106 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

How would you have wanted Morinth to be handled in ME3? All we saw of her is an email to Shepard confirming she's still succubusing her way around the galaxy, blocked correspondence to her sisters suggesting she might try to break them out, and a re-named Banshee on Earth. I think some changes were in order, starting in her apartment in ME2... but first, a bit of mood music:



If you're locked out of the persuasions, with only the "can't... think..." option available, instead of defaulting to siding with Samara, Shepard remains immobilized on the couch during the ensuing confrontation. Morinth overpowers and kills her mother without your intervention, but not quickly - not with a broken neck. Morinth's eyes go black, and she melds with her own mother. Think Aria/Petrovsky, only a tad bit more f***ed up.

As soon as Samara goes limp, the biotic haze around Morinth fades. Her reaction is not unlike someone who just took a hit of a potent drug. She stretches her neck with a sultry sigh, slinking back over to the couch where Shepard is still immobilized and completely at her mercy. Insert something creepy here - maybe she smells the air near Shepard, eyes briefly black again. Maybe she traces a finger aglow with biotics along Shepard's jawline while she's talking. In essence, she says she supposes she should thank you for getting her mother off her back, that it's been fun and she'll catch up again one day (or something similarly ominous). She then leaves the apartment, at which point Shepard finally snaps out of the trance and falls to the floor in a coughing fit, as though he/she's been holding their breath the whole time. Failing the loyalty mission truly fails it - you lose a squadmate instead of simply failing to gain their loyalty, and Morinth's killing spree continues unabated.

They could have done a lot more with her in ME3, then, with her alive, regardless of if you recruited her. If Morinth survived, she should have showed up at the monastery to free her sisters, as her correspondence to them suggests she would, presenting the moral question of whether to kill her at the mission's end. If you failed Samara's loyalty mission by failing to get her to take you to the apartment in the first place, then both Samara AND Morinth show up at the monastery looking for Rila and Falere - one seeking to secure them, the other to free them. Their meeting would be rather explosive, and you would in all likelihood have to make a choice deciding which of them survives it.

Either that or Morinth sets off the bomb. Regardless, what are your thoughts?

[SporkFu]

Liked for Dexter.

I would loved to have seen Morinth at the monastery, taking Rila's place and setting off the bomb to save both her sisters.

[cap and gown]

You want to rope me even more tightly into a persuasion system I hate? No thanks.

[DeinonSlayer]

Never said ME2's persuasion system didn't suck (we're already pretty firmly leashed by the loyalty confrontations). Just my take on how the scene could have played out.

[themikefest]

Instead of her just being a banshee and then killed in London, just have her be a mandatory death during the suicide mission.

[cap and gown]

Never said ME2's persuasion system didn't suck (we're already pretty firmly leashed by the loyalty confrontations). Just my take on how the scene could have played out.

 

I have never felt leashed by those. First, even my 50/50 characters (which are most of them) are able to pass those checks, renegade with Miri/Jack and paragon with Legion/Tali. Second, except for Miranda's loyalty, none of the loyalty disputes matter since I can a) get the non-loyal team mates through the SM regardless, and b ) I can still achieve peace btw the Quarians and the Geth if I so desire while still choosing either Tali or Legion over the other.

 

The Morinth check, OTOH, is one I hardly ever pass. Your scenario would force me into being paragon or renegade since I want Samara on the team.

[ImaginaryMatter]

For ME2 I would add the option to physically combat her as soon as you enter the apartment. Maybe add some flavor by engaging her with weapons, biotics, or tech depending on class. The fight would be very difficult and Shepard can die.

 

As for ME3 I like the idea of meeting up with her at the monastery if Samara's loyalty mission wasn't done. As for what happens if you choose her as a squadmate, well... I've always disliked that option so I don't really have an opinion.

[ZipZap2000]

Nice.

[Jorji Costava]

I think it's a huge improvement over the original in every way; there are only a couple things I would add:

 

1. I definitely like the idea that you can lose squadmates permanently outside of the context of the suicide mission, but like others, I'm not sure I'd want that outcome to be determined by whether or not I can make a P/R check. The less depends on that broken system, the better IMO.

 

2. There needed to be more of a pretext for why you would want to recruit Morinth in the first place. Maybe she has some kind of valuable and unique skill, critical information about the Collectors/Reapers, etc. I like the idea of having at least one squadmate who doesn't have that inner spark of humanity just waiting to be rekindled by The Shepard, but the idea that you're going to kill one of your teammates behind the rest of the squad's back so you can recruit a known sociopathic murderer (all while just hoping that she can pass as her mother) just seems bonkers. Sometimes, it seems like the developers thought you could just take any given stupid action, highlight it in red and call the decision of whether or not to do that idiotic thing a 'moral choice.'

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, the Morinth decision was poorly handled from the beginning. Heck I wish that Illusive Man called up Shep on the QEC about it.

 

TIM: [drags cigarette] Shepard, I gave you free rein on this mission, but I have doubts about some of your decisions, namely the...swapping of one of the agents specified in the dossiers.

 

Shepard: I suspect this has to do with Morinth.

 

TIM: [sips bourbon] Your fascination with genetically defunct vampires notwithstanding, I'm starting to wonder how you became Commander in the first place. As we speak, Miranda is giving EDI permission to depressurize Starboard Observation to clear out the bad element. I'm sorry, Shepard, but it's for the good of the mission.

 

Shepard: Don't lec...

 

[end transmission]

[Jorji Costava]

I was also just reminded of something that should have come up on the "Dumbest lines" thread (I'm not going to look through the whole thing to see if it's there): It's when Morinth pronounces herself the "genetic destiny" of the Asari. Not really sure how that's supposed to work.

[FaWa]

Morinth is an awesome character. 

 

In ME3 she should have had a role similar to her mother's, trying to break her sisters out of the monastery. Her sister tries to shoot her, you can save her with a paragon interrupt. If she survives she goes back into hiding but will agree to fight on your side or something. +15 war assets. 

[KaiserShep]

I was also just reminded of something that should have come up on the "Dumbest lines" thread (I'm not going to look through the whole thing to see if it's there): It's when Morinth pronounces herself the "genetic destiny" of the Asari. Not really sure how that's supposed to work.

 

In fairness, if Shepard touches on the subject, Samara will point out that Morinth will say anything to manipulate others. Of course, if that was the case, she would have looked silly if Samara actually interjected with that little factoid about being sterile at the moment she bothered to say that.

 

Morinth: I am the genetic destiny of the asari!

 

Samara: B***h, you know yo dumb ass is sterile!

 

Shepard: Oooooh snap!

 

Edit: This is all aside from the very idea that something such as Morinth being the genetic destiny of any species would be significantly worse .

[SporkFu]

Could be that Morinth believes the sterility thing to be bullsh*t propaganda meant to further stigmatize ardat-yakshi.

[KaiserShep]

The ardat-yakshi basically dole death by snu snu. I don't think the stigma can get any worse than that.

[SporkFu]

Okay, then to further stigmatize pureblood asari

[Fasterghost]

Okay, then to further stigmatize pureblood asari

Yes. I think that is the case. People hate the purebloods - people hate the ardat-yakshi... so why not just combine the two into one? We only heard the pureblood thing from Samara and she is hardly an impartial source. Personally, I think that any asari can be ardat-yakshi, pureblood or not... the way their reproduction works, the father should not make a physical difference in the child.

 

The thing that seriously bugs me is that the asari are treating the ardat-yakshi with some sort of medieval superstition... like its a curse from the goddess instead of a medical condition (like what human thought of leprosy). Did they try to cure it?

 

Also, locking the ardat-yakshi away just because they MIGHT kill someone in the future is horrible. From our point of view, it is a blatant violation of human rights. Nobody can be interned on the grounds of they MIGHT do.

 

And sure, if the AY gets out of hand and murder someone (like Morinth), then treat them as you would any other murderers... but locking entirely innocent asari up is wrong.

 

-----

 

But back to original post. Yeah, I think that what you said would make more of a sense if Shepard failed the persuasion check and he/she remained under Morinth's control... In that case, either Morinth should have been chosen by default, or alternative, the scene you described would happen.

 

It's difficult to see Shepard going from being helplessly brainwashed (can't think...) to completely confident again (end of the line, morinth...) in range of few seconds.

 

I would certainly liked to see more of Morinth in ME3.

 

And would have LOVED to see her in Citadel DLC party... but alas :-)

[SporkFu]

Yes. I think that is the case. People hate the purebloods - people hate the ardat-yakshi... so why not just combine the two into one? We only heard the pureblood thing from Samara and she is hardly an impartial source. Personally, I think that any asari can be ardat-yakshi, pureblood or not... the way their reproduction works, the father should not make a physical difference in the child.

 

The thing that seriously bugs me is that the asari are treating the ardat-yakshi with some sort of medieval superstition... like its a curse from the goddess instead of a medical condition (like what human thought of leprosy). Did they try to cure it?

 

Also, locking the ardat-yakshi away just because they MIGHT kill someone in the future is horrible. From our point of view, it is a blatant violation of human rights. Nobody can be interned on the grounds of they MIGHT do.

 

And sure, if the AY gets out of hand and murder someone (like Morinth), then treat them as you would any other murderers... but locking entirely innocent asari up is wrong.

 

-----

 

But back to original post. Yeah, I think that what you said would make more of a sense if Shepard failed the persuasion check and he/she remained under Morinth's control... In that case, either Morinth should have been chosen by default, or alternative, the scene you described would happen.

 

It's difficult to see Shepard going from being helplessly brainwashed (can't think...) to completely confident again (end of the line, morinth...) in range of few seconds.

 

I would certainly liked to see more of Morinth in ME3.

 

And would have LOVED to see her in Citadel DLC party... but alas :-)

I dunno. Listening to Samara in starboard lounge in ME2, when she talks about the depiction ardat-yakshi in ancient asari mythology... they were vampires. They killed, and the more they killed the more they got off on it. Liara describes Morinth as "just hitting her stride" after she'd already been killing for four hundred years, and she adds, "Ardat-Yakshi who kill leave behind astronomical body counts." 

 

Also I believe that the AY who went to the monastery did so voluntarily, when the condition began to manifest itself. Sure, they had rules imposed on them but... well, any monastery has rules. 

 

Finally, I can't imagine the asari not trying to cure it after all this time. 

[Farangbaa]

So eh...

 

Is Aria an Ardat-Yakshi with control?

 

Oh wait, apparantly she has a daughter.

 

there's a thread on here about it with this gem of a post:

 

When she killed him at the last moment with "embrace eternity" the last moments for him felt like a slow death. Like he was being strangled to death for hours or something. Time kind of looped for him in his mind even after she stopped. Pretty sure that's what she did. If so then that's one hell of a way to go. To never be able to breath again while still being alive and slowing feeling yourself slip away in slow motion. lol

 

Sick.

 

I LOVE IT

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I just don't think we needed more p/r checks in ME2, especially to keep a squadmate alive. 

Shepard would have to be an idiot to side with Morinth anyway. There is absolutely nothing to gain from it. Except allowing a date-rapist murderer onto the Normandy. 

 

[FaWa]

Shepard would have to be an idiot to side with Morinth anyway. There is absolutely nothing to gain from it. Except allowing a date-rapist murderer onto the Normandy. 

 

 

Dominate! 

And a really cool companion.

[DeinonSlayer]

I just don't think we needed more p/r checks in ME2, especially to keep a squadmate alive. 
Shepard would have to be an idiot to side with Morinth anyway. There is absolutely nothing to gain from it. Except allowing a date-rapist murderer onto the Normandy.

Maybe if Samara was a bit more serious about her vow to kill Renegade Shepard at the end of the Collector mission, (s)he would be inclined to see her as a threat?

[eyezonlyii]

Maybe if Samara was a bit more serious about her vow to kill Renegade Shepard at the end of the Collector mission, (s)he would be inclined to see her as a threat?

 

but even then, you would have had to play the game once before to know that. I think a better way would have been to recruit Morinth first, then have her loyalty be to rid her of an Asari who has been hunting her across the galaxy. During the mission is when we find out about Samara and why she's hunting Morinth. That way, you already have a connection to the character, and maybe you can even have her to have started a redemption arc.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

but even then, you would have had to play the game once before to know that. I think a better way would have been to recruit Morinth first, then have her loyalty be to rid her of an Asari who has been hunting her across the galaxy. During the mission is when we find out about Samara and why she's hunting Morinth. That way, you already have a connection to the character, and maybe you can even have her to have started a redemption arc.

But within the confines of the story, Cerberus is not gonna advise that Shepard pick up a mass murdering Ardat-Yakshi. 
 

Maybe if Samara was a bit more serious about her vow to kill Renegade Shepard at the end of the Collector mission, (s)he would be inclined to see her as a threat?

Well, even a renegade Shepard doesn't do much, or really anything, that I can think of that would necessarily violate the code to a degree, without changing up other missions. 

Maybe helping Vasir or something, but I can't think of much. 

[KainD]

It's pretty simple actually, I would love seeing Morinth at the monastery instead of Samara, trying to bust her sisters out. After the mission I would welcome her as a squadmate once more, but the roster is full so they wouldn't go that route. So I would just like Morinth as a war asset / comrade in the final battle, as an alternative to Samara. At the very least I would like Morinth to not be mentioned at all through out the game. Making her a random banshee pissed me off greatly.