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XIII-3: Lightning Returns (Autumn 2015)

Débuté par OdanUrr , sept. 18 2014 04:26

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#76
TheChris92
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 12:14

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My perspective is the female characters are pretty cool but the male ones aren't, hence, divided opinions. Although I guess some people don't like Vanille, I guess. I think that's kinda the way Nomura rolls overall.

 

It's also just the price of being that big and successful. If some indie company somehow managed to crank out an FFX13 people would be like whoa amazing!

 

Honestly even if the gameplay were worse than it was, I would still get it. I mentioned on the JRPG thread it was probably the best game I've played in like 5 years. The Xeno series has always had really creepy Evangelion like things buried in it, although blade is tamer than the others overall.

 

The first half is kinda Skyrim-ish, which is an interesting diversion from the playing through set pieces things a lot of games have, although some of the quests are a bit tame I suppose. It's not remotely the same level of open world though, it's more like FFX12 if you played that.

 

The main gameplay system has a kind of combo system with each character having a specific move that combines with another character's attack, as well as some timed Monado specific abilities that are pretty essential to you living or dying early on, also a pretty good change since if you mess up you are boned.

 

Then there are the characters which have tank archetypes, a pure healer, and then just a dozen hybridized types. I ended up beating the final boss without any of the tanks or the healer because you can mess with the abilities enough to get interesting results. All and all, it's slightly sluggish you won't be racing through it like Mirror's Edge, but the worldbuilding and atmosphere is completely incomparable as far as most games go. The variety and intrigue in the mini-game things like the heart-to-hearts which are unlockable conversations based on character affinities (like social links or something) make up for it. Takahashi was always > Nomura IMO, although Kingdom Hearts is/has been consistently pretty fun.

 

Edit: Honestly if you don't mind Persona's gameplay you should have no problem with Xenoblade, IMO.

 

As for Type-0 I've also wanted to play that... just another victim of this arbitrary dumping of Japanese games in the last decade.

I love Persona's gameplay, it's addictive and fun, the Persona fusion makes it all the more enjoyable for the variety of set ups you can make.

As for Xenoblade -- I'm quite sure I'm gonna like that one, and I suppose my comment of cautious skepticism was more directed towards Type-0.


#77
TheChris92
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 12:30

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It's even more a bummer they only produced a short amount of copies of the game within an even shorter time limited, so given that I'm years late to the party I have to pay the price of a Ferrari to get the game now.


#78
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 03:53

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I'm not sure what you mean by your question. Calculate whose actions? Your enemy's? Your allies? And what kind of variables are you talking about? HP? Aggro?

 

Final Fantasy games typically have a fairly basic number of enemies, and these all have various resistances and weaknesses--a machine is often weak to lightning, for example (I'll leave that pun alone). You can exploit that. Different games have had different mechanics that allow "deepness" or something like it.

 

VII had the Materia system, which was basically how the magic worked (a terrible thing IMO, but that's just me--it sounds like DnD where a wizard has to carry a spell) and a few other special attacks. These Materia were placed or "socketed" into armor and weapons. This system wasn't majorly "deep," per se, but it offered a lot of grinding potential. There are a few that stick out as having pretty unique mechanics to them (Enemy Skill among them), but in and of itself it was...moderately deep.

 

VIII had the junction system, which was kind of a twist--the spells, which were on their own (like, you picked up 5 Cures, which would heal and be consumed, rather than a Materia or owning the spell permanently), could by tied to stats to give boosts. It was a neat twist, but in my opinion discouraged spell use (because all of a sudden your attack damage is going to drop 100 points when some of the spells are consumed).

 

FF XIII is a more high-level game. You're rarely controlling the spells or specific attacks, but you're controlling strategies, called Paradigms in the game. Your six possible classes are a standard physical damage dealer (Commando), a chain & stagger magical attacker (Ravager) (there's a chain of percentage damage you do, and when it reaches a certain threshold, the enemy becomes weak to certain affects like stunlock), a buff-er (Synergist), a debuff-er (Saboteur), a tank/aggro drawer with high damage resistance (Sentinel), and a healer (Medic).

