81 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

As for the Deep Roads, I was actually not thinking about the 50 gold coins or even the maps - I was thinking about the one thing Hawke brings to the table no matter you play them.  Hawke's a badass.

 

("Helping people and killing people," sarcastic Hawke once says are the two things they're good at.  Violent can answer the question "What do you call it when you kill someone and take all their stuff?" with "Tuesday.")

 

Definitely so.

 

Most of the stuff Hawke gets involved in typically begin with them being asked to help by other people, precisely because of their reputation as someone that is ridiculously talented at fighting things. Heck, even the end game has Hawke comment that they don't even want to take a side, but are badgered (mostly by Meredith) until they are forced to pick one.

 

_{(If Hawke picked the Mages, congratulations Knight-Commander, you got your request!)}

 

As for the Corypheus incident, it's worth remembering that the prison had long been abandoned by the Wardens who were unable to maintain it, nor hold it from the Darkspawn now encroached inside and the seals do eventually break down (hence Malcolm needing to top them up), so it's not like Corypheus wouldn't have escaped anyway at a later date if this had gone unchecked. In this case, Hawke did was to attempt to slay a very dangerous adversary (again, because they were asked) and end the problem once and for all, rather than continue the cycle onwards until a time when the Wardens either were not around to do anything or slipped up and caused him to end up being released anyway.

 

Hawke also had no way of knowing that Corypheus survived the encounter, since they're not a Warden and this ability to body-surf has only ever been demonstrated by Archdemons before. And even then, Wardens aren't usually privy to that information unless there's an actual Blight on.

[Willowhugger]

 

I'm more focused on red lyrium, Flemeth, and Corypheus, because I think those are three aspects of Hawke's story that are going to be huge in either DAI or future games.  If his story gets boiled down to those elements, his reputation is going to suffer badly.

 

Frankly, I think those are fairly unimportant elements of Hawke's life. Your dismissal of the above is pretty out there and I disagree completely with your interpretations.

I also agree Flemeth and Corypheus would have survived/escaped anyway.

[Hydwn]

Hawke I see as, literally, their equivalent of Sam Spade given Varric seems to be writing Fereldan Detective novels/Potboilers about him.

 

Y'know, I keep thinking of DA2 and the detective novel, and the more I think of it, the more I think of that classic device the red herring.

 

A great tradition in some of the subgenres of the detective novel is to provide all the clues the reader needs to make the right deduction while keeping their attention focused on things that won't be important (but seem so at the time).  Other genres do it too - the Harry Potter books were all bit as children's fantasy mystery novels, and J.K. Rowling would plant a clue in book 2 that would be all-important in book 6, or never fail to mention an important detail whose significance would only show up later.

 

When I read the printed materials - particularly World of Thedas and Asunder - and read about DAI, I'm struck by how unimportant Meredith and the Arishok seem.  The big events of Acts 1, 2, and 3 are crucial in Hawke's eyes, because that's who you see them through.  

 

But pulling back and trying to imagine them outside of Kirkwall is underwhelming.  Certainly Hawke's rags-to-riches story in Act 1 is of no interest to people who don't know them.  The Arishok held Kirkwall for what?  Six hours?  And killed a figurehead so unimportant to the city that it continued on about its business for three years without one.  By the time the other Free Marches cities would have heard of it, it was over.

 

Even Meredith seems surprisingly unimportant.  Whatever impression Cassandra leaves in DA2, the Mage-Templar war actually doesn't start in Kirkwall.  Kirkwall just marks the place where the tensions begin to rise.  After that, another circle in annulled in Rivain.  Then the Divine is caught helping experiments in reversing tranquility.  Then the Lord Seeker tries to annul Orlais's circle, and it's only after that that mages meet to decide on rebellion, and the seekers and templars split.  It takes three years for that war to start.

 

What we do see is Templars getting addicted to red lyrium, and becoming monsters in DAI promotional materials.  We get a Morrigan in Witch Hunt warning of Flemeth's dire plans - and both Flemeth and Morrigan are in it.  And World of Thedas seems to mention Corypheus every other page, like it really wants us to remember it, for some reason  

 

I think what we were made to focus on DA2 was mostly red herring.  The real dangers are hidden around the edges, waiting to explode, like "sela petrae" and "drakestone" in a chantry

[Willowhugger]

 

What we do see is Templars getting addicted to red lyrium, and becoming monsters in DAI promotional materials.  We get a Morrigan in Witch Hunt warning of Flemeth's dire plans - and both Flemeth and Morrigan are in it.  And World of Thedas seems to mention Corypheus every other page, like it really wants us to remember it, for some reason

 

Given Corypheus is a mid boss probably at the end of "The Grey Warden arc", the Red Templars are a micro-group existing for the purposes of killing, and Flemeth is a series staple--I'm more or less sure you're wrong.

 

The World of Thedas doesn't mention more than a paragraph about the Fifth Blight either too, I might add.

:-)

[Kenshen]

It is pretty telling how Hawke and the champion will be viewed by what Cassandra shows she knows and doesn't know when interrogating Varic.  The people that were close and knew Hawke as the champion and what that title meant should favor him/her.  Then there are the scholars, kings and queens, chantry, & Antivan Crows who won't know Hawke personally who will take a more love/hate view.  I will be interested to see if Hawke is indeed still a public figure or has been in hiding.

[whanzephruseke]

Well Hawkes reputation  is honestly not that important to me because in my opinion he was just there a observer the fact is Anders was the actual main character not Hawke and there is not one thing in DA2 that wasnt Hawke related "Family and Stuff" that could have still been in DA2 without hawke and with Anders as the PC.

 

...

 

Now dont get me wrong I love my Hawkes but they really didnt need to be there in DA2 in constant spectator mode but thats not Hawkes fault no the blame rests with Bioware and DA2s writing/Choices.

 

I don't understand why people on this forum think that the main character always has to be the PC.  Paraphrasing from the Wikipedia page on "protagonist": the story of a protagonist can be told from the perspective of a different character (who may also be, but is not necessarily, the narrator).  The most important figure (the "chief actor") in DA2's story is Anders, but that doesn't mean that the player should get to decide his actions--his part in the Mage/Templar epic that Bioware is trying to tell throughout the series is too important to be left to the whims of the player.  Hawke's role is that of enabler or plot vehicle, the one who ties together all the major "actors" in the plot.

 

The role of the player avatar is to engage the player as a native element in the story, but that doesn't mean that the avatar's actions need to have any real effect on the story itself--in a "true" role playing game, it's more important what effect the story has on the avatar.  You imagine a character with dreams and motivations and biases and try to stay true to them in the choices you make in-game and the way your character reacts to the events of the story, until they begin to feel like a real person.  That's the point of RPGs: to play a role.

 

That seems something of a drastic overstatement of Anders importance. Aside from being Guy Fawkes, Anders doesn't do anything of importance. Meredith was at her breaking point anyway.

 

"There can be no peace."  Without the spectacle of Elthina's death, the holding pattern in Kirkwall would have continued ad infinitum (that is Anders's justification, anyways).  Also, Meredith loses almost all of her supporters by the end of Act 3.

 

Whatever impression Cassandra leaves in DA2, the Mage-Templar war actually doesn't start in Kirkwall.  Kirkwall just marks the place where the tensions begin to rise...  It takes three years for that war to start.

 

I disagree.  The destruction of the chantry in Kirkwall is the tipping point, the beginning of the spiral into chaos--that's why it's the climax of the second game.  As in the real world, it's not like two factions just wake up one day and decide to declare war on each other; instead, there comes a time when events have escalated to the point where all sides admit that the violent "disagreement" they've been having was really a war all along.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Hawke seems like a sort of bumbling, Inspector Clouseau-esque character who staggers into (and out of) major events through a combination of obliviousness and bad luck, leaving all manner of havoc in their wake. Hawke is not the architect of anything that takes place, but Hawke's inadvertent actions act as the catalyst of much of what happens.

[Willowhugger]

 

"There can be no peace."  Without the spectacle of Elthina's death, the holding pattern in Kirkwall would have continued ad infinitum (that is Anders's justification, anyways).  Also, Meredith loses almost all of her supporters by the end of Act 3.

Yes and that's the torch on a powder keg but it's hardly the whole of the game. The Templar-Mage War starts because of Anders actions but its Hawke who resolves the climax one way or the other.

[Hydwn]

Given Corypheus is a mid boss probably at the end of "The Grey Warden arc", the Red Templars are a micro-group existing for the purposes of killing, and Flemeth is a series staple--I'm more or less sure you're wrong.

 

The World of Thedas doesn't mention more than a paragraph about the Fifth Blight either too, I might add.

:-)

 

That was actually kind of my point - everything about Corypheus from his capture to his prison to his release are mentioned.  He even merits mention in the section on the Vimmark mountains.  He gets mentioned more often than pretty much any named character.  

 

And you and I have very different expectations about what's going to be important in DAI and beyond.  We'll have to wait and see.

[whanzephruseke]

Hawke seems like a sort of bumbling, Inspector Clouseau-esque character who staggers into (and out of) major events through a combination of obliviousness and bad luck, leaving all manner of havoc in their wake. Hawke is not the architect of anything that takes place, but Hawke's inadvertent actions act as the catalyst of much of what happens.

 

Lol.  Very true, but I see Hawke more as Ishmael to Anders's Ahab.  Or maybe Varric is Ishmael and Hawke is Queequeg...

[Darkly Tranquil]

Lol. Very true, but I see Hawke more as Ishmael to Anders's Ahab. Or maybe Varric is Ishmael and Hawke is Queequeg...

In terms of their role in the narrative, this is a very good way of putting it. I was likening Hawke to to Clouseau in that he/she never drives events, but simply muddles through them, often oblivious to the consequences. Hawke is in the narrative and plays a role in it, but doesn't drive it because he/she mostly just reacts to events already taking place; Hawke is as much a witness to events playing out as an active participant. Compare Hawke to The Warden, who has a very defined mission he/she is trying to achieve - end the Blight. Then you have Hawke, whose mission/agenda is...???

As for Anders being the driver, I agree to a certain extent due to the fact that he is a character with a far more defined agenda (the Mage issue) than Hawke, whose primary role seems to be errand boy/girl or troubleshooter. But for a lot of the game Anders just follows Hawke around and kvetches about the treatment of mages; it's only in Act 3 where Anders actually does something decisive to drive the story in a particular direction.

However, I also think that it is Kirkwall itself and it's underlying madness that is the real narrative focal point over the course of the whole game. Hawke, Anders, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Viscount Dumar, Mother Patrice, and various others all contribute to the tensions in the city and do things that move the story along, but no one action or individual can be blamed for what goes on. I think it's no co-incidence that the final quest of the game is called "The Last Straw" because that aptly describes what has built up over the years - an evolving series of only loosely connected events that has increased the political and strategic tensions to the point that the city is a powder keg just waiting for a spark to ignite it. Anders is simply the one who lights it.

[whanzephruseke]

However, I also think that it is Kirkwall itself and it's underlying madness that is the real narrative focal point over the course of the whole game. Hawke, Anders, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Viscount Dumar, Mother Patrice, and various others all contribute to the tensions in the city and do things that move the story along, but no one action or individual can be blamed for what goes on. I think it's no co-incidence that the final quest of the game is called "The Last Straw" because that aptly describes what has built up over the years - an evolving series of only loosely connected events that has increased the political and strategic tensions to the point that the city is a powder keg just waiting for a spark to ignite it. Anders is simply the one who lights it.

 

You win the internets.  Kirkwall is the main character...but Anders is still my favorite.

[Hydwn]

However, I also think that it is Kirkwall itself and it's underlying madness that is the real narrative focal point over the course of the whole game. Hawke, Anders, Meredith, Orsino, the Arishok, Viscount Dumar, Mother Patrice, and various others all contribute to the tensions in the city and do things that move the story along, but no one action or individual can be blamed for what goes on. I think it's no co-incidence that the final quest of the game is called "The Last Straw" because that aptly describes what has built up over the years - an evolving series of only loosely connected events that has increased the political and strategic tensions to the point that the city is a powder keg just waiting for a spark to ignite it. Anders is simply the one who lights it.

 

Very true, and I think that's what Varric was trying to get at.  Cassandra wants there to be a villain, Varric's pointing out there wasn't one.

 

But I also think that the player's (and Varric's) position is a very privileged one.  We get to see the full story, know how complicated it is.  I don't think any of it was really Hawke's fault, or at least not intentionally.  But I do wonder if outside of the people who knew him, he's going to get the blame for it all.  The Hero of Ferelden's legend in DA2 seems to have been built up to be a pure hero, regardless  of evil choices.  I'm wondering if Hawke's legend by DAI will be built up in the opposite direction, ascribing villainous motives and actions where there were none, simply because Cassandra "wasn't the first to get it all wrong."

