104 réponses à ce sujet

[Antmarch456]

First run-through on the trilogy, I always go paragon (with a few exceptions) because I'm a good boy.

After hearing more about being a Renegade, I started doing my 2nd playthrough. By Renegade, I ment on your personality and views towards some things in the game.

I've always wanted to try to be fully Renegade, but I could never bear myself to do such a thing, seeing as how I've bonded with Tali, Garrus, etc on my previous playthroughs. That is, until I thought of a good background that I'm interested to try for a fully-renegade walkthrough: a racist Shepard who would protect human interests (similiar to Cerberus, but not as extreme as their standards). This fits well with sabotaging the genophage and killing off the quarians.


What were your thoughts when you first did a Renegade playthrough?

[Excella Gionne]

I can't full renegade, nor do I like the scars.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I don't like the scars, so I pay the 50,000 platinum in ME2.

 

I haven't gone full renegade, ever. The worst was 80/20. I'm usually 60/40.

[SporkFu]

Check it out. Commander Shepard, ME2 - looked renegade, acted renegade, not renegade. Pushed a guy through a window, set a krogan on fire, kinda dumb, sure, not renegade. You got Conrad Verner, joined cerberus, impersonated a spectre, slow yes, unstable maybe, but he got a bunch of kids off earth when the reapers hit, that ain't renegade. You went full renegade, man... Never go full renegade. You don't buy that? Ask Saren, 2183, Battle of the Citadel - went full renegade, blew his brains all over the council chamber.

 

Everybody knows you never go full renegade.

[Antmarch456]

I can't full renegade, nor do I like the scars.

  

I don't like the scars, so I pay the 50,000 platinum in ME2.
 
I haven't gone full renegade, ever. The worst was 80/20. I'm usually 60/40.

Kinda surprised. I thought the scars made my Renegade-Psycho-Shepard seem more badass.

[ZipZap2000]

I cant do full renegade it turns Shepard into a real dick and ME1 it's unpredictable what you might say if you pick the renegade option, it could range from the exact same thing as a paragon might say to shouting at Liara in front of the entire squad.

[Allison_Lightning]

I always cheat and do a few paragon things along the way. I can't and won't shoot Wrex- my next playthrough will cure the genophage, paragon/renegade or not. Often caustic, and a lot of fun although there are moments especially in the third game where I thought my renegade, Zoe Shepard was unhinged- like when she was talking to the clone. It's all fun and games until I wonder why anyone would let this person near anything that can cause physical harm- that's where renegade gets silly. Also, being mean just to be mean and spiteful except where there are clear exceptions because the writers liked a particular character.

[Mordokai]

Full blown renegade is an idiot, a hypocrite, a downright bastard and a borderline psycho. In short, the worst representation of humanity. So no, I don't play renegade, though I actually like the scars on Shepard.

 

Renegon is my favourite way to go, though. Something like 60/40, or 70/30 max. Makes for an interesting mix of "I'll do whatever it needs to be done", without the stupidity of full blown renegades.

[Farangbaa]

I always cheat and do a few paragon things along the way. I can't and won't shoot Wrex- my next playthrough will cure the genophage, paragon/renegade or not. Often caustic, and a lot of fun although there are moments especially in the third game where I thought my renegade, Zoe Shepard was unhinged- like when she was talking to the clone. It's all fun and games until I wonder why anyone would let this person near anything that can cause physical harm- that's where renegade gets silly. Also, being mean just to be mean and spiteful except where there are clear exceptions because the writers liked a particular character.

 

You can go intimidate Wrex you know? No need for a paragon action there.

 

But full renegade Shepard is this:

 

Full blown renegade is an idiot, a hypocrite, a downright bastard and a borderline psycho. In short, the worst representation of humanity.

[themikefest]

There wasn't enough renegade interrupts in ME3. I like playing full renegade. I did a trilogy run and save as many as possible minus the council. I did a full renegade playthrough having as many die/killed as possible.

 

I did a full paragon playthrough saving everyone minus the council and did a full paragon having everyone die/killed.  A paragon, depending on one's playthrough, can do more damaged than a renegade

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 In ME1 & 2, this is what Shepard's morality paths look like to me....

 

(*BioWare writing team perspective)

 

Paragon: this is the diplomatic stance for Shepard to take...

Neutral: this is the non-commital stance for Shepard to take...

Renegade: h'okay guys... let's make this option the rudest, crassest, most asinine possible stance for Shepard and HAVE A BLAAAAAAASSSSSST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

 

Rachni Queen? STAY DEAD THIS TIME!!!

Wrex? THROW HIM IN TEH SWAMP!!!!!!!

Council? SCREW THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!!! REVENGE!!!!!!!!

Squadmate? SHUT THE [bleep] UP!!!!!!!

 

YEAHHHHHH!!!!!

 

Oh, and we'll also call it the "pragmatic" path afterwards despite not being pragmatic at all.

[ZipZap2000]

 Paraphrasing here but

 

Renegade Shep: You're my pilot! If I want a damn pep talk from you i'll ask! Until then just fly the damn ship!

 

Me: Presses xbox button, returns to xbox home, reloads the game and picks the paragon option.

[von uber]

Eh, the problem is there is virtually no downside to being a Paragon. That's the issue with renegade - it's too easily conflated with psychopath as opposed to the 'instant win' paragon scout leader.

 

Both should have plusses and minuses, the world is grey not blue.

[cap and gown]

I've always wanted to try to be fully Renegade, but I could never bear myself to do such a thing, seeing as how I've bonded with Tali, Garrus, etc on my previous playthroughs. That is, until I thought of a good background that I'm interested to try for a fully-renegade walkthrough: a racist Shepard who would protect human interests (similiar to Cerberus, but not as extreme as their standards). This fits well with sabotaging the genophage and killing off the quarians.
 

 

You are limited by the script in your role-playing options. A xenophobic Shepard is possible in ME1 because the script allows it. Xenophobic Shep is not really possