106 réponses à ce sujet

[SporkFu]

"Here's my friend Jeff. Sure, he stuffs kids in fridges by the lake, but he's a fantastic golfer!"

Given the subject matter, I probably shouldn't have lol'ed... but I did. 

[KainD]

If my best friend turned out to be a killer or rapist , his ass would be sent up the river posthaste. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

You sure you know what's a friend? 

[KaiserShep]

You sure you know what's a friend?

I could ask the same thing. I under no circumstances would I ever harbor someone I know to be a threat to the rest of society. I have very strict standards when it comes to friendship. No murderers or the sort allowed. Ever. It's a standard that will never change, even for the closest of family members. I don't care what they've done for me. You violate those simple rules, then f*** em.

[KainD]

I could ask the same thing. I under no circumstances would harbor someone I know to be a threat to the rest of society. I have very strict standards when it comes to friendship. No murderers or the sort allowed. Ever. It's a standard that will never change, even for the closest of family members.

 

That's a nice standard when you live in a community in which people care about one another, where everybody are close and help each other out, work for common goals. Unfortunately the modern society is not such a place. A thought to punish my friend for hurting some random people in a world where people hurt each other all the time wouldn't, wouldn't even cross my mind. 

[RatThing]

Yeah, when I bond with people, how they treat others is not my concern, what matters is how the two of us get along. 

 

If you're ok with your friend murdering people then something's wrong with you (not to mention it's egomaniacal as hell). I mean I like Morinth as long as it's just fiction but in real life the choice should be clear. A murderer of innocent people must be locked away, friend or not.

[KainD]

If you're ok with your friend murdering people then something's wrong with you (not to mention it's egomaniacal as hell). I mean I like Morinth as long as it's just fiction but in real life the choice should be clear. A murderer of innocent people must be locked away, friend or not.

 

There is no such thing as an innocent person. A person can only by innocent of something in particular, the word should be used in context. 

[RatThing]

There is no such thing as an innocent person. A person can only by innocent of something in particular, the word should be used in context. 

 

Yeah sure, give me more of this pseudo philosophic crap.  Doesn't change that covering a murderer is ****ed up. You know why the society is such a shitty place? Because of people who don't give a damn about what happens to "some random people".  

[KainD]

You know why the society is such a shitty place? Because of people who don't give a damn about what happens to "some random people".  

 

No, it's because people are different and have different values, because of that people don't bond. When the difference is small people simply stop caring, when the difference is bigger, people start to fight. There are people in the world that I cannot and shouldn't care about and vise verse, because we are too different to get along. There's really no way out and there will always be conflict. 

[RatThing]

No, it's because people are different and have different values, because of that people don't bond. When the difference is small people simply stop caring, when the difference is bigger, people start to fight. There are people in the world that I cannot and shouldn't care about and vise verse, because we are too different to get along. There's really no way out and there will always be conflict. 

If your murdering friend kills someone, then the one responsible for the suffering of the victim and his family is that murdering scum and YOU for covering him. Not different values or anything else that must sound so damn smart in your head but really isn't.

[KainD]

If your murdering friend kills someone, then the one responsible for the suffering of the victim and his family is that murdering scum and YOU for covering him. Not different values or anything else that must sound so damn smart in your head but really isn't.

 

I don't care about random peoples suffering, and neither should they care about mine. I care about people that are close to me and care about me. It's very simple. 

[RatThing]

I don't care about random peoples suffering, and neither should they care about mine. I care about people that are close to me and care about me. It's very simple. 

 And that makes you an egomaniac, a sociopath and overall a shitty person. Also simple.

[KainD]

 And that makes you an egomaniac, a sociopath and overall a shitty person. Also simple.

 

Fair enough. The shitty person part not universal though. 

[KaiserShep]

That's a nice standard when you live in a community in which people care about one another, where everybody are close and help each other out, work for common goals. Unfortunately the modern society is not such a place. A thought to punish my friend for hurting some random people in a world where people hurt each other all the time wouldn't, wouldn't even cross my mind.

I live in NYC. What is this community you speak of? lol

In any case, I don't think it's a good idea for me to take any of this seriously.

 

EDIT: Screw it. I guess I'll add this. If you're going to be apathetic, you should at least be practical. A murderer is an impractical friend that is a danger to you whether or not that person ever intends to kill you, because, as it turns out, modern society also deals with these sorts of people all the time. What would you do if police came to your door asking if you've seen that person? Would you protect this person, and put yourself at risk of incarceration despite knowing full well that this person actually did do what the police are there for? This contradicts the intensely selfish outlook that drives this sort of attitude, so it leads me to believe that this wouldn't be friendship; it would be stupidity.

 

In terms of Mass Effect, this also applies to Morinth. I believe that the choice to keep Morinth instead of Samara is stupid. Up until this point, all you know is that she's a vampire drug addict that prowls night clubs for new victims. But then, ME2 kind of bugs me a little with the logic for Jack as well. You know she's powerful, but her demeanor indicates to me that she would have been better off left to die on that space station, which, in Shepard's place, I most certainly would have.

