822 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm not shedding any tears for straight males because the world was and is their oyster, so, please.

 

But if you play a gay male or lesbian PC then it definitely looks and feels like you got shafted this time around. When we were told straight romances were returning (along with the introduction of gay and lesbian romances), most predicted a 2/2/2 split (S/Bi/G). Then we learned we'd have 8 romances. I think most predicted 2/4/2.

 

We end up with the incredibly lopsided 4/2/2. Is it lopsided towards gay or lesbian players, no. It's lopsided -- again -- towards straight PCs. Granted, it's lopsided towards straight female PCs, which is not as common (although I bring DA2 to your attention). 

 

I am still upset about it, even a week or so later. They should have left it at 2/2/2. Cullen and Solas should not have been "added," and even if they were, one or both should have been bi. And even that would have been unfair towards lesbian PCs.

 

Who here is thrilled to have four straight romances in this game? I'm sure straight Dragon Age fans around the world lifted their arms up in jubilation and cried, FINALLY! Representation we've always lacked! Um, no.

 

So BioWare have decided for whatever reason to abandon the "all bi" romance option. Fine, it's not what I personally prefer, but I understand their decision, so long as it is a decision that was made to provide greater representation for gay and lesbian players.

 

But bringing in straight and gay love interests and then making the majority of love interest straight is just not the right way to go. 

 

EDIT: I remember before the final love interest was revealed, people were saying things like, "Maybe Vivienne will be a lesbian romance!" or "Perhaps Blackwall will be gay!" And almost always someone would be quick to say, that would be amazing, but I doubt BioWare would do that for us. And usually the person saying that was gay, lesbian, or bi. 

 

To me, that is just sad. Because BioWare proved those poor souls right. No, BioWare will not do that for you. 

[MACharlie1]

 

A company like Bioware, which supposedly says and prides itself on diversity and representation does not seem to be very representative or very diverse in the straight male love interest race department. 

 

See Mass Effect 3....

[Zjarcal]

A company like Bioware, which supposedly says and prides itself on diversity and representation does not seem to be very representative or very diverse in the straight male love interest race department.

 

If you're going to analyze Bioware as a whole then maybe you should include the ME series in your analysis.
 

Additionally, the responses from most of the posters on this thread which mostly were shaming, dismissal and mockery is rather telling and descriptive of their true nature and stance. Most of them would happily say that they are for diversity and representation yet their words seem to be in contradiction.

Oh jolly, you're a mind reader that knows the true stance of a person from one (potentially sarcastic) forum post, congratz to you!
 

Cheers. 

This suits Derek Hollan better.

[Zjarcal]

We end up with the incredibly lopsided 4/2/2. Is it lopsided towards gay or lesbian players, no. It's lopsided -- again -- towards straight PCs. Granted, it's lopsided towards straight female PCs, which is not as common (although I bring DA2 to your attention).

If it's lopsided towards anyone it's towards bisexual PCs.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Most of the time, I'm not even playing my own gender/sexuality combo, so I can't really relate to being emotionally invested in the sexual orientation of NPCs.

[Zjarcal]

Most of the time, I'm not even playing my own gender/sexuality combo, so I can't really relate to being emotionally invested in the sexual orientation of NPCs.

YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE THINKING ABOUT SEX, PERVO BABY!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN BE THINKING ABOUT SEX, PERVO BABY!

 

With a beer that size, I can't think clearly about anything, anyway!

[pengwin21]

Yeah, let me be really clear:  I do not agree with the straight males who are claiming that they are somehow being "underrepresented" or "lacking options" or "losing options" or other such (imo) nonsense.  Straight males are getting two options, same as everyone else who is not a straight female (and if I want to split hairs, straight elven and human females, specifically) and same as in the other two DA games prior. 

 

However, that being said, there is legitimacy to a straight guy who wants to see a wider variety within their options.  I support that because, as has been pointed out, 5 out of 6 of their options in DA have been human women.  It would be nice for them to get a wider variety of racial options.

 

 

Yeah I can see that. I would probably be more sympathetic if it were not framed in terms of straight male romances but in terms of companions(and advisors) overall. There haven't been any female qunari companions and the one female dwarf was in the expansion without romances. 

[Eri]

 

We end up with the incredibly lopsided 4/2/2. Is it lopsided towards gay or lesbian players, no. It's lopsided -- again -- towards straight PCs. Granted, it's lopsided towards straight female PCs, which is not as common (although I bring DA2 to your attention). 

Sebastian was not a full romance; no character were you get shafted by a Vow of Celibacy and are rewarded with a chaste kiss as the pinnacle of a long and sexless marriage can be considered a romance anyway. If anything it was just plain cruel (especially with a voice that was made for voice porn and all).