[Darkly Tranquil]

Very true, and I think that's what Varric was trying to get at.  Cassandra wants there to be a villain, Varric's pointing out there wasn't one.

 

But I also think that the player's (and Varric's) position is a very privileged one.  We get to see the full story, know how complicated it is.  I don't think any of it was really Hawke's fault, or at least not intentionally.  But I do wonder if outside of the people who knew him, he's going to get the blame for it all.  The Hero of Ferelden's legend in DA2 seems to have been built up to be a pure hero, regardless  of evil choices.  I'm wondering if Hawke's legend by DAI will be built up in the opposite direction, ascribing villainous motives and actions where there were none, simply because Cassandra "wasn't the first to get it all wrong."

 

If it were not for Varric's storytelling, how much of Hawke's adventures would even be widely known about? Certainly the battle with the Arishok would have been newsworthy, but other than that and the final battle, what really exceptional things does Hawke do? Hawke spends most of his his/her time running errands for people and clobbering bandits and slavers around Kirkwall. Aside from a handful of notable incidents, Hawke is a freelance mercenary of no particular note.

 

You summed it up pretty well earlier - whatever the Warden did, he/she ended the Blight, which is an unambiguously good outcome that no-one would deny; they might have used harsh or dubious methods, but they are ultimately vindicated by the results. Hawke's legacy is much more ambiguous, both in terms of what took place, and what good or evil came of it. Whether Hawke is seen as hero or villain is much less cut and dried as is the case with The Warden and depends very much on what choices Hawke made during the story and which side of the mage/templar conflict one sits on.

[Hydwn]

If it were not for Varric's storytelling, how much of Hawke's adventures would even be widely known about? Certainly the battle with the Arishok would have been newsworthy, but other than that and the final battle, what really exceptional things does Hawke do? Hawke spends most of his his/her time running errands for people and clobbering bandits and slavers around Kirkwall. Aside from a handful of notable incidents, Hawke is a freelance mercenary of no particular note.

 

We actually don't know who else is telling the story, though.  It seems someone else must be, because Cassandra's version doesn't match up with Varric's.  Meredith hasn;t met Hawke until the end of Act II, and she says "The name Hawke has turned up in my reports a lot lately.  Too often."  I doubt it's Varric telling her those things.  Clearly, at least by the beginning of Act 2, Hawke is something of a celebrity, and people are talking.  

 

The inspiration for this thread was actually reading World of Thedas.  I think it was this line on page 94 that triggered it: 

 

""The infamous Champion of Kirkwall, known as Hawke, led the expedition into the Deep Roads near Kirkwall, and discovered giant veins of the mineral pushing through the cavern walls from some unknown source."

 

It goes on to mention the idol "being brought to the surface" - Bartrand's name never comes up.  Then the idol is forgotten in the next line:

 

"The discovery played an important role in the Mage-Templar crisis in Kirkwall six years later.  Templar Knight-Commander Meredith Stannard, already hostile toward mage activity in the city-state, used red lyrium to gain strength to take on the mage rebellion following a rogue mage's destruction of the local chantry."

 

The role Bartrand played is completely gone from the synopsis.  If the perspective is meant to be a mainstream Theodosian's, then "infamous" Hawke almost seems like the villain here.  Varric knows differently, the player knows differently, but Cassandra's heard a strange enough version to think Hawke started the war intentionally. 

 

And of course we know at least a little about where Red Lyrium leads.

 

One of the timeline entries blames Anders, identified as a friend of Hawke, with inciting the Mage-Templar war by blowing up the chantry with the grand cleric still in it.  None of the complicating factors are mentioned.  If World of Thedas represents the mainstream view, then that's what Hawke's going to be remembered for, and it's likely that didn't come from Varric's version.

 

She doesn't know about Flemeth.  She has heard a little about Corypheus, or at least a secret Waden prison.  

[Hydwn]

I should reiterate that it's not meant to be a Hawke-bashing thread.  Most of my Hawkes would not have deserved a bad reputation.

 

I actually rather wonder if it'll tie in with one of DA's favourite themes - how official versions of history are often wrong.  From the golden city (Corypheus claims it was black when they got there), to the Maker (Leliana said he never left the world), to Andraste (Morrigan wonders if she was a mage), to the Dwarves and their Paragons (the primeval thaig is proof that the Shaperate doesn't know all), we are constantly having it hammered in that the official histories are largely the official lies.  The story of Shartan was ripped out of Thedas' equivalent of the Bible, for purely political reasons.  Tevinter rewrote sections of that same book to support their interpretation of magic.  

