34 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

Is choosing an adviser to handle an operation merely a choice befitting to your style of how you want to rule, or is it actually possible to choose the "wrong" adviser for the situation, causing the operation to fail? For example if I choose assassination/brute force over diplomacy for one particular scenario, could it lead to a botched operation?

[Kantr]

I would prefer the second option. Making you think about what to do, rather than going "meh I feel like sending cullen right now"

 

We know sending Leliana to Redcliffe was not a good move.

[Ghostjs]

I imagine it will be the second scenario, and some that are success but with a negative affect added.

 

Example: An assassin is hiding in  the court of a Arl, you have to decide how to take care of them. Send Josephine and try and convince the Arl  to hand over the assassin, Send Leliana and poison the assassin, or send Cullen and have the army of the Inquisition lay siege to the Arl's castle. In this scenario I would imagine that sending Cullen ( though possibly successful) would have a negative effect on the reputation of the Inquisition. 

[Icy Magebane]

That's a good question.  I don't mind if some methods are more effective than others from time to time, but I'm undecided about whether or not it should be obvious that one of the three is a bad idea.  Even a great plan can fail due to unforeseen circumstances, so I'd want that to be represented as well... I mean, what if assassination appears to be the best choice, but your Secrets rating is very low?  That should cause the plan to fail, so the other two would need to be viable in their own way or else the mission would be impossible to successfully complete.  Unless our strength in the three categories has no bearing on mission success... if not, it should.

[Ophir147]

I would prefer the second option. Making you think about what to do, rather than going "meh I feel like sending cullen right now"

 

We know sending Leliana to Redcliffe was not a good move.

 

Do we?

 

I would prefer it if there were instances in which things are going to get FUBAR no matter who you send, and it's more of a personal question. Such as;

 

"Do I want to favor espionage and cunning and send Leliana in, even though she gets capture and tortured, making her unstable?"

 

or

 

"Do I want to send Cullen in with a regiment of my best fighters in order to lay waste to the farmland with the ultimate goal of sieging the castle and using brute force to allow for an honest confrontation? Even though this option is likely to earn me little love from the layman whose crops I am burning and homes I am destroying?"

 

or 

 

"Do I want to send Josephine along with a delegation of Diplomats to try to calmly reason with the batshit insane blood mages? What could possibly go wrong with that!?"

[Kantr]

seeing as bad things happen. I'd say it wasnt the best

[MasterPrudent]

seeing as bad things happen. I'd say it wasnt the best

But what Ophir was suggesting is that sometimes there might be no way to prevent something bad from happening and the choice might be deciding which option is the lesser evil. This would be out of character for Bioware - they've almost always had ways to complete their games fairly painlessly - but I very much hope they've decided to insert a few more Virmires into DA:I.

 

In any case it's unclear as to whether sending Leliana resulted in bad consequences because that always happens if you send her or if it was the result of a low secrets rating (a possibility suggested by Icy Magebane) or some other decisions made along the way.

[Panda]

Well we already saw what happens if you send Leliana to Redcliffe, she will get caught and tortured, will start hating mages and then she'll kill Dorian's teacher's son which triggers the battle and you have to kill Dorian's teacher as well. With different advisor the quest probaply would have worked differently, maybe better, maybe worse.

[Ferretinabun]

 I mean, what if assassination appears to be the best choice, but your Secrets rating is very low? 

 

Wait, sorry, I seem to have missed this memo.

 

What's a Secrets rating?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

There is zero sense of achievement or success if failure as an option is eliminated.

 

If any choice will lead to success operations will be boring and feel pointless and reduced to "What reward do I want from this" - not even needing to read the text. In other words, operations should fail if you choose badly. If not operations will probably be a huge disappointment.

 

[Ruairi46]

I'm not sure how I would like this to play out, however I see myself using a very military oriented approach to most operations, so yeah... We'll see how that works out.

[MasterPrudent]

Wait, sorry, I seem to have missed this memo.

 

What's a Secrets rating?

 

It's somewhat speculative but the idea is that you are able increase the effectiveness of each of the three pillars of your inquisition (agents aka secrets, military and diplomacy) either by recruiting agents, dedicating keeps to them or through other means.

[Darth Krytie]

seeing as bad things happen. I'd say it wasnt the best

 

But we really have no context about why the Leliana situation ended up that poorly. We don't know if there are other things that precipitated that conclusion other than we sent her to spy. It's possible that choosing Leliana for that same mission, but under different conditions could potentially work out better.

