn't even need to go that far. He wants the Right of Annulment to happen. All that is required for that would be to assassinate Elthina, and then Meredith would have the power to invoke the RoA,. She will do it because she had been wanting to Annul the Circle since at least the start of Act 3. Only Elthina is blocking here. In Act 2 on the rivalry path, Anders promises Hawke that he would try to minimize lives lost, but he's such a liar about that.

[Solace]

I killed him. Because it's what I think should happen to people who enter buildings and shoot a bunch of people.

[ShadowLordXII]

I'd argue that it's true, actually. Though Dieb maybe should have put something in there about how despite nobody deserving to die, sometimes people need to.

 

I disagree.

 

Maybe Anders doesn't deserve to die, maybe he does. But to say that no one deserves to die is a naive statement.

 

Does the murderous conqueror not deserve to die for the thousands that he butchers on a whim? Don't blood mages who use their powers to harm others just because they can deserve to die? How about those who abuse their authority to rape and murder others without impunity? Or the sick father who molests his own children who loved and trusted him?

 

Whether someone deserves to die is a grey area, I'll admit. But stating that no one ever deserves to die is just plainly naive. That's tantamount to saying that you don't want anyone to die in war, but guess what's the common occurrence of war?

[KaiserShep]

I didn't really care what he deserved. The guy was trouble enough before he decided to blow stuff up. The Chantry (and a fair portion of Kirkwall along with it) pushed him well over the edge. I don't even care if he achieves martyrdom in the process. I wanted him dead because I was sick of his sh*t. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I disagree.

 

Maybe Anders doesn't deserve to die, maybe he does. But to say that no one deserves to die is a naive statement.

 

Does the murderous conqueror not deserve to die for the thousands that he butchers on a whim? Don't blood mages who use their powers to harm others just because they can deserve to die? How about those who abuse their authority to rape and murder others without impunity? Or the sick father who molests his own children who loved and trusted him?

 

Whether someone deserves to die is a grey area, I'll admit. But stating that no one ever deserves to die is just plainly naive. That's tantamount to saying that you don't want anyone to die in war, but guess what's the common occurrence of war?

The ones who would otherwise kill with impunity need to die if they can't otherwise be stopped. And if a blood mage who has been harming people doesn't surrender and submit to Tranquility (and the odds of that ever happening are not good) they need to die for the same reason. And if the sick father can't otherwise be prevented from further harming his children, (for instance if he happens to be that conqueror or a blood mage or [surprise surprise] merely physically stronger than his wife and children) the same applies. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck that there's no alternative, or that I believe they earned it even if their crimes included distributing unearned deaths.

 

I also don't see how naive it is to say that I don't want anyone to die in war. I don't see that as naive, I see it as a sign of feelings towards my fellow man. It's only naive if I think that there's always another option.

[Natureguy85]

The ones who would otherwise kill with impunity need to die if they can't otherwise be stopped. And if a blood mage who has been harming people doesn't surrender and submit to Tranquility (and the odds of that ever happening are not good) they need to die for the same reason. And if the sick father can't otherwise be prevented from further harming his children, (for instance if he happens to be that conqueror or a blood mage or [surprise surprise] merely physically stronger than his wife and children) the same applies. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck that there's no alternative, or that I believe they earned it even if their crimes included distributing unearned deaths.

 

I also don't see how naive it is to say that I don't want anyone to die in war. I don't see that as naive, I see it as a sign of feelings towards my fellow man. It's only naive if I think that there's always another option.

 

I think he means that it's an unrealistic sentiment. I think people who perpetrate particularly heinous crimes deserve to die, both as punishment and prevention. However, it's still not something to be taken lightly.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think he means that it's an unrealistic sentiment. I think people who perpetrate particularly heinous crimes deserve to die, both as punishment and prevention. However, it's still not something to be taken lightly.

If I didn't understand it before (and I think I did) this doesn't really add any new information. And I'm still not sure I agree with it.

 

Edit: In case people are missing this (though I'd thought I'd made it fairly clear), I'm not disputing that killing is a valid option for prevention. Just that it's a valid option for punishment.

[SwobyJ]

Deserve? Its hard for me to think in terms of that - both IRL and in-Thedas.

 

Need? As far as I still know, yes, he needed to die, and I was willing to kill him.

 

Okay, I've read through this thread and see a lot of the similar sentiment.

 

 

Its less about 'does Anders need to die?' and more 'is your Hawke willing to kill him?'.

[muy_thaiguy]

Deserve? Its hard for me to think in terms of that - both IRL and in-Thedas.

 

Need? As far as I still know, yes, he needed to die, and I was willing to kill him.

 

Okay, I've read through this thread and see a lot of the similar sentiment.

 

 

Its less about 'does Anders need to die?' and more 'is your Hawke willing to kill him?'.

Mine? Yes. Started out sympathetic to Anders and most mages (considering Hawke's family and what not), but as Anders became more and more of a ranting and raving lunatic, my Hawke was put off by him more and more. My Hawke was about helping the innocent and putting down those that hurt them. And when Anders blew up the Chantry, along with numerous innocent people, Hawke saw Anders as the psychopath and rabid dog he was. So like Old Yeller, Hawke put him down. Didn't enjoy it, but saw that he had to.

[Ninna]

Him living makes for interesting possibilities for the future (that I don't think will ever be explored, but still).

I knew he was up to something (explosive) when he asked for the ingredients but I was still shocked to see he actually went through with it.

 

My Hawke was romancing him. Anders was the thing I loved the most about DA2, despite everything, despite my complaining about his attitude (he was the one thing that kept me playing, at one point). I killed him because I could not believe he'd use my Hawke like that, and because it seemed he was too far gone, too much Justice turned into Vengeance and too little Anders, no way back. And since my Hawke was a mage who sided with mages, he felt it was the only way to tone down the damage Anders made to the already bad image people had of mages.

 

Plus, I feared he would turn into some kind of super demon if I let him live, and I was too mad at him. I did not stop and think too much. It was more like "YOU DID WHAT? YOU RUINED IT! DIE!". 

 

Ultimately, killing him was more of a crime of passion for my Hawke, and I think he'd regret it afterwards. Maybe. When time passed and he started to think about the whole thing again, and if there was really no chance to save Anders, he'd feel sick, for Anders and for the things he did.

 

It was the most dramatic decision a game has ever made me take. He's still my favorite character from DA2, but it took me time to come to terms with the situation and put pieces and clues together to better understand him.

 

Also, after killing him I had to kill Fenris (not feeling bad about that) and since I was so used to use both of them always in my party, I had no idea what to do, I had kind of forgotten how to fight using other people, without having any of them with me. Last part of the game was a blur, pure chaos, and somehow that made sense in the context of the game. I'm not a fan of DA2 but I admit Act 3 made me feel lots of feelings XD I probably yelled at the screen a couple of times for a variety of reasons.

 

Would I kill him again? Hmmm. Not sure. Killing him is reasonable and understandable. But I think he'll live next time I play.

[DollyLlama]

If you want to be a bit historically lore friendly, having Anders executed makes sense. In real life, a guy blowing up a place of peace and worship would be unthinkable. Given that the game is inspired by medieval history, I'm pretty sure they'd call for Anders' head in such a setting. Thus, killing him isn't unthinkable. Game wise, if you want Starkhaven on your side with a Rival Sebastian, kill the dude. If you want to add drama, let him live.

 

I think it's down to what kind of story do you want? Great writers torture their poor characters.