217 réponses à ce sujet

[caradoc2000]

Bioware games in general tend to have a fairly broad spectrum of difficulties for various kind of players. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

[mikeymoonshine]

For me the difficulty in both DA games was greatly affected by the character I chose, the party build I had and whether or not I bothered to use things like tactics, runes, potion making ect. As well as whether or not you use the whole party and plan out your attacks. 

 

My first Origins playthrough was quite challenging on normal but once I got the hang of it I could usually play it on nightmare with little trouble. I didn't play DA2 on nightmare much because I hated how FF worked, there just wasn't enough space to manoeuvre your party and controlling them was a lot more difficult. 

Even so, one playthrough I did with a Rogue Assassin Hawke was quite easy, even on nightmare. I had Merrill, Aveline and Isabela as my party and I didn't even need Anders. Aveline took the damage, Hawke could take out the more challenging enemy NPC's very easily, Merrill could deal with the minor enemies and provide additional damage with AOE's and Isabella helped anyone who was struggling.  

 

Other party builds made it harder and I usually needed Anders as well as generally just playing on hard and not nightmare. I found Assassin in DA2 to be similar to playing as an Arcane Warrior in Origins, the spec was almost to useful. 

[rocsage]

there has to be a casual mode.

when in doubt, mana clash/charmeleon's breath.

[iheartbob]

I found Origins to be difficult on normal during my very first play through as well, but that was because it was the first time I had played an action adventure RPG in years, much less on a console for the first time, and I was unfamiliar with basic game mechanics not to mention tactics. I was also playing as a class that I generally do not play now because it's just not my thing (warrior).

 

I'm sure with the aid of online guides, character builds, etc. the game will be manageable. I've completed Origins 4 times on hard mode, my last as an archer. By the end of Origins and into Awakening it was so easy on hard because of the build I had going that Hard suddenly felt like Easy.

 

So I'm sure it will be fine once you play the game and get used to everything.

 

I am curious as to how it will all work without the aid of a spirit healer/general healing spells this time around. I've gotten quite used to using a spirit healer in both games so that's my own personal concern. But I'm not so concerned as to think it'll affect my enjoyment of the game. It's just going to force me to play a little differently.

[NedPepper]

Wait a second... how was DA2 easier to learn and adapt to than DA:O?

I'm talking about playing on Normal for DA;O and DA 2.  The gameplay mechanics are much simpler in DA:2.  It plays crisper and more like an action game.  Much less worry about tactics.   You also have to go really out of your way to screw up the leveling up process.  It pretty much spells it out.  In Origins, if you didn't know what you were doing, you could really turn yourself and your companions completely useless with bad builds.  I think that's the biggest problem with Origins.  For people new to this type of game, you can screw up your entire party with a bad build. Even if you let the game autolevel up itself, Morrigan, for example, is not as effective as if you build her up with the right combos.

I can only speak for myself naturally, but Origins takes a bit more strategic thinking.  DA 2, you just mash away.  I probably died only a couple times playing DA 2, and that was usually because I ignored a mage on the map.  I felt like I never even used my injury kits.  I'm not saying Origins is that much harder , but you do have to play smarter and it takes more patience figuring out HOW to play.

Look how DA 2 starts and remember how the devs marketed it.  You just jump right in and go.  "Awesome button" and all that jazz.  And it's true. It's just an easier game.  

And I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, really.  I think it means people didn't quit playing after "Ostagar", so to speak.

[theflyingzamboni]

I don't think it will be a problem. Easy mode in BioWare games is always pretty much auto-win mode. Learn a bit about about what abilities are useful and always keep up-to-date with your equipment. I tried easy mode in DA:O recently when I was trying to rush through a section of the game. I controlled my main character (mage) almost exclusively, just cycling through attack spells, and let everyone else do whatever they wanted. I didn't even have anything but the default tactics turned on, so the AI was as dumb as could be. After a bunch of battles, including mini-bosses and bosses, I only had someone go down once.