[Icy Magebane]

But we really have no context about why the Leliana situation ended up that poorly. We don't know if there are other things that precipitated that conclusion other than we sent her to spy. It's possible that choosing Leilana for that same mission, but under different conditions could potentially work out better.

Yes, I recall the devs saying that there were other factors that led up to the scenario, although they didn't specify what those were... supposedly that scene might not even occur based on what path the story takes.  I'm willing to bet that there's more to it than sending Leliana on the mission and that she doesn't always get captured.

[AshenEndymion]

There is zero sense of achievement or success if failure as an option is eliminated.

 

If any choice will lead to success operations will be boring and feel pointless and reduced to "What reward do I want from this" - not even needing to read the text. In other words, operations should fail if you choose badly. If not operations will probably be a huge disappointment.

 

This isn't entirely true.

 

I mean, say you send Josephine on a mission and the Inquisition gets gold, but Leliana would bring back crafting materials instead, while Cullen brings gold as well as opening up a possible path that would have been unavailable otherwise(which you may find out immediately, or not until said mission starts).  All three are different, but which is considered "ideal" depends on what you, the Inquisitor, feel is best for your Inquisition.

 

I agree that sending certain advisers and having them failing operations can help bring about a sense of accomplishment, but I will feel like I was screwed if I send Josephine, don't have her available for 4 hours, and then find out the mission failed when it would have been fine if I sent Cullen instead.  If failure is indeed an option for most every mission, unless there's, essentially, a bright neon sign in the mission text saying "Josephine shouldn't be sent on this", I don't see how I'll get around that idea that this might be just something I'm going to have to do prior to bed, and save-scum in the morning...

[Momowo]

But what Ophir was suggesting is that sometimes there might be no way to prevent something bad from happening and the choice might be deciding which option is the lesser evil. This would be out of character for Bioware - they've almost always had ways to complete their games fairly painlessly - but I very much hope they've decided to insert a few more Virmires into DA:I.

 

In any case it's unclear as to whether sending Leliana resulted in bad consequences because that always happens if you send her or if it was the result of a low secrets rating (a possibility suggested by Icy Magebane) or some other decisions made along the way.

 

Why would you wish such a thing!
(Ps: It would be awesome but my heart couldn't take it... )

 

To be honest I think it will be more to do with gathering resources, play-style and personal preference than 'which is the lesser or three bad outcomes'.

[Eveangaline]

My main question is, when you send an advisor, do you then have the chance to go to the area and see them in action? Since you can find Leliana captured I assumed that was the result of choosing to send her there, then going there while her mission was still active (or maybe capturing is a special event where they don't come back after you send them)

[Kieran G.]

I pretty sure one of the dev's said you can make the absolute wrong choice on certain operations. but i don't remember completely.

[Amaror]

This isn't entirely true.

 

I mean, say you send Josephine on a mission and the Inquisition gets gold, but Leliana would bring back crafting materials instead, while Cullen brings gold as well as opening up a possible path that would have been unavailable otherwise(which you may find out immediately, or not until said mission starts).  All three are different, but which is considered "ideal" depends on what you, the Inquisitor, feel is best for your Inquisition.

 

I agree that sending certain advisers and having them failing operations can help bring about a sense of accomplishment, but I will feel like I was screwed if I send Josephine, don't have her available for 4 hours, and then find out the mission failed when it would have been fine if I sent Cullen instead.  If failure is indeed an option for most every mission, unless there's, essentially, a bright neon sign in the mission text saying "Josephine shouldn't be sent on this", I don't see how I'll get around that idea that this might be just something I'm going to have to do prior to bed, and save-scum in the morning...

 

Why do you need a bright neon sign? I agree that the game should at least give a hint at what advisor would be the right choice, but if it's obvious then there's no accomplishment to choosing the right one.

Example of what we have seen in Redcliff:

You have to deal with some crazy bloodmages

1. Leliana wants to go in and assassinate the big bad bloodmage

2. Josephine wants to negotiate with the bloogmages

3. Cullen wants to go in with a team of templars to deal with the bloodmages.

 

You can see that Josephine's option would not be very smart and obviously the worst choice. Leliana is not a bad idea, but the fact that we are dealing with mages and Cullen want to use templars suggests that he would be the best choice.

[Conquerthecity]

I hope it's the latter.

