125 réponses à ce sujet

[Palidane]

Real world example: I have a lot of retired farmers in my family. They can take a beating, they heal quickly from illness, broken bones, or other injuries. They're not bothered by pain. They have the kind of strength (fortitude/endurance) it would take to survive the Joining.

Would they be good at swordfighting? Absolutely not! Even if they had training, they lack the grace and agility needed for that (that's why broken bones happen so frequently...). Fortitude is completely orthogonal to someone's potential skill in combat.

Ironically, given the thread title, I think this is a case of the Sapir-Worf Hypothesis in action. Since English uses "strength" to describe several different concepts, they get conflated in our minds. Fortitude/endurance is very different from combat power, but both are considered synonyms for the word "strength".

Oh, I see what you mean! Yes, I think we are being very broad with the word "strength" here.

 

Everything about the Joining is vague and indefinite. We know it takes mental "strength" and physical "strength" to survive it. I've always assumed that a person who gets sick every day, is allergic to everything, and is 100 pounds overweight is going to get eaten for breakfast by the physical poison he's drinking. Similarly, a person like Ser Jory who is physically strong and capable but cowardly and feeble minded would probably be ravaged by the Archdemon's call. I think willpower is probably more important, as we've seen lots of Grey Warden mages who aren't exactly benching Qunari or fast as lightning, but I still think it's a factor nonetheless.

[Heimdall]

Honestly, I always thought that surviving the Joining was simply a matter of random chance.

[Osena109]

The wardens are like Green berets rangers and seal team six all rolled up in to one don't let us stomp on them 

[Frogtoad51]

The wardens are like Green berets rangers and seal team six all rolled up in to one don't let us stomp on them

Yes.

[TommyGunz0482]

But the fact still remains that there is nothing inharently super about the wardens themselves they may have strong wills and better than average natural abilities but as a Soldier I know that the only thing that separates Special forces from the rest of us is training and equipment as I was told by a member of the SF that I trained with they are better not because they are different but because they take the time to perfect the same basic skills that all Soldiers already have. So with the same logic applied Wardens wouldn't naturally be any better than most skilled Soldiers but a seasoned Warden with perfected skills would be

[Osena109]

But the fact still remains that there is nothing inharently super about the wardens themselves they may have strong wills and better than average natural abilities but as a Soldier I know that the only thing that separates Special forces from the rest of us is training and equipment as I was told by a member of the SF that I trained with they are better not because they are different but because they take the time to perfect the same basic skills that all Soldiers already have. So with the same logic applied Wardens wouldn't naturally be any better than most skilled Soldiers but a seasoned Warden with perfected skills would be

Never wanted to be SF my self i was happy being Airborn i did how ever want to be ranger never got  in but those are the breaks

[lyin321]

...I can't see how you think surviving the joining is due to pure physical (or mental - althought that is more believabe) superiority. And the game (the expensinon of DAO) show this with the female soldier that was with us at the begining. And I assume she was stronger than Loghain for example...or us when we joined:) Yet she died...

 And yes most of them should be stronger than mere bandits and maybe a little better than a veteran soldier, they (with exceptions ofcorse) don't start that way. They would be because of the experience from battling darkspawn and surviving. From the lessons their fellow Wardens will give them. But definetely not because they start as some 'badasses'. Ser Jory is arguably strong (after all Duncan migh have missed that he was more or less a coward) . But what about the cuttpurse - Devin I think? I don't doubt that Duncan saw something more in him as, we don't see beggars or people that probably haven't hold a sword in their life, but calling the thief strong?

....oh and he died too:)

 

  And finally....whether we suffer so much casualties or not should be all about the limitations we place on ourselves no? For example do we consider mages as the chantry does? Do we allow them to learn and use 'forbidden' arts? Maybe even how good our spy network is at this point...

 

 

 As for when we meet them with our main party....let few of them be a thread to us, but definetely not all to be Revenant equivalent.

[wicked cool]

So its hinted there is a downside to attacking the wardens so there must be an upside. Also assuming mabari will be with wardens. Curious to see how this potential battle affects companions

[sangy]

I like the Grey Wardens too.  I would have been completely fine with DA being a Grey Warden role each installment and even the same exact warden, but to say they're all highly skilled and more capable than most, that doesn't even follow Dragon Age history.  A very good example is the recruit at Ostagar, Jory, that was afraid the whole time there.  Alistair, didn't really show himself to be a warrior.  Honestly I think the bravest of crew in DA:O was Morrigan and Leliana. 

 

I also agree that I don't think being Inquisitor automatically makes one a highly skilled warrior.  It's more a role of importance and responsibility.  Hopefully all will be well balanced.  I haven't read the books or gotten heavy into the Dragon Age lore, but I had no idea about the Inquisition having conflict with the Grey Warden order.  That would be interesting to see.  I really hope if that's an option, that it's optional.  I'm pretty fond of the wardens.  At a time like this where people tend to help one another, you'd think they'd join up.  It's not politics, it's the world being torn apart, which I think should constitute the wardens to take action.

 

As for the battle at the warden stronghold, where they held off against the soldiers of King Arlund, well they were in a well fortified location.  That and the fact the mage warden, Avernus, was up to no good is what kept things at bay for a while  It wasn't the highly skilled wardens fighting off hundreds of other soldiers. 

 

One volunteering to become a warden doesn't make them skilled in the art of battle, it just means they've got guts.  If they pass the joining, they have the ability to sense darkspawn and kill the arch demon.  Though, I'm sure somewhere along the lines they train to learn to fight more effectively.. 

[MissMayhem96]

I'm sure Blackwall's influence with the Grey Wardens can provide some GW troops for the Inquisition.

[Wulfram]

 The joining isn't the important part, it's the pickyness of the Grey Wardens before the Joining that ensures all grey wardens are exceptional warriors.  They don't just grab random soldiers, they take the champions - Jory might not be especially brave, but he won a tournament to get the honour.

 

Of course they're not necessarily better than our companions, but our companions are also exceptional.  As is shown by the hundreds of regular soldiers that get casually slaughtered by them,

[lyin321]

 Sorry Wulfram but I don't believe they take only the chamions (actually have Jory told us what tournament he was the champ of?). Duncan also reqruited a cuttpurse that tried to pickpocket him (although he must have seen some potential to be great warrior at least - didn't offer the joining from the goodness of his heart).

 

I believe its by divine appointment by the Marker, but then again i'm a Calvinist and Templar, lol 

 

 Doesn't the Maker consider mages to be cursed? Seeing as mages have better chances to survive drinking the darkspawn blood or at least I remember that to be a fact...or a strong possibility at least....if you know this to be false feel free to say or pm if you dont want to derail the topic), surviving being the act of the Maker will be funny:)

[lyin321]

 Of course I don't (or anyone really) knows what the Maker think:)

 

Sorry I guess I should have said that 'the templars think that that is what the Maker think and thus that is what the Maker think' or something (poor guy!)...in short my mistake:)

 

 As for what exactly the templars do and why they do it - I guess the Templars (however much I dislike them) are in a way victims too so I should give them a brake....tho for an army to prevent demons they sure didn't try very hard in DAO:))

...but that is not the discussion so let's return to why are the Wardens badass:)

[animedreamer]

From what we've seen in gameplay trailer, I'm quite worried that there will be Worf Effect on the Grey Warden in case we have to fight them (or forced to fight them), and even generic Inquisition's soldier can defeat the wardens easily. I know the Inquisition is supposed to be powerful by the time they openly wage war or fight the wardens, but this doesn't seem like a challenge at all.

 

Has Worf ever beaten anything? 