 

EDIT to say: My apologies for my bad memory - there was no kiss in the Sebastian 'romance', just a little bit of flirting followed by a marriage with no romantic contact whatsoever. Knowing my Hawke's personality and the fact that she wouldn't stop attempting to seduce him (which would have been entertaining to watch), they probably wouldn't even have that marriage for very long.

 

 

Who here is thrilled to have four straight romances in this game? I'm sure straight Dragon Age fans around the world lifted their arms up in jubilation and cried, FINALLY! Representation we've always lacked! Um, no.

Um, yes. Straight females most certainly think so, and they have every right to. What has happened is indeed unfair to gay and lesbian players and I personally wouldn't have minded if the options we get were shared with them, but don't pretend like due representation isn't happening in some regard just because it's not what you want.

 

 

To me, that is just sad. Because BioWare proved those poor souls right. No, BioWare will not do that for you.

Look, I get that you're upset about it, as you have every right to (and to vent about it), but insulting Bioware isn't the way to go with this. You may not like the decision, but Bioware clearly had a reason for it, and none of us are in a position to know that reason as yet.

 

That does not mean that you won't get what you want in future games. DAI isn't the last game Bioware will ever make, and the fact that they did cater towards one group that was underrepresented in the past is still a step forward. I'm pretty sure all of the upset - particularly from the gay and lesbian players - is duly noted by them. Let's allow them the benefit of the doubt and hope that future games will bring the equality we all hope for.

[Boudicae]

I'm not shedding any tears for straight males because the world was and is their oyster, so, please.

 

But if you play a gay male or lesbian PC then it definitely looks and feels like you got shafted this time around. When we were told straight romances were returning (along with the introduction of gay and lesbian romances), most predicted a 2/2/2 split (S/Bi/G). Then we learned we'd have 8 romances. I think most predicted 2/4/2.

 

We end up with the incredibly lopsided 4/2/2. Is it lopsided towards gay or lesbian players, no. It's lopsided -- again -- towards straight PCs. Granted, it's lopsided towards straight female PCs, which is not as common (although I bring DA2 to your attention). 

 

I am still upset about it, even a week or so later. They should have left it at 2/2/2. Cullen and Solas should not have been "added," and even if they were, one or both should have been bi. And even that would have been unfair towards lesbian PCs.

 

Who here is thrilled to have four straight romances in this game? I'm sure straight Dragon Age fans around the world lifted their arms up in jubilation and cried, FINALLY! Representation we've always lacked! Um, no.

 

So BioWare have decided for whatever reason to abandon the "all bi" romance option. Fine, it's not what I personally prefer, but I understand their decision, so long as it is a decision that was made to provide greater representation for gay and lesbian players.

 

But bringing in straight and gay love interests and then making the majority of love interest straight is just not the right way to go. 

 

EDIT: I remember before the final love interest was revealed, people were saying things like, "Maybe Vivienne will be a lesbian romance!" or "Perhaps Blackwall will be gay!" And almost always someone would be quick to say, that would be amazing, but I doubt BioWare would do that for us. And usually the person saying that was gay, lesbian, or bi. 

 

To me, that is just sad. Because BioWare proved those poor souls right. No, BioWare will not do that for you. 

 

I'm sorry, I know you were really disappointed that the LIs you were interested in did not turn out to be compatable with your preferred playstyle. I really am, I know it's upsetting when you have your heart set on someone and they don't turn out to be available to you. But what I keep getting from your posts is: "I was fine when it was 2/2/2, because even if I didn't like the LIs available to me, at least it was fair. However, since they added extra content which doesn't appeal to me, I am now no longer satisfied because someone is getting more than me." I know you're trying to express your disappointment and explain what you would have liked to see in a LI, I just think that statements like "They shouldn't have added Cullen and Solas at all" could be left out, as it is not very charitable towards fans of those characters.

[jtav]

I've narrowed down my choices to Blackwall, Cass, and Josephine so the extras don't relly move me, but "the distribution isn't even, so romances should be cut" really bugs me.

[Tamyn]

Sebastian was not a full romance; no character were you get shafted for a Vow of Celibacy and are rewarded with a chaste kiss as the pinnacle of a long and sexless marriage can be considered a romance. If anything it was just plain cruel (especially with a voice that was made for voice porn and all).

 

I have played both sides of Sebastian's romance and I have never seen a kiss. He doesn't kiss you or even hug you ever unless something is very wrong with my version of the game.

[aTigerslunch]

This made me think of this:

 

 

Yep, this is what I was referring. 