 

In this game, you're focusing on creating viable combinations of the above classes (you have three characters in your party at once) that do what you want to do--debuff an enemy while attacking and raising the chain (SAB-COM-RAV), attack and raise the chain while keeping a healer handy (COM-RAV-MED), boost the chain really fast (RAV-RAV-RAV), or do a ton of damage (COM-COM-COM). There are many configurations (3^6? 6^3? Can't remember what the math would be), and you can certainly find a preferred style.

 

As for how deep it is, take a look on the previous page and tell me how deep that looks to you (that's not sarcasm, for all I know it might not be to you). But that's basically how XIII works.

 

Edit: You might find XII interesting. Its combat is basically what Dragon Age's tactics system is based on. They're called Gambits, but it's just like DA--people have certain abilities, and you can set up certain triggers so that when X happens, party member Y uses ability Z.

 

There are less available triggers (DA has stuff like AoE attacks triggered by enemies clustered for example), but XII allows you to set the "gambits" for the main character and leave it alone completely, allowing you to just watch combat play out.

 

 

Each FF game has different combat. The FF games are not sequels in the most normal sense, but simply a string of games with common themes in them.

 

In a turn based enviroment there are various actions that the player can take in a given turn. These include putting on armor, attacking the other character,attempting to flee,healing,e.t.c

 

My question are

1) How many actions can be taken on a given turn.

2)How much do stats influence the possibility of a successful action

3)How much does the environment influence the success of a given turn.


#79
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:14

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In a turn based enviroment there are various actions that the player can take in a given turn. These include putting on armor, attacking the other character,attempting to flee,healing,e.t.c

 

My question are

1) How many actions can be taken on a given turn.

2)How much do stats influence the possibility of a successful action

3)How much does the environment influence the success of a given turn.

 

From FF 1-3, the games used a pure turn combat system. You took a turn, your enemy took a turn. You got one action per turn, though some things (like, say, equipping a sword to your left hand, and one to your right hand) could cause the number of things you do to increase. But only one action.

 

They've never been open about the actual stats, but there IS some form of a dice roll because you can miss attacks, and the enemy can miss on you. Additionally, you CAN flee from battles or use things in your inventory. They count as a single action, so you can't use a potion then attack in the same turn.

 

 

From FF 4 on, they introduced a system called the ATB system. In this system, each unit on the "battlefield" (battles typically take place on a separate screen) has a bar that gradually fills up. When it's full, they can take a turn. They can only take one action per turn, as far as I recall. Same about stats--you can miss but they never display very clearly how it works.

 

I should point out that in my experience, in the ATB system YOUR attack and the enemy's are not juxtaposed. You take sort of turns in attacking, but an enemies attack can come BETWEEN your characters' attacks--so, say one of your characters attacks, another one does--and then the enemy might attack. Additionally, the ATB system is in real time. Some of the older games have an adjustment on how long it takes, but there's no way to actually prevent an enemy from continuously attacking if you're having trouble finding a particular spell.

 

 

FF 11 and 14 are MMOs, and as such I have no idea how they work, I imagine they're real-time.

 

FF 12 shook things up somewhat. It uses basically a real-time-with-pause system like western RPGs like to use nowadays. However, your attacks are still on an ATB bar--you only attack after a certain amount of time. And you only get one attack per turn.

 

As far as I know the ability to flee remained all the way up to here. You could flee in the older games, and you could flee in 12.

 

 

FF 13 took a BIT of a step away. You have the ATB bar, but it's a bit more interactive: you can fill it with attacks of certain power--like a simple attack on an enemy will cost one unit, while an AoE attack costs two. Additionally, since you can do more than one attack, you have the ability to either wait for the bar to fill up or just use the single attack (maybe for wiping out an enemy before they attack you, while waiting would get you killed). The ATB bar starts at two or three units, and can go up to six. So you have a bit more control in that sense. However, you have less control in others. You can't flee battles, and I don't know if there's a dice roll for missing an attack. There's one for HOW much damage you do, but I don't know about IF your attack connects.

 

 

Oh, and I don't think the environment has ever played a part in combat at all (unless I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think I am). There's...there's something else I wanted to say here but I've forgotten it.

 

Edit: I've remembered! In FF games, you have little control over your stats. You don't choose them as you level up, except in FF 13 (as far as I know).