[Dutchess]

 Sorry Wulfram but I don't believe they take only the chamions (actually have Jory told us what tournament he was the champ of?). Duncan also reqruited a cuttpurse that tried to pickpocket him (although he must have seen some potential to be great warrior at least - didn't offer the joining from the goodness of his heart).

 

 

There was a tournament in Highever in Duncan's/the Warden's honor when Duncan visited, and Jory won the grand melee. Then Duncan recruited him. Daveth cut Duncan's purse, managed to wriggle free when Duncan grabbed him and might very well have outrun him if the garrison had not caught him. Daveth doesn't say whether he fought those men before being captured, but it seems likely, and he says he is fast with a blade. So he had finesse (which Duncan believes is important, according to Daveth) and he is skilled with a blade.

[animedreamer]

There was a tournament in Highever in Duncan's/the Warden's honor when Duncan visited, and Jory won the grand melee. Then Duncan recruited him. Daveth cut Duncan's purse, managed to wriggle free when Duncan grabbed him and might very well have outrun him if the garrison had not caught him. Daveth doesn't say whether he fought those men before being captured, but it seems likely, and he says he is fast with a blade. So he had finesse (which Duncan believes is important, according to Daveth) and he is skilled with a blade.

Not highever, Redcliff. Jory is from Redcliff, the tourny he fought in was at Castle Redcliff. 

 

Also Daveth had the right mindset when it came to dealing with the Blight, he'd do anything to end them and that's the kind of mindset many Warden's subscribe to.

[Dutchess]

Not highever, Redcliff. Jory is from Redcliff, the tourny he fought in was at Castle Redcliff. 

 

Also Daveth had the right mindset when it came to dealing with the Blight, he'd do anything to end them and that's the kind of mindset many Warden's subscribe to.

 

He originally came from Redcliffe, but moved to Highever, where the tournament was held as well.

 

 

Ser Jory is one of the Grey Warden recruits that the Warden meets at Ostagar. He comes from Redcliffe, where he served as a knight for Arl Eamon. However, after meeting his future wife in Highever, Jory asked Arl Eamon permission to leave Redcliffe. He was drafted into the Grey Wardens by Duncan after winning a tournament in Highever. His pregnant wife, Helena, waits for his return.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Jory

 

I just played through Ostagar as well.

[animedreamer]

He originally came from Redcliffe, but moved to Highever, where the tournament was held as well.

 

 

 

 

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Jory

 

I just played through Ostagar as well.

 And here i was thinking i remembered that whole backstory.

[polemists02]

For my thoughts I always thought the hard core or elite wardens were up in Anderfel. I mean you could argue ferelden should have good wardens since you trained them but based on awakening they may still be in training period.

If they lose a fort or a castle or whatever I just want a heroic last stand. I am sure other warden groups/chapters will respond. Unless it is a renegade group like red Templar.

[fhs33721]

Lmao, classist? uhg.

 

In medieval Europe war was a rich mans game. You see they were the only ones that could afford training and equipment. No one is born knowing how to fight, it is something that is taught. So it makes sense that wealthy nobles and even the children of wealthy upper class merchants would have the most skill at arms, since their parents could afford to have them trained. 

You are comparing medieval Europe to a completely fictional world that  (on the first look) resembles medieval Europe but if you look closer it is actually it's own universe with it's own rules. There are a lot of non-noble warriors throughout the whole games. There are mercenary bands, skilled criminals, random pirates that kick a*s, the crows (most of which are born poor as hell),the Dalish (Who are superb archers) and the dwarves warrior caste is completly composed of non-nobles because those get their own caste.

Medieval Europe =/= Thedas.

[Dutchess]

 And here i was thinking i remembered that whole backstory.

 

The devil is in the details.

[Han Shot First]

Honestly, I always thought that surviving the Joining was simply a matter of random chance.

 

This.

 

I think it is like playing Russian roulette, and anyone who undertakes the Joining can potentially die. Survivors aren't necessarily 'tougher' than those that died, just luckier.