I realize that people have different skill levels in games, but if you just take good build advice and use the best equipment, most of the time you cannot lose. Literally cannot.

[theflyingzamboni]

I'm talking about playing on Normal for DA;O and DA 2.  The gameplay mechanics are much simpler in DA:2.  It plays crisper and more like an action game.  Much less worry about tactics.   You also have to go really out of your way to screw up the leveling up process.  It pretty much spells it out.  In Origins, if you didn't know what you were doing, you could really turn yourself and your companions completely useless with bad builds.  I think that's the biggest problem with Origins.  For people new to this type of game, you can screw up your entire party with a bad build. Even if you let the game autolevel up itself, Morrigan, for example, is not as effective as if you build her up with the right combos.

I can only speak for myself naturally, but Origins takes a bit more strategic thinking.  DA 2, you just mash away.  I probably died only a couple times playing DA 2, and that was usually because I ignored a mage on the map.  I felt like I never even used my injury kits.  I'm not saying Origins is that much harder , but you do have to play smarter and it takes more patience figuring out HOW to play.

Look how DA 2 starts and remember how the devs marketed it.  You just jump right in and go.  "Awesome button" and all that jazz.  And it's true. It's just an easier game.  

And I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, really.  I think it means people didn't quit playing after "Ostagar", so to speak.

And yet Nightmare FF and Hunter/Assassin 10 minute stealth animation invincibility frames made it more frustrating and tedious than DA:O's Nightmare mode could ever hope to be. I always play Nightmare, so the first time I played DA:O it was pretty difficult, and I felt great satisfaction when I beat it.. The second time I played a nuclear mage and kept having to make sure I hadn't lowered the difficulty by accident. The first time I played DA2 only slightly less difficult than DA:O, but required way more tedium to avoid FF deaths, and when I beat it all I felt was relief that it was over. In a way it was "harder." The second time I played it I actually did lower the difficulty to Hard, because **** that ****. It is incredible how easy DA2 is when you don't have to worry about being your own worst enemy. I think part of their marketing was that it was never meant to be played on Nightmare.

[mikeymoonshine]

And yet Nightmare FF and Hunter/Assassin 10 minute stealth animation invincibility frames made it more frustrating and tedious than DA:O's Nightmare mode could ever hope to be. I always play Nightmare, so the first time I played DA:O it was pretty difficult, and I felt great satisfaction when I beat it.. The second time I played a nuclear mage and kept having to make sure I hadn't lowered the difficulty by accident. The first time I played DA2 only slightly less difficult than DA:O, but required way more tedium to avoid FF deaths, and when I beat it all I felt was relief that it was over. In a way it was "harder." The second time I played it I actually did lower the difficulty to Hard, because **** that ****. It is incredible how easy DA2 is when you don't have to worry about being your own worst enemy. I think part of their marketing was that it was never meant to be played on Nightmare.

 

That was exactly the same problem I had. I just didn't enjoy DA2 on nightmare, it was an annoying chore. 

[AlanC9]

I can only speak for myself naturally, but Origins takes a bit more strategic thinking.  DA 2, you just mash away.  I probably died only a couple times playing DA 2, and that was usually because I ignored a mage on the map.  I felt like I never even used my injury kits.  I'm not saying Origins is that much harder , but you do have to play smarter and it takes more patience figuring out HOW to play.
Look how DA 2 starts and remember how the devs marketed it.  You just jump right in and go.  "Awesome button" and all that jazz.  And it's true. It's just an easier game.  

Interesting. This is pretty much the opposite of my experience. On hard or better I found that DA2 required more strategic thought, particularly WRT build and party synergies. (Any lower and there's no challenge in either game, of course.) Obviously some DAO strategies involving terrain didn't work anymore, but I never used them anyway since DAO was easy enough without them.

[Battlebloodmage]

EA releases P2W DLC package, problem solved.

[Reaverwind]

Having been gaming since the '80s I have to say that todays "Hard" modes are comparable to the only mode you had back then "normal".    So saying that things will be tougher in DA:I than they were in DA:O will still mean its likely still going to be easier than games were 30 years ago.  