 

And DA2 is framed entirely as a conflict between the official version, and the complicated and messy truth.

 

What I wonder is if this conflict between official stories and messy truths is going to extend to both previous PCs by DAI.  Will the Warden have had all their mistakes and petty evils erased, and will Hawke be boiled down to "infamous" Hawke, the man or woman who unleashed horrors on the world?  It would be in concert with the way history gets written in Thedas.  Will they be made to play the white knight and the dark knight of history?  And what will it mean for a Hawke who shows up in DAI?

[Darkly Tranquil]

"Infamous" doesn't have to mean evil. Someone can be an "infamous womaniser" for example, and be regarded as a bit of naughty boy rather than a diabolical monster. I think "infamy" in this case is used more in the context of meaning "is a colourful and slightly shady character" rather than "is a nefarious villain". We also need to take into account that we don't know whose words we are reading in WoT; who is the narrator using the word "infamous", and what is their agenda? This is worth thinking about, given that so much of what we read in DA comes from unreliable in-universe narrators, which makes taking their words at face value unwise.

That said, I'm not saying for a second that it's not entirely conceivable that if Hawke helped Anders with his bomb (even unknowingly), let him live, and then sided with the mages, that he could be legitimately perceived as a nefarious villain. But it's also possible that if Hawke refuses to aid Anders, publicly repudiates what he did, kills him, and then sides with the Templars and becomes Viscount, the argument for Hawke being seen as a villain becomes fairly implausible. I think it all depends on the choices the player makes at the end of the game in determining how Hawke is remembered/perceived.

I get the feeling that a lot of the material around Hawke and DA2 is predicated on the assumption that the player sides with the mages (that seems to be nominally expected outcome), since there are things that don't really seem to make much sense if Hawke sides with the Templars. If Hawke sides with the Templars, he/she deals with the situation at the Gallows, saves the city from the madness of Knight-Commander Meredith, is lauded by the Templars, and is named Viscount, yet Cassandra arrives thinking Hawke is some subversive pro-Mage seditionist. Why? Either the story got horribly mangled on the way to Val Royeax, or the narrative was poorly designed for a pro-Templar ending.

OR, possibly the most interesting scenario; the story has been intentionally distorted after the fact to make Hawke the fall guy for the failing of the Chantry (Elthina), the Templars (all the blood mages), and/or the Seekers (for not dealing with Meredith's overreach) and the story of the Champion has been twisted to suit the political climate of the post-Nevarran Accord Thedas that now exists when Cassandra is questioning Varric (remember Act 3 is in 9:37 and Cassandra is getting the story from Varric in 9:40, which is after the events of Asunder IIRC). Perhaps Hawke has been painted as a villain to suit the narrative being promoted by the Templars to justify their separation from the Chantry, or by the Chantry to deflect responsibility for the Kirkwall incident onto the Templars? Either side could have motives to be rewriting the story of what took place in Kirkwall to suit their agenda, since no-one comes out of it smelling of roses.

[Hydwn]

OR, possibly the most interesting scenario; the story has been intentionally distorted after the fact to make Hawke the fall guy for the failing of the Chantry (Elthina), the Templars (all the blood mages), and/or the Seekers (for not dealing with Meredith's overreach) and the story of the Champion has been twisted to suit the political climate of the post-Nevarran Accord Thedas that now exists when Cassandra is questioning Varric (remember Act 3 is in 9:37 and Cassandra is getting the story from Varric in 9:40, which is after the events of Asunder IIRC). Perhaps Hawke has been painted as a villain to suit the narrative being promoted by the Templars to justify their separation from the Chantry, or by the Chantry to deflect responsibility for the Kirkwall incident onto the Templars? Either side could have motives to be rewriting the story of what took place in Kirkwall to suit their agenda, since no-one comes out of it smelling of roses.

 

Indeed, and that would be very much in line with how history gets written in Thedas.  It makes me wonder what the average peasant has heard, or town craftsperson, or lowly brother or sister of the chantry, or the guards standing outside the palace at Val Royeaux.

 

(Part of the problem with knowing things like that is that we rarely get to see it.  We keep hearing in codex entries and printed materials and some conversations that part of the templars' duties is to protect mages from angry mobs that commonly form among commoners, but we never really see one.  A pro-mage Hawke would definitely come across as a villain in that context, where the the complex details of the circle's abuses in Kirkwall would likely get lost.)

