They're not "properly trained," but they're still proven to be elite fighters already. Brosca won a proving, defeating the some of the best warriors in Orzammar, and then broke out of the Carta's jail and carved a bloody path through its leader. Tabris killed the entire guard in the castle of the Arl of Denerim.
And it's mentioned that Tabris was trained by their mother, who was apparently a cunning rogue.
Every Grey Warden is a bad-ass? Um... Anders? Let's not get too carried away with putting the Grey Wardens on Pillars. They may be a great organization as a whole but it is still filled with individuals of varying degrees. We also have never seen or heard much about the 'leaders' of the Grey Wardens in far off Weisssupt. The events in Awakening (Grey Wardens owning territory and titles) seems to violate the previous Grey Warden oaths and was seemingly approved by those Grey Warden leaders. I get the serious impression that there is deep corruption in the Grey Warden leadership.
Dude, I said the Joining depends on badassery, not sanity. I can't see how anyone could deny Ander's fighting abilities or mental strength, if not his stability.
Also, The Grey Wardens aren't the Night's Watch. They swore themselves to the Chantry at the end of the Second Blight (which we don't know the terms of), but there are no other oaths. In general, they try not to interfere with politics, as they don't want to deal with bad blood and old grudges when a Blight starts. But that is only a guideline, at best.
Has there been anything to suggest that the joining depends on your fighting prowess? I thought it was more of random chance.
No, man, it depends on your strength, mental and physical. Duncan, Alistair, Riordan, and Seneschal Varel all tell you that, plus Stroud and your sibling in DA2. It's not a roll of the dice, you are either badass enough to master the taint, or the taint masters you. It only seems random because the Wardens don't know what exactly the threshold is, and can't say for certain whether a person will meet it.
I'm fairly sure the Red Templars have that covered.
I'd agree with you if wasn't already shown that you can just fight regular templars if you choose to, I don't actually get why the red templars exist when this is in place.
The Wardens are trouble. They're super soldiers with no enemy.
I would never let Wardens into my country. I know they're going to come running anyway when the Blight comes - since they can't control the urge. SO, until then - they can stay the hell out.
I find it suspicious that Wardens don't actually spend all their time cleaning out the Deep Roads. What ELSE should you be doing than killing Darkspawn... that IS your function.
Their dangerous philosophy leaves people at risk (and I won't even fly into another rage about what they did in the Fourth Blight) in the name of their cause.
After two more Blights - I hope the people of Thedas force the Wardens underground to finish off the remaining Darkspawn as they - and their group - are no longer needed.
Dude, I said the Joining depends on badassery, not sanity. I can't see how anyone could deny Ander's fighting abilities or mental strength, if not his stability.
Also, The Grey Wardens aren't the Night's Watch. They swore themselves to the Chantry at the end of the Second Blight (which we don't know the terms of), but there are no other oaths. In general, they try not to interfere with politics, as they don't want to deal with bad blood and old grudges when a Blight starts. But that is only a guideline, at best.
No, man, it depends on your strength, mental and physical. Duncan, Alistair, Riordan, and Seneschal Varel all tell you that, plus Stroud and your sibling in DA2. It's not a roll of the dice, you are either badass enough to master the taint, or the taint masters you. It only seems random because the Wardens don't know what exactly the threshold is, and can't say for certain whether a person will meet it.
The Grey Wardens wouldn't make a dent if they went underground to fight the Darkspawn. Not unless they had a lot of military backing that's in it for the long haul.
Aren't the Wardens in many ways similar to the Night's Watch from Game of Thrones? Some are quite bad ass, but in sum they are a rag tag band of people with very different skills.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Quite right. But are they really an elite force, though? The only thing really special about them is that they can sense darkspawn and are immune to the taint.
Wardens only recruit the best of the best. And of those best of the best only true badasses survive the Joining Ritual. These aren't your average infantrymen we're talking about.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Every Grey Warden is a bad-ass? Um... Anders? Let's not get too carried away with putting the Grey Wardens on Pillars. They may be a great organization as a whole but it is still filled with individuals of varying degrees. We also have never seen or heard much about the 'leaders' of the Grey Wardens in far off Weisssupt. The events in Awakening (Grey Wardens owning territory and titles) seems to violate the previous Grey Warden oaths and was seemingly approved by those Grey Warden leaders. I get the serious impression that there is deep corruption in the Grey Warden leadership.
A Jr. Enchanter escaping from Kinolch Hold (which is in the middle of a lake) and evading templars trained specifically to track him down seven times is badass in my book. If Anders wasn't a Mage he'd be one hell of a Rogue that's for sure.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Has there been anything to suggest that the joining depends on your fighting prowess? I thought it was more of random chance.
Not random chance or fighting prowess. Individual willpower. It takes a lot of balls to exert your will over the constant Calling of two Dragon gods.
The Grey Wardens wouldn't make a dent if they went underground to fight the Darkspawn. Not unless they had a lot of military backing that's in it for the long haul.
They don't make dents when they go alone each couple of years when their calling comes. However i think they could make a good difference when they go in there organised and prepared.
Working together with the dwarves maybe to reclaim thaigs and secure sections of the deep roads. You can easily see that the legion of the dead manages to do just fine fighting the darkspawn and they are not even immune to the taint.
Wardens only recruit the best of the best. And of those best of the best only true badasses survive the Joining Ritual. These aren't your average infantrymen we're talking about.
Surviving the Joining may be biological compatability / immunity or luck more then personal lethality.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Surviving the Joining may be biological compatability / immunity or luck more then personal lethality.
Not random chance or fighting prowess. Individual willpower. It takes a lot of balls to exert your will over the constant Calling of two Dragon gods.
I thought I was the only one who got pissed off they constantly used Worf as a punch bag. Especially in Season 1 where the choreography is worse than an elementary school play.
They said that choosing to go after the wardens is optional. Moreover, they said that if we go after them, it'll deprive us of a lot of resources that could be used later on in the game. I assume that means the wardens thrash us around a lot before we win, which makes sense given their elite status. Those wardens you potentially fight in Legacy are a lot tougher than standard human foes and imagine a whole army of them in a defensible position.
They don't make dents when they go alone each couple of years when their calling comes. However i think they could make a good difference when they go in there organised and prepared.
Working together with the dwarves maybe to reclaim thaigs and secure sections of the deep roads. You can easily see that the legion of the dead manages to do just fine fighting the darkspawn a nd they are not even immune to the taint.
The legion of the dead doesn't do fine at all. They die. All the time. That's why it's called the legion of the dead and not the legion of victory. Their track record so far is not very impressive.
-Lost the dead trenches to Darkspawn. check
-Losing an entire regiment against Orlesians. check
-Losing yet another regiment (minus Sigrun, whose a*s you have to save) in Kal Hirol. check
-Getting themselves stuck in Corypheus prison and dying. check.
The only time not every one of them dies is that one time in the dead trenches during DAO.
The Wardens are trouble. They're super soldiers with no enemy.
I would never let Wardens into my country. I know they're going to come running anyway when the Blight comes - since they can't control the urge. SO, until then - they can stay the hell out.
I find it suspicious that Wardens don't actually spend all their time cleaning out the Deep Roads. What ELSE should you be doing than killing Darkspawn... that IS your function.
Their dangerous philosophy leaves people at risk (and I won't even fly into another rage about what they did in the Fourth Blight) in the name of their cause.
After two more Blights - I hope the people of Thedas force the Wardens underground to finish off the remaining Darkspawn as they - and their group - are no longer needed.
That just means when Razikale comes, you are the one country that will definitely not survive. Unless the Blight starts on the other side of Thedas and doesn't get to you, but that would only be because the valiant Grey Wardens put it down in time.
And the Grey Wardens routinely send expeditions into the Deep Roads. There's way too many for them to kill, but they do try to close off passages and hamstring them in general.
And I don't know what you mean about their actions in the Fourth Blight.
There's a difference between "fortitude" strength and "powerful" strength. If I can endure all sorts of mental and physical barrages, that doesn't say squat about my ability to fight, because fighting is about more than just enduring.
Fortitude doesn't stop a sword from cleaving my skull, or an arrow from piercing my heart. And fortitude isn't related to muscles or a certain amount of magical power.
To be a good fighter, I need to understand something about fighting, and I need to be reasonably powerful (whether by muscles or magic). Surviving the Joining doesn't guarantee that, unless the Taint is slowed by sheer muscle mass.
I don't really know what you mean. Fortitude strength=powerful strength. Enduring mental and physical barrages is a massive part of being able to fight, especially in Thedas.
Fortitude allows you to wear heavy armor for extended periods of time, and also helps you dodge quickly, which assists greatly when it comes to skull-cleaving and heart piercing. Fortitude is only related to muscles/conditioning. Are we talking about the ingame stat here?
The understanding about fighting can come later. If you are already quick, strong, brave, and perceptive, then you will be better than a person with training and none of those things. It's very likely sheer muscle mass slows down the Taint, in that big, healthy people have much stronger immune systems. It's not only that, you also have to be mentally stubborn enough to resist the Archdemon's call, but it's still a big part.
To the OP:
We already have abomination - trashmobs and your party of 4 slaying desire and pride demons left and right althought even one abomination is lorewise a serious threat and a Desire/pride demon can (and does) wipe out an entire village without much trouble. Weak Wardens would be a trivial offence in comparison to these already existing, much more glaring lore/gameplay inconsistencies.
I don't see why the wardens should deserve a better gameplay treatment.
Let's remember the player character is Specialtm As someone else said, lore-wise Demons and Abominations, epsecially Pride and Desire ones, are extremely powerful forces unstoppable by anything but a group of trained Templars or elite fighters. Both the Warden and Hawke dispatch them en masse with relative ease. Hell, for the Warden's party by the endgame even a pack of Ogres is barely a speedbump, you know, the thing that almost soloed both King Cailan and Duncan?
That said, I do think fighting Wardens should be harder than tangling with bandits or Red Templars. They should at least be lieutenant-level to a man.
We're still not sure if we have to fight Wardens, however. I trust Bioware to not pull a DA2 and actually let our choices have consequences on that front this time around.
I doubt they are going to make all the Grey Wardens into mini-bosses which is what it seems to be what you are asking for.
Now that would be something truly amusing. You storm their fort and all of them are elite enemies. Imagine the picture below but now filled with enemies simply named "Grey Warden" with orange font.
Now that would be something truly amusing. You storm their fort and all of them are elite enemies. Imagine the picture below but now filled with enemies simply named "Grey Warden" with orange font.
I wouldn't mind that at all. Make it an optional bonus fight, like say you have the option to just bombard the castle or wherever the Grey Wardens are with your siege engines (one trailer showed a Grey Warden fortress under siege by the Inquisition after all), or going in to do the deed yourself.
If you opt for the former, you clear the quest, but if you chose the latter and win, the Inquisition gets more power (defeating the Grey Wardens in direct combat instead of just bombarding them into nothing is an impressive thing to boast about after all) and you get awesome loot the bombardment would have destroyed.
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