 

That said, I wouldn't worry.   There is still likely going to be an easy mode for you as well.   

 

I always wondered why games dropped in difficulty so much over time, myself.   Then one day I heard about how most people don't finish a game they play.   People mistake learning curve as difficulty.   If more people realized you aren't going to be 'leet' on their first playthrough and took the time to learn through the curve, maybe difficulty settings wouldn't have dropped over the years. 

 

I tend to relish my first play through of a game starting on highest difficulty setting.   Subsequent playthroughs will never ever be as hard.

 

You're assuming that players want to play through again - many do not. 

[Chiramu]

I wish difficulty is more than add damage and HP. I find that method of making things more "difficult" so boring, the old games spiked so hard in the difficulties. On Normal in Origins you kill some things with one hit then one mob kills you with one shot... The same for number 2. I wish the difficulty evened out a bit and didn't spike so hard. 

[NedPepper]

And yet Nightmare FF and Hunter/Assassin 10 minute stealth animation invincibility frames made it more frustrating and tedious than DA:O's Nightmare mode could ever hope to be. I always play Nightmare, so the first time I played DA:O it was pretty difficult, and I felt great satisfaction when I beat it.. The second time I played a nuclear mage and kept having to make sure I hadn't lowered the difficulty by accident. The first time I played DA2 only slightly less difficult than DA:O, but required way more tedium to avoid FF deaths, and when I beat it all I felt was relief that it was over. In a way it was "harder." The second time I played it I actually did lower the difficulty to Hard, because **** that ****. It is incredible how easy DA2 is when you don't have to worry about being your own worst enemy. I think part of their marketing was that it was never meant to be played on Nightmare.

I've heard the Nightmare difficulty is a grind for DA2.  I never played it on Nightmare.  I was speaking more along the lines of first time playing both games on Normal difficulty.  (And neither are overly difficult on Normal for people who know how to play these games, which was my point.)  Origins was also made more difficult in some cases by simply not working correctly. Sometimes buttons wouldn't trigger  (at least on 360) or the old slow shuffle while not attacking animation. There were also less enemies in Origins, and, to me at least, you had to be more selective in going about the battle.   DA2 was made challenging by the sheer number of mobs coming at you. But Nightmare is Nightmare for a reason on both games.  It's made for people who want that intense challenge. I'm too old for that much stress. 

[RedIntifada]

Combat in DA:2 was "harder" not in the sense that it was more tactical, it was just more "unfair." In DA:O you could see enemies from a distance, organise ambushes, choke holds etc (all the stuff you couldn't do in DA:2).

 

With DA2 you could never analyse the playing field to conserve your resources etc, enemies would spawn all over the place so you were always flanked. Your mages and other low armor always ended up right next to where new enemies would spawn, so you spent all your time having your team crazily running around the battle field.

 

The other advantage with DA:O combat over DA:2 is that because characters could be customized you could have a varied team with a fighting chance on higher difficulties. With DA2 the only character who could be sword and shield (i.e. the only really real tank) was Aveline, if you didn't like her and you weren't a tank too bad. You couldn't even mediate the difficulty by putting mages in armor. To enter the deep roads with a rogue and wanting Bethany to join the Grey Wardens was supper difficult because it meant having Bethany, Anders and Varric ie. 3 weak armor long range fighters.
 

That being said I still completed the game that way on hard with a deep satisfaction. I think it is a mistake to think you can separate difficulty from story. Challenges are meant to make you feel somethings. The Inquestion should be difficult to lead (whatever your skill level) because overcoming odds in the story is emotionally stimulated by having the same difficulty overcoming things in game. Some areas are meant to be too tough to be successful in early on in the game, if you don't actually have to go through the process of making your character strong enough in game, and can have early victories, you aren't getting the story in the way it is meant to be experienced.

It is why horror games are so much more frightening then horror movies, because you can actually die!  