[Ryzaki]

I have played both sides of Sebastian's romance and I have never seen a kiss. He doesn't kiss you or even hug you ever unless something is very wrong with my version of the game.

 

Damn you don't even get a kiss?

 

Jesus.

 

Doesn't every other LI kiss you at the mage/templar conclusion? Fen has his pounce. Anders gives you that goodbye kiss if Rival, Isabela kisses you pretty sure Merrill does too I don't see why he wouldn't.

[ItsAMeCaio]

So... how many more pages till this gets locked?

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm sorry, I know you were really disappointed that the LIs you were interested in did not turn out to be compatable with your preferred playstyle. I really am, I know it's upsetting when you have your heart set on someone and they don't turn out to be available to you. But what I keep getting from your posts is: "I was fine when it was 2/2/2, because even if I didn't like the LIs available to me, at least it was fair. However, since they added extra content which doesn't appeal to me, I am now no longer satisfied because someone is getting more than me." I know you're trying to express your disappointment and explain what you would have liked to see in a LI, I just think that statements like "They shouldn't have added Cullen and Solas at all" could be left out, as it is not very charitable towards fans of those characters.

Thanks for your kindness and understanding I've been trying to keep my anger and depression on Tumblr and probably shouldn't have returned to the BSN as soon as I did.

The thing is, I am a fan of those characters! God I've been a Cullen thread member since 2012 ^^ is it fair that some fans get him and others don't? Well, if the overall distribution of romances were fair, I could grudgingly say yes. And in fact I did come to peace with that fact when news of his being straight was released. I waited eagerly for the remaining two love interests to be revealed. Believe me, had they revealed bi Vivienne and bi Solas, I would not be here complaining so much... Even though I was not particularly interested in romancing either of those characters (though I was coming around to the thought of Solas).

[Super Drone]

So... how many more pages till this get locked?

 

2 to 3.

[Geth Supremacy]

I'm not shedding any tears for straight males because the world was and is their oyster, so, please. Good you shouldn't especially over a video game.  Nobody asked for sympathy that I know of.  If you don't like straight males or have a problem with them then thats fine...you can just stay it straight up

 

But if you play a gay male or lesbian PC then it definitely looks and feels like you got shafted this time around. When we were told straight romances were returning (along with the introduction of gay and lesbian romances), most predicted a 2/2/2 split (S/Bi/G). Then we learned we'd have 8 romances. I think most predicted 2/4/2. It makes no difference what people "predit"

 

We end up with the incredibly lopsided 4/2/2. Is it lopsided towards gay or lesbian players, no. It's lopsided -- again -- towards straight PCs. Granted, it's lopsided towards straight female PCs, which is not as common (although I bring DA2 to your attention). Doesn't matter if its common or not or how they are split.  It's Biowares game...they will make it how they see fit.  The chances are incredibly high that you will never get a game the exact way you want it until you make it.  Perks of the job.

 

I am still upset about it, even a week or so later. They should have left it at 2/2/2. Cullen and Solas should not have been "added," and even if they were, one or both should have been bi. And even that would have been unfair towards lesbian PCs.  Why are you upset?  Who are you to get mad at how they want to tell their story and make their game?  They obviously want to have everyone represented....guess thats not enough.

 

Who here is thrilled to have four straight romances in this game? I'm sure straight Dragon Age fans around the world lifted their arms up in jubilation and cried, FINALLY! Representation we've always lacked! Um, no. I'm not particularly interested in any of the characters in a romancing way.  I won't be romancing anyone unless I get something out of it in game.  I will however be playing the game and enjoying it...especially the MP.

 

So BioWare have decided for whatever reason to abandon the "all bi" romance option. Fine, it's not what I personally prefer, but I understand their decision, so long as it is a decision that was made to provide greater representation for gay and lesbian players. This isn't to push some agenda or make people feel warm and fuzzy.  It's a video game from a developer in the video game industry that is made for the sole reason of making PROFIT $$$$  Nothing more nothing less.  It's peoples way of making a living and putting food on their tables...a business.  And thats even before you add in EA....we all know what EA is like.  It's NOTHING about people or social things or anything else.  Only money.

 

But bringing in straight and gay love interests and then making the majority of love interest straight is just not the right way to go. Their game their decision.

 

EDIT: I remember before the final love interest was revealed, people were saying things like, "Maybe Vivienne will be a lesbian romance!" or "Perhaps Blackwall will be gay!" And almost always someone would be quick to say, that would be amazing, but I doubt BioWare would do that for us. And usually the person saying that was gay, lesbian, or bi. 