 

There's that Serpent of Nevarra mission that to me seems like it's designed for Leliana. Basically the King of Nevarra has a new adviser who's most probably a Venatori. Maybe I'm just uncreative, but in this instance I think anyone other than Leliana would result in a botched operation. 

 

What's Cullen going to do? Besiege the King of Nevarra's castle until one man is released, executed, or captured? 

What's Josephine going to do? Write a strongly worded letter or spread rumors among Nevarra's elite that this adviser cannot be trusted? Or something else? 

 

In this instance, Leliana seems like the best options, while the others are more questionable.

[AshenEndymion]

Why do you need a bright neon sign? I agree that the game should at least give a hint at what advisor would be the right choice, but if it's obvious then there's no accomplishment to choosing the right one.

Example of what we have seen in Redcliff:

You have to deal with some crazy bloodmages

1. Leliana wants to go in and assassinate the big bad bloodmage

2. Josephine wants to negotiate with the bloogmages

3. Cullen wants to go in with a team of templars to deal with the bloodmages.

 

You can see that Josephine's option would not be very smart and obviously the worst choice. Leliana is not a bad idea, but the fact that we are dealing with mages and Cullen want to use templars suggests that he would be the best choice.

 

... The fact that people don't usually execute Jowan in his cell the moment they meet him in Redcliffe, added to the fact that not executing him in his cell is considered a "good" choice, I don't really see how it can be claimed that the Josephine option in your example is "obviously the worst choice".  One could say Cullen's "walk in and kill everyone" option is obviously the worst choice(I wouldn't, but there are enough pro-mage players on these forums who would probably say as much).

 

It's that exact type of scenario that needs the bright neon sign that all but says "this will fail" if you're going to have missions or operations fail outright.  Because that scenario certainly isn't one that is as obvious as "send Josephine to negotiate with the darkspawn horde attacking the local Grey Warden outpost"(then again, your Keep import might have a living Architect)...

 

I can understand if such a scenario were to happen late in the game, after you've done a number of missions and set up the basis of your Inquisition.  That it might result in failure with reasoning along the lines "this is the obvious wrong answer, because your Inquisition has proven not to be very friendly to mages", but not if it were in the early stages of the game...  In the early goings of the Inquisition, there really aren't that many wrong choices that could be construed as obvious.  And that's why I say there'd need to be that bright neon sign if the game is going to have actual failures, rather than varying degrees of success...

[Ranadiel Marius]

My main question is, when you send an advisor, do you then have the chance to go to the area and see them in action? Since you can find Leliana captured I assumed that was the result of choosing to send her there, then going there while her mission was still active (or maybe capturing is a special event where they don't come back after you send them)

I recall seeing a comment by a dev that you can still talk to your advisers at Skyhold while they are on a war table mission because they are organizing operatives to go on those missions not going to the missions themselves (plus I was under the impression that some war table missions will be occurring at locations we can't go to). I can only assume that the Leliana captured thing is a storyline related choice and not a war table related choice.

[Tinxa]

Seems to me there are 3 different types of missions with advisors:

 

1. Story heavy missions like sending Leliana to Redcliffe - the advisor goes there him/herself and we see the aftermath ingame.

 

2. the king's advisor mission (Serpent of Nevarra) - the advisors suggest different options and we choose one, nameless agents are sent and we receive the report via the wartable, choosing different advisors may or may not result in different outcomes.

 

3. "find the missing soldiers" mission - completing this mission seems to give us access to the rainy swamp area that was in recent demos, seems to me that it is always successful only that choosing different advisors takes different amounts of time for the mission to be completed.

[Revan Reborn]

First and foremost I believe it's based largely on what kind of Inquisition you want to build. Do you want to be a diplomat? A warmonger? Or an assassin? I believe the choices you make will more so impact how others perceive the Inquisition. Failure could potentially happen, and I hope it does, but I'm not sure if it's a determinant based on which particular approach may be more effective given the context of the situation. As far as the Leliana situation is concerned, I was under the impression that was a main story quest, or at least something of greater significance than just a war table task. I'm almost certain Leliana hasn't even become an adviser for the Inquisition at that point as well.

[UniformGreyColor]

The Devs keep saying its the most dynamic RPG you will play. I'm wondering if this means that the table mission (if it is indeed a table mission) can give three different outcomes based on who you choose to send, all furthering the main story line in some way. Just a thought.