#80
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:19

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Oh, and I don't think the environment has ever played a part in combat at all (unless I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think I am). There's...there's something else I wanted to say here but I've forgotten it.

Seals the deal, Fire Emblem > Final Fantasy. Emulate dat, Female Fedora Fan. Especially the GBA ones. Or buy a GBA. And then those games. Or do both.


#81
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:21

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From FF 1-3, the games used a pure turn combat system. You took a turn, your enemy took a turn. You got one action per turn, though some things (like, say, equipping a sword to your left hand, and one to your right hand) could cause the number of things you do to increase. But only one action.

 

They've never been open about the actual stats, but there IS some form of a dice roll because you can miss attacks, and the enemy can miss on you. Additionally, you CAN flee from battles or use things in your inventory. They count as a single action, so you can't use a potion then attack in the same turn.

 

 

From FF 4 on, they introduced a system called the ATB system. In this system, each unit on the "battlefield" (battles typically take place on a separate screen) has a bar that gradually fills up. When it's full, they can take a turn. They can only take one action per turn, as far as I recall. Same about stats--you can miss but they never display very clearly how it works.

 

FF 11 and 14 are MMOs, and as such I have no idea how they work, I imagine they're real-time.

 

FF 12 shook things up significantly. It uses basically a real-time-with-pause system like western RPGs like to use nowadays. However, your attacks are still on an ATB bar--you only attack after a certain amount of time. And you only get one attack per turn.

 

As far as I know the ability to flee remained all the way up to here. You could flee in the older games, and you could flee in 12.

 

 

FF 13 took a BIT of a step away. You have the ATB bar, but it's a bit more interactive: you can fill it with attacks of certain power--like a simple attack on an enemy will cost one unit, while an AoE attack costs two. The ATB bar starts at two or three units, and can go up to six. So you have a bit more control in that sense. However, you have less control in others. You can't flee battles, and I don't know if there's a dice roll for missing an attack. There's one for HOW much damage you do, but I don't know about IF your attack connects.

 

 

Oh, and I don't think the environment has ever played a part in combat at all (unless I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think I am). There's...there's something else I wanted to say here but I've forgotten it.

 

 

I see, does not seem like my type of  thing. The new one looks good though!


#82
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Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:22

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Seals the deal, Fire Emblem > Final Fantasy. Emulate dat, Female Fedora Fan. Especially the GBA ones. Or buy a GBA. And then those games. Or do both.

Emulate it!


#83
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:23

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Seals the deal, Fire Emblem > Final Fantasy. Emulate dat, Female Fedora Fan. Especially the GBA ones. Or buy a GBA. And then those games. Or do both.

 

Lol. I'm not sure that's anything huge in my experience (environment playing a part).

 

But I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future. Plenty to play now but eventually.

 

 

I see, does not seem like my type of  thing. The new one looks good though!

 

What would you say is more your type of thing? Can you give an example? Mass Effect? Fallout (original 1 or 2)?


#84
Mr.House
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:25

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Yeah I should have been clearer--"in addition to XV" meant that XV was also supposed to be like KH (but more mature, Nomura has supposedly said. Supposedly).

 

On an unrelated note, I'm curious where they're going with FF XVI. Because between LR, Type-0, and XV, they're totally action games now. But that's, as you said, something for another thread.

Nomuras claims are about as truthful as Casey Hudsons claims.


#85
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Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:31

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Fallout (original 1 or 2)?

 

 

A combat system like TOEE or even wasteland 


#86
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:36

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Nomuras claims are about as truthful as Casey Hudsons claims.

 

I don't know very many of Nomura's claims, so I wouldn't know. From what we've seen, however, it seems so--nothing bizarre like Heartless and Nobodies.

 

A combat system like TOEE or even wasteland 

 

So like a tactical RPG then. Yeah, you won't find that here at all.

 

I would highly, HIGHLY recommend a game called Hammer and Sickle. It's a Russian game, made in 2003 or something. Tactical RPG. One of the most amazing games I've played. People complain it's hard, but people are wimps sometimes. You should really try it out.


#87
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:46

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Lol. I'm not sure that's anything huge in my experience (environment playing a part).

 

But I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future. Plenty to play now but eventually.

More than that neat little feature, there's other nuances to appreciate that I won't go into detail because this isn't a Fire Emblem thread.