 

All this keeps making me think of Herodotus, the Greek historian who is traditionally known as both "The Father of History" and "The Father of Lies," though I doubt he invented either.  Thedas has more than a few Herodotuses running around.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Perhaps, in light of what we have been discussing, the likely answer to your original question is that Hawke's legacy will ultimately be determined by which side wins and writes the history. What Hawke did and what Hawke's intentions were will probably end up mattering very little since the narrative will invariably be shaped to suit the interests of whoever emerges from the chaos on top. Ergo, Hawke could end being a patsy, a revolutionary hero, a cautionary tale, or a bit of all three.

[Hydwn]

Perhaps, in light of what we have been discussing, the likely answer to your original question is that Hawke's legacy will ultimately be determined by which side wins and writes the history. What Hawke did and what Hawke's intentions were will probably end up mattering very little since the narrative will invariably be shaped to suit the interests of whoever emerges from the chaos on top. Ergo, Hawke could end being a patsy, a revolutionary hero, a cautionary tale, or a bit of all three.

 

Perhaps the dialogue of templars and mages will change to reflect the final decision in DA2 then.  It'd be interesting.

 

It'll also be interesting to see what impressions the Inquisitor forms about Hawke.

 

I've been using the Mass Effect games as a framework to guess about Dragon Age.  So far there's been plenty of parallel in terms of story development and gameplay from game to game.  

 

(From an epic, heavy storyline about being chosen as the person who can stop an ancient horror that no one quite believes in, to a smaller, character-driven story that seems tangential and tends to focus on you and your companions.  Also from a slow, strategy-focused game to a face-paced actiony and stylized game with fewer settings.)

 

But the one big difference besides the fantasy versus science-fiction setting is that you have a different character each time in Dragon Age.  Oddly, Hawke never really seems to form opinions about the Warden.  Perhaps that's because he'd not picking up where the Warden left off (he's not fighting Darkspawn).  The Inquisitor is going to be picking up on the mage-templar conflict, so Hawke is likely going to come up.  I wonder what they'll have heard? 

[Darkly Tranquil]

But the one big difference besides the fantasy versus science-fiction setting is that you have a different character each time in Dragon Age.  Oddly, Hawke never really seems to form opinions about the Warden.  Perhaps that's because he'd not picking up where the Warden left off (he's not fighting Darkspawn).  The Inquisitor is going to be picking up on the mage-templar conflict, so Hawke is likely going to come up.  I wonder what they'll have heard?

I don't think Hawke ever directly mentions The Warden, although I think Aveline and Anders both do (maybe Isabella too?), as does Alistair if you encounter him, so Hawke at least encounters other people's opinions about the Warden even if he/she never expresses one of his/her own. Perhaps the Inquisitor will be able to talk about Hawke with Varric, Leliana, and Cassandra; they will all have definite opinions about Hawke (what those opinions are may depend on your story choices from DA2). Of course, if Hawke does put in an appearance, as seems likely based on the trailer, the Inquisitor may get to talk to Hawke directly at some point.

[Kenshen]

We actually don't know who else is telling the story, though.  It seems someone else must be, because Cassandra's version doesn't match up with Varric's.  Meredith hasn;t met Hawke until the end of Act II, and she says "The name Hawke has turned up in my reports a lot lately.  Too often."  I doubt it's Varric telling her those things.  Clearly, at least by the beginning of Act 2, Hawke is something of a celebrity, and people are talking.  

 

 

 

You get that line if Carver didn't become a templar but if he does then Meredith will comment how she barely knows anything about Hawke, like someone keeping reports of them a secret.  Or something close to that been awhile.

[Hydwn]

You get that line if Carver didn't become a templar but if he does then Meredith will comment how she barely knows anything about Hawke, like someone keeping reports of them a secret.  Or something close to that been awhile.

 

I did not know that.  I was going to replay my carver-becomes-a-templar one, so I'll get a chance to see.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Actually, why were Cassandra and Leliana looking for Hawhe's help if they thought he or she was a bad guy at the start?

[whanzephruseke]

Actually, why were Cassandra and Leliana looking for Hawhe's help if they thought he or she was a bad guy at the start?

 

Because they thought that Hawke was the only one who could fix everything, since the Hero is AWOL.