183 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes you're right the trouble was that it only mattered if carver/bethany were left behind and if they became grey wardens the story justification aspect falls flat on its face. Perhaps they should have just made it so that beth/carver always go to circle/templars no matter what.

Even then, I don't see why it matters to Hawke that Carver became a Templar.

[Reaverwind]

The problem with this is what if Both Hawke siblings are mages and Bethany gets left behind? Why would Cullen only lock up Bethany and not Hawke?

 

Why indeed? Why Hawke is able to throw fireballs in the street without worrying about templars beating down the door? A lot in the game just doesn't add up.

[themikefest]

DA:O Locked companions onto you though, like Oghren in the deep roads. And I don't think you can get rid of Alistair in certain quests either. 

With Oghren I can treat him like crap and have him leave or kill him(never done that) The only way to get rid of Alistair is to agree to have Loghain become a Warden

[Lady Luminous]

With Oghren I can treat him like crap and have him leave or kill him(never done that) The only way to get rid of Alistair is to agree to have Loghain become a Warden

 

But they still have to be there for a required length of time, is my point. 

[Reaverwind]

True, and then I would have no qualms at all about modding the game to let me have two mages. Because that's what I wanted, and I think it would have worked even better in the story.
Of course. But as the player, I'll be more engaged in Hawke's world if I find it interesting, and a whiny git like Carver isn't interesting.

I wonder if BioWare assumed that we'd give Carver the benefit of the doubt because he was family. I suspect I judged him more harshly as a result, not less.

 

Eh, I didn't like either one, so I was glad to see Bethany kick the bucket in the Deep Roads. I got a good laugh out of zombie mom, too. The family story felt so forced, so fake in DA2, it just didn't do anything for me. 

[Ina]

Even then, I don't see why it matters to Hawke that Carver became a Templar.

 

I know at least in bethany's case my Hawke certainly felt  more determined to support a pro-mage cause when she was taken away. I think it's meant to give Hawke the opportunity to think about the templar vs mage conflict and see both sides of the issue. One of my Hawkes did soften to be more neutral on the mage vs templar conflict once Carver became a templar.

 

I understand that it's a lot to do with perspective. I can only speak for my own playthroughs when I say it changed something in some of my Hawkes.

[Reaverwind]

I know at least in bethany's case my Hawke certainly felt  more determined to support a pro-mage cause when she was taken away. I think it's meant to give Hawke the opportunity to think about the templar vs mage conflict and see both sides of the issue. One of my Hawkes did soften to be more neutral on the mage vs templar conflict once Carver became a templar.

 

I understand that it's a lot to do with perspective. I can only speak for my own playthroughs when I say it changed something in some of my Hawkes.

 

Except it doesn't work when Hawke loses both siblings early in the game.

[Ina]

Except it doesn't work when Hawke loses both siblings early in the game.

 

Well it worked for some of my Hawkes if they didn't become grey warden/died in deep roads. I'm only suggesting options for people to perhaps see a story related significance. I did mention it's a matter of perspective, let's not say I was making a blanket statement.

[Ryzaki]

Eh I'd gladly be able to pick Carver even on my rogue playthroughs.

 

Beth's as interesting as watching paint dry unless she becomes a warden.

[The Elder King]

Eh I'd gladly be able to pick Carver even on my rogue playthroughs.
 
Beth's as interesting as watching paint dry unless she becomes a warden.

I'd honestly like the opposite thing . Though I made her a Warden.
In all honesty, they're both not very interesting until act 1 ends, and I much prefer the Warden's path for both.

[BloodyTalon]

DA 2 made me glad I didn't have siblings growing up.

But for some reason thought Carver was more fleshed out, though Beth and Isebela in the same party was most interesting.

[Ryzaki]

I'd honestly like the opposite thing . Though I made her a Warden.
In all honesty, they're both not very interesting until act 1 ends, and I much prefer the Warden's path for both.

 

XD one mage is more than enough for me.

 

But yeah the warden's path for both of them is interesting.

[The Elder King]

XD one mage is more than enough for me.
 
But yeah the warden's path for both of them is interesting.

Yup.
I think they missed an opportunity with the Hawkes. I was really interested in the family concept. But at the end of act 3, my canon Hawke considered Varric, Aveline and Merrill his family (with Isabela as his LI).
I'm curious if I'd feel the same with some characters in DAI. While I preferred the DAO cast, I didn't have the same feeling of 'family' with any of them (I felt in ME with Tali, Garrus, Liara and Joker).

[Ryzaki]

Yup.
I think they missed an opportunity with the Hawkes. I was really interested in the family concept. But at the end of act 3, my canon Hawke considered Varric, Aveline and Merrill his family (with Isabela as his LI).
I'm curious if I'd feel the same with some characters in DAI. While I preferred the DAO cast, I didn't have the same feeling of 'family' with any of them (I felt in ME with Tali, Garrus, Liara and Joker).

 

They really dropped the ball with the whole "lol dead/ditches you for reasonz" in act 2. It'd been nice if the sibling had stayed with you throughout all three acts maybe get their own LI and so on. Actually feeling their presence more than just a few cameos in each act. (Man all that remains with a sibling with you at the time could've been amazing).