[KainD]

I live in NYC. What is this community you speak of? lol

 

My point exactly. 

 

EDIT: Screw it. I guess I'll add this. If you're going to be apathetic, you should at least be practical. A murderer is an impractical friend that is a danger to you whether or not that person ever intends to kill you, because, as it turns out, modern society also deals with these sorts of people all the time. What would you do if police came to your door asking if you've seen that person? Would you protect this person, and put yourself at risk of incarceration despite knowing full well that this person actually did do what the police are there for? This contradicts the intensely selfish outlook that drives this sort of attitude, so it leads me to believe that this wouldn't be friendship; it would be stupidity.

 

A good friend is worth all the risks. 

 

Edit: Honestly, safety is just overrated. People are willing to give up so much freedom and so much enjoyment in life for safety, that it's not even worth living anymore afterwards.

 

In terms of Mass Effect, this also applies to Morinth. I believe that the choice to keep Morinth instead of Samara is stupid. Up until this point, all you know is that she's a vampire drug addict that prowls night clubs for new victims. But then, ME2 kind of bugs me a little with the logic for Jack as well. You know she's powerful, but her demeanor indicates to me that she would have been better off left to die on that space station, which, in Shepard's place, I most certainly would have.

 

In Morinth's case I considered her more powerful and eager than Samara. She has unique talents that Samara doesn't possess, and followed me on the mission out of her own free will. The fact that I didn't get to use her unique talents mission wise ( she didn't get a lot of lines all together ) doesn't mean that the logic does not apply. Besides Samara likes to threaten me, which I don't take kindly to. And honestly t's not only Morinth and Jack, the whole ME2 is made off assassins, psychos, thieves, xenophobes, terrorists etc. 

[KaiserShep]

Goodness. This is what I get to taking this seriously.

[KainD]

Goodness. This is what I get to taking this seriously.

 

You don't take people seriously, or you don't think I'm serious? 

[ImaginaryMatter]

DeinonSlayer, your posts seem to have some very, er... interesting derailments.

[ImaginaryMatter]

You don't take people seriously, or you don't think I'm serious? 

 

Well you are taking a person who just seconds before the moment of choice did try to murder you. And who afterwords still tries to kill you.

 

It's like keeping a hungry jaguar as a pet. Sure, they're cool animals but that doesn't mean you should let it sleep in your house.

[KaiserShep]

You don't take people seriously, or you don't think I'm serious? 

 

What I mean to say is that I have absolutely no respect for this particular outlook, and won't address it further.

 

This has gone off topic long enough anyway.

[essarr71]

Well you are taking a person who just seconds before the moment of choice did try to murder you. And who afterwords still tries to kill you.

 

It's like keeping a hungry jaguar as a pet. Sure, they're cool animals but that doesn't mean you should let it sleep in your house.

 

Yeah, but what sort of friend would you be if that bugged you?  Don't be that guy.  They're awful at parties.

 

 

On a more serious note:  I was waiting for Kain to show up when I saw this thread.  Did not disappoint.

[themikefest]

Back to Morinth.

 

I chose her over Samara for one playthrough just to see the different outcome. Her bonus power isn't very impressive.

[Jukaga]

Yeah, there's that. It's been a while. 

Though with the two options, killing all the heretics or rewriting all of them, neither are really the paragon of idealism personified.  

 

It's a morally neutral decision. It's like 'do I upgrade the OS on my old crappy PC or throw it out?'
 

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, but what sort of friend would you be if that bugged you?  Don't be that guy.  They're awful at parties.

 

 

On a more serious note:  I was waiting for Kain to show up when I saw this thread.  Did not disappoint.

 

Hah. Foreknowledge is power.

[essarr71]

Hah. Foreknowledge is power.

 

Personal experience.  I lived that conversation once. 

 

I wish the scenario with Morinth was more complex than presented, but it's hard to find any justifiable reason to pick her outside of just experimentation/curiosity of results.  I just can't find any strong, logical foundation for a moral high-ground position defending her.  Any redeeming quality would have been nice - say, only killing evil people, like her mother, to turn it into an order v chaos sort of philosophical choice.  Instead it's: do you want the honorable, experienced monk or the innocent teenage girl predator?

[KainD]

Well you are taking a person who just seconds before the moment of choice did try to murder you. And who afterwords still tries to kill you.

 

It's like keeping a hungry jaguar as a pet. Sure, they're cool animals but that doesn't mean you should let it sleep in your house.

 

Morinth didn't want to kill Shepard, she wanted to kill a random attractive guy at a rave, which Shepard was playing undercover. Then if you help her she proposes to help you on the mission, even though she doesn't have to, and there is no one to stop her from jut leaving or killing Shepard anyway. And afterwards she honestly just speaks her mind and doesn't get too upset if you deny her proposal to bone, she even waits until AFTER a freaking suicide mission which she knows she might not live to see through.