[Revan Reborn]

Combat in DA:2 was "harder" not in the sense that it was more tactical, it was just more "unfair." In DA:O you could see enemies from a distance, organise ambushes, choke holds etc (all the stuff you couldn't do in DA:2).

 

With DA2 you could never analyse the playing field to conserve your resources etc, enemies would spawn all over the place so you were always flanked. Your mages and other low armor always ended up right next to where new enemies would spawn, so you spent all your time having your team crazily running around the battle field.

 

The other advantage with DA:O combat over DA:2 is that because characters could be customized you could have a varied team with a fighting chance on higher difficulties. With DA2 the only character who could be sword and shield (i.e. the only really real tank) was Aveline, if you didn't like her and you weren't a tank too bad. You couldn't even mediate the difficulty by putting mages in armor. To enter the deep roads with a rogue and wanting Bethany to join the Grey Wardens was supper difficult because it meant having Bethany, Anders and Varric ie. 3 weak armor long range fighters.
 

That being said I still completed the game that way on hard with a deep satisfaction. I think it is a mistake to think you can separate difficulty from story. Challenges are meant to make you feel somethings. The Inquestion should be difficult to lead (whatever your skill level) because overcoming odds in the story is emotionally stimulated by having the same difficulty overcoming things in game. Some areas are meant to be too tough to be successful in early on in the game, if you don't actually have to go through the process of making your character strong enough in game, and can have early victories, you aren't getting the story in the way it is meant to be experienced.

It is why horror games are so much more frightening then horror movies, because you can actually die!  

While I definitely see your point, some in the community really are just solely interested in the story and character development. I personally love a challenge and have completed the entire ME trilogy on Insanity while also playing the DA games on the harder difficulties. Not everybody is interested in such a hardcore experience, however, and I can respect that. Whether it's a time issue, or not interested in the learning curve, BioWare should be as accommodating as they possibly can be.

 

What should be "difficult" for the Inquisitor are the choices he/she needs to make, not necessarily how much hp this ogre in front of him/her has. Either way, it's been my personal experience BioWare games have always been a tad on the too easy side. I doubt this will change too much with DAI, as BioWare will make sure even the most inexperienced novice will be able to plow his/her way through the experience.

[RedIntifada]

While I definitely see your point, some in the community really are just solely interested in the story and character development. I personally love a challenge and have completed the entire ME trilogy on Insanity while also playing the DA games on the harder difficulties. Not everybody is interested in such a hardcore experience, however, and I can respect that. Whether it's a time issue, or not interested in the learning curve, BioWare should be as accommodating as they possibly can be.

 

What should be "difficult" for the Inquisitor are the choices he/she needs to make, not necessarily how much hp this ogre in front of him/her has. Either way, it's been my personal experience BioWare games have always been a tad on the too easy side. I doubt this will change too much with DAI, as BioWare will make sure even the most inexperienced novice will be able to plow his/her way through the experience.

 

I think bioware should be accomodating, to a point... however that doesn't mean open for everything to the point that the product they produce cease to represent what they have in mind. Part of difficult choices is the consequences they have on your character, Awakening was a perfect example of this, you could spend your money upgrading your personal armor, or you can upgrade the keep to make things safer for your troops. If your character's combat is never made more difficult then of course you are going to invest all your gold into the keep.

On normal mode... let alone easy, it is entirely possible to win DA:O and DA:2 without controlling your entire team, let alone having top down planned orders etc. i.e. not using a majority of the tools available to help you win. So I am not sure on what basis if players are using all the controls available to  them, can they say it is too difficult. Imagine playing a Batman game and saying... it was so hard, I couldn't win it without pressing the punch and kick buttons? They are part of the game, use them!

In terms of ME difficulty, the main problem is it was distorted by bringing in an experienced character to the later games. Starting on level 1 on insanity in ME3 is much more difficult then starting on level 60 (or even 30).

 

[cjones91]

As long as it isn't cheap difficulty I'll have no problems with it.