 

To me, that is just sad. Because BioWare proved those poor souls right. No, BioWare will not do that for you.   Nope, they didn't

[daveliam]

 

So BioWare have decided for whatever reason to abandon the "all bi" romance option. Fine, it's not what I personally prefer, but I understand their decision, so long as it is a decision that was made to provide greater representation for gay and lesbian players. This isn't to push some agenda or make people feel warm and fuzzy.  It's a video game from a developer in the video game industry that is made for the sole reason of making PROFIT $$$$  Nothing more nothing less.  It's peoples way of making a living and putting food on their tables...a business.  And thats even before you add in EA....we all know what EA is like.  It's NOTHING about people or social things or anything else.  Only money.

 

 

 

This is an overly simplistic and, frankly, naive way to look at it.  Yes, the "bottom line" plays a large roll in the process, but the video game industry (like cinema, theater, etc) is far more complicated and nuanced than a simple capitalistic corporate-model outlook.  I would suspect that the majority of the devs would agree that its not about "only money".

[pengwin21]

Damn you don't even get a kiss?

 

Jesus.

 

Doesn't every other LI kiss you at the mage/templar conclusion? Fen has his pounce. Anders gives you that goodbye kiss if Rival, Isabela kisses you pretty sure Merrill does too I don't see why he wouldn't.

 

Sebastian says something to the effect of 'sorry things didn't work out, if things were different..." out of nowhere really. And Varric doesn't mention him in the epilogue. There are good reasons besides the chaste thing not to count him as a romance.

[Geth Supremacy]

This is an overly simplistic and, frankly, naive way to look at it.  Yes, the "bottom line" plays a large roll in the process, but the video game industry (like cinema, theater, etc) is far more complicated and nuanced than a simple capitalistic corporate-model outlook.  I would suspect that the majority of the devs would agree that its not about "only money".

Do a lot of them care about their fans and how it is received?  I'm sure they do.  Do they take pride in people approving and liking their work? I'm sure. And all the other things that come with that.  And sure things can be done to drag in more people and make more people happy (which goes back to profit) It's also not so much how the devs themselves see it. 

 

But it is not more complicated and nuanced than profit margin.  The minute the game stops becoming profitable it will be canned.  When the developer comes to the point that their profit margins are not up to par or they are losing money...they will be shut down.  You can be sure of that.  In many industries...especially gaming there are many occurrences of this.

 

Nothing else matters at the end of the day than if money is being made.  If it is not then games are not being made.  Of that you can be sure.  Because it is quite literally about profit and money and nothing else when it comes down to it. 

 

I watched it happen from start to finish with Zipper interactive.  I used to be one of the biggest SOCOM fans there were....until they spit in our face and people stopped buying their games.  Which ended in SONY shutting them down.

[AutumnWitch]

Hey, lets all be thankful that BW put in as much work as they have and we ALL have choices. Most companies do NOT put this much effort in.

[daveliam]

Do a lot of them care about their fans and how it is received?  I'm sure they do.  Do they take pride in people approving and liking their work? I'm sure. And all the other things that come with that.  And sure things can be done to drag in more people and make more people happy (which goes back to profit)

 

But it is not more complicated and nuanced than profit margin.  The minute the game stops becoming profitable it will be canned.  When the developer comes to the point that their profit margins are not up to par or they are losing money...they will be shut down.  You can be sure of that.  In many industries...especially gaming there are many occurrences of this.

 

Nothing else matters at the end of the day than if money is being made.  If it is not then games are not being made.  Of that you can be sure.  Because it is quite literally about profit and money and nothing else when it comes down to it. 

 

I watched it happen from start to finish with Zipper interactive.  I used to be one of the biggest SOCOM fans there were....until they spit in our face and people stopped buying their games.  Which ending in SONY shutting them down.

 

"Making money" is not a binary.  This is why your comparison is inadequate. 

[CuriousArtemis]

This is an overly simplistic and, frankly, naive way to look at it.  Yes, the "bottom line" plays a large roll in the process, but the video game industry (like cinema, theater, etc) is far more complicated and nuanced than a simple capitalistic corporate-model outlook.  I would suspect that the majority of the devs would agree that its not about "only money".

 

Agreed; just watch Mr. Gaider's "Sex in Video Games" talk and it will become obvious that it is so NOT all about the money, especially for the writers, artists, and other creative people on the team. Yes, an artist has to put food on the table, but that does not mean s/he must create solely for profit, what an insult to the team!!

[RobRam10]

Hey, lets all be thankful that BW put in as much work as they have and we ALL have choices. Most companies do NOT put this much effort in.