 

As long as it's not forced I'm fine with it XD

[The Elder King]

They really dropped the ball with the whole "lol dead/ditches you for reasonz" in act 2. It'd been nice if the sibling had stayed with you throughout all three acts maybe get their own LI and so on. Actually feeling their presence more than just a few cameos in each act. (Man all that remains with a sibling with you at the time could've been amazing).
 
As long as it's not forced I'm fine with it XD

Agreed on both the siblings and the forced part.

[Reaverwind]

Regardless of Bethany or Hawke himself (or her) being a mage he'd be sympathetic because of Malcolm's upbringing. Unless you have really crappy parents (which Malcolm Hawke wasn't) you'd be surprised how much you reflect their views and ideas. I figured the same would apply to Hawke despite Behtany being in the Wardens and thus peripheral to the Mage-Templar tensions in Kirkwall. 

 

Yes, and no. Hawke would certainly be more sympathetic, but I don't see that being a strong enough reason to get involved with the mage-templar issue, considering the risk to the family and the fact he wasn't a Circle mage. I feel Hawke actually had stronger motivation to distance himself.

[Ina]

Regardless of Bethany or Hawke himself (or her) being a mage he'd be sympathetic because of Malcolm's upbringing. Unless you have really crappy parents (which Malcolm Hawke wasn't) you'd be surprised how much you reflect their views and ideas. I figured the same would apply to Hawke despite Bethany being in the Wardens and thus peripheral to the Mage-Templar tensions in Kirkwall. 

 

Of course it could apply regardless and certainly did for my Hawke that I referred in that post. I just said it made my Hawke all the more determined, like before my Hawke was a bit more carefree and thought he had it all under control, he was now jolted to reality and more willing to take a serious stance to do something.

[nisallik]

Man, people are sleeping on Carver. Get him into Friendship and make him a Grey Warden. He becomes your best friend after Varric.

 

When I first played the game, I always hated Carver, so I always avoided making a mage.  Recently, I went ahead and made a mage as I never played the DLC and I ended up actually liking Carver a lot more than Bethany.  I got him to friendship status and had him join the Grey Wardens.  Watching him grow out of his obsessiveness of being in Hawke's shadow was pretty interesting.

[Dabrikishaw]

I feel the loss of a sibling in DA 2 happened too early in the game for any of us to get emotionally attached or invested to the character.

This is the whole point of the critique of how Bethany and Carver die in the Lothering prologue. The Virmire situation is brought up because it was a choice between 2 party members you had time to care about. I'm not surprised at some of the typical defenses of it, but whatever your feelings I implore other not to misconstrue the issues some people have with it.

[frankf43]

The one that really boiled my blood was the Shepherding Wolves quest.

 

I told Sister Patrice no and went on with the game. after a while nothing happened. I ended up having to go to a walkthrough website to find out how to make the game move on. When I found out I had to go back and do the quest I nearly didn't finish the game I turned it off and gave up. It was 3 weeks before I picked it up again.

 

Why have the option to say no if you really haven't got the option of saying no?

 

It really drove home the point that no matter what choices we made they had absolutely no affect on the direction  of the game.

[Ryzaki]

The one that really boiled my blood was the Shepherding Wolves quest.

 

I told Sister Patrice no and went on with the game. after a while nothing happened. I ended up having to go to a walkthrough website to find out how to make the game move on. When I found out I had to go back and do the quest I nearly didn't finish the game I turned it off and gave up. It was 3 weeks before I picked it up again.

 

Why have the option to say no if you really haven't got the option of saying no?

 

It really drove home the point that no matter what choices we made they had absolutely no affect on the direction  of the game.

 

Yeah the bolded was stupid. There was no reason for that no option when it's a but thou must situation.

[Tootles FTW]

Tsk, so much Carver hate.  I changed my entire first playthrough for that boy (in other words, I rolled a mage).  I yelled "Love me! Why won't you love meeee?!" more times at my screen for Carver than I even did for Fenris!  I loved the frustration of it all - it totally felt like an actual sibling.

 

I don't mind story-mandated decisions as long as the player isn't forced to look like a complete moron (ex: not assisting in the Kai Leng fight to save Thane in ME3, where your Shepard is shown gawking 5ft away).

[Hiemoth]

They really dropped the ball with the whole "lol dead/ditches you for reasonz" in act 2. It'd been nice if the sibling had stayed with you throughout all three acts maybe get their own LI and so on. Actually feeling their presence more than just a few cameos in each act. (Man all that remains with a sibling with you at the time could've been amazing).

 

As long as it's not forced I'm fine with it XD

 

Of the sibling had remained with Hawke after act 2, it would have been a completely different story what they wanted to tell, so I don't necessarily consider it dropping the ball, but rather wanting them to tell a different story than they did.

 

As for which sibling survived, in the first act the story they were telling required the siblings to be in different positions. One sibling had to be the one drawing the attention to the family and forcing them to act secretly while the other had to react to that situation. If Hawke isn't a mage, what was Carver supposed to do? Complain about the burden of their dead sister? If Bethany had survived and Hawke was a mage, why would Bethany feel so much guilt about being a burden on their family? Not only would such a choice require them to write completely different narratives, but it would also remove the family dynamic they had planned.