[Revan Reborn]

I think bioware should be accomodating, to a point... however that doesn't mean open for everything to the point that the product they produce cease to represent what they have in mind. Part of difficult choices is the consequences they have on your character, Awakening was a perfect example of this, you could spend your money upgrading your personal armor, or you can upgrade the keep to make things safer for your troops. If your character's combat is never made more difficult then of course you are going to invest all your gold into the keep.

On normal mode... let alone easy, it is entirely possible to win DA:O and DA:2 without controlling your entire team, let alone having top down planned orders etc. i.e. not using a majority of the tools available to help you win. So I am not sure on what basis if players are using all the controls available to  them, can they say it is too difficult. Imagine playing a Batman game and saying... it was so hard, I couldn't win it without pressing the punch and kick buttons? They are part of the game, use them!

In terms of ME difficulty, the main problem is it was distorted by bringing in an experienced character to the later games. Starting on level 1 on insanity in ME3 is much more difficult then starting on level 60 (or even 30).

 

Not everyone necessarily likes to micromanage. Some don't want to play DA as if it's an RTS or they are fulfilling every role in an MMO. That's part of the reason BioWare made the combat system they did in DA2, which was successful on consoles. It was just trash on PC and drastically different from DAO. Some just want their party members to support them while the focus their efforts on their main character. I'm not saying BioWare should eliminate their vision of how the game should be played. They just shouldn't necessarily force people to play a certain way if they don't want to. What makes a great game is the freedom to really do what you want and play how you want. That's why titles such as Skyrim and GTA V sell as incredibly well as they do. Freedom.

 

That is true to a certain point on Mass Effect. Ultimately, however, it's more of a shooter than it is an RPG, so even that really only carries but so far. The first Mass Effect is extremely difficult on the hardest setting if you aren't level 60, but that's largely because the shooting mechanics were intrinsically tied to the RPG aspect. BioWare largely eliminated that with ME2 and the RPG side of things was just a supplement.

[Steelcan]

I'm all for a nice wide range of difficulties, the ME and to a lesser degree DA games aren't very consistent with their difficulty scale.  In ME1 it was an issue that hardcore and insanity were nigh impossible at lower levels, and not because they were challenging, they were just tedious, having to shoot the same pirate for half an hour because his health is absurdly high and your weapons are crap.

 

This is better in DA games where the scale of Casual and Normal are fairly consitent, but then they jump wildly in difficulty.

 

 

I wouldn't say I'm a glutton for punishment in games, ie Dark Souls isn't my thing, but I do like being able to play on a truly challenging difficulty.  Perhaps DA:I should have optional modifiers ala the Skulls in Halo.

[Ajna]

I remember the very first post I made when I returned to BSN earlier in the year, it was on a thread very much like this one. Many people posted there, the elitists were very vocal and not helpful/empathetic in any way, but there were also MANY posters all suffering from various medical conditions who literally could not physically play on higher difficulties, it seems people either don't think of others having that limitation with games, they know and don't care because the world revolves around them anyway, or they forget. I'm with the easy moders, I have so many gamer friends with physical limitations and to me, elitist comments regarding this topic are like a red rag to a bull that make me rage above everything else.

[Ajna]

Now I've got that out of the way, for the record, I play Bioware games for the story, characters, world, atmsophere...challenging combat is secondary in my preference.

[AlanC9]

I'm not particularly looking for challenging combat either. But I am looking for non-dull combat, and that generally requires at least some difficulty.

[Ajna]

I am worried about this as well. It will just be our luck this great comes out and is too hard for the "non-gamer" crowd that follows and plays DA games. Let's hope it's not as bad as what we imagine.

A gamer is a gamer hun, I'm a gamer and so are you, elitists that throw around the "non gamer" tag make me sick...not to mention incredibly angry.

[Mathias]

Well - here goes my elitist gamer comment. 

 

I didn't find DA:O or DA:2 difficult on nightmare at all and I look forward to an increased difficulty (though I'd actually prefer it to come from game states like decreased morale - or diseased troops - or something you caused)

 

Yeah that's pretty elitist. Your definition of difficult must be different from other people.