 

I will say this though, Dat unit permanent death is so kawaii desu. :wub:


#88
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Posté 20 septembre 2014 - 04:53

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More than that neat little feature, there's other nuances to appreciate that I won't go into detail because this isn't a Fire Emblem thread.

 

I will say this though, Dat unit permanent death is so kawaii desu. :wub:

 

Well, it sounds worth looking into at least.


#89
OdanUrr
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 04:43

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I think GMG's 25% discount applies to FFXIII on top of its 10% pre-purchase discount. If you're interested, check it out and let me know.

 

http://www.greenmang...l-fantasy-xiii/


#90
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 09:45

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I don't see a 25% discount anywhere.

#91
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:04

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*still hoping 9 will get a remastered pc port.*


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#92
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:06

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They really do need to stop porting Final Fantasies to Steam that aren't FFIX or FFVI until they've ported FFIX and FFVI to Steam.
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#93
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Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:10

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Yes.

 

 

Feel.

 

JUST FEEEEL.

 

I DEMAND FEEELS!

 


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#94
Seraphim24
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:11

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I don't mean to be a downer but I kinda just wish they'd make a proper Final Fantasy again. I'm so tired of ports and remasters at this point.

 

I guess they're not inherently bad if they don't take a lot of time, but having played practically all of them I can't help but just go, bleh. FFIX wasn't like this incomprehensible stroke of absolute genius, there's ways of spinning off on those game concepts and character themes. A road trip with 5 guys isn't really what I had in mind.

 

I don't know if Nobuo will ever do the composition again though, bummer.


#95
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Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:13

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I don't mean to be a downer but I kinda just wish they'd make a proper Final Fantasy again. I'm so tired of ports and remasters at this point.

 

I guess they're not inherently bad if they don't take a lot of time, but having played practically all of them I can't help but just go, bleh.

 

FF XV is coming out in the next year and a half or so, I'd say.

 

 

Edit: And the games they're porting are games that are easy to port, like the 3DS games or this one (which was designed with PC compatibility).


#96
Seraphim24
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:13

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Gosh, back when youtube first started up I would just watch Final Fantasy videos over and over again. I also played all the Final Fantasies practically straight through one more time, starting from the beginning... ah memories.


#97
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Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:13

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I don't mean to be a downer but I kinda just wish they'd make a proper Final Fantasy again. I'm so tired of ports and remasters at this point.

Didn't Lightning Returns come out this year?


#98
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Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:19

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Didn't Lightning Returns come out this year?

 
Yeah. I have a very strong feeling that the word "proper" was the key word in that sentence, but I decided to wait until we get a reply to argue that point (is it bad that I already have the words ready in Notepad? :P).


Edit: Though for what it's worth, LR played terribly on an Xbox 360. SO glad we'll be getting that on PC, and I'm looking forward to a stable 60 FPS.

#99
Seraphim24
Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:21

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Didn't Lightning Returns come out this year?

 

I was kind of just thinking of the earlier FF model being used again. World maps with secrets and hidden chocobos, less reliance on flashy anime cutscenes, more of a medieval/steampunk feel to the characters and settings and less of a modern japan/Sci-Fi gimmick or whatever is going on. All the early final fantasies were thoroughly charming for the most part and age significantly better than practically every other game made in that era. They started transitioning to a kind of more anime-based click and play adventure model with FFX, as well as super cute anime boyz doing anime boy things. I guess there was still fun to be had but it took away a lot of soul, something I haven't seen in them since outside of a few random moments.

 

Also I mean there didn't used to be 3 final fantasies for every Final Fantasy, just 4, 5, 6, 13-1, 13-2. 13-3.. it all reuses a lot of the same material and concepts so I'm not as excited by it overall.

 

Edit: I read somewhere a long time ago that Hiroyouki Ito, who did big parts of 6, 9, and 12, was originally doing the original XV, but who knows where that is now. If he showed up again with XVI or something that might be the last great FF.


#100
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Posté 24 septembre 2014 - 10:26

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I think you can put that (the whole world maps thing) down to a deeper focus on plot and characters and less of a focus on the open-world elements.

 

I'm not sure all those things define a "proper" Final Fantasy game, but I can understand where you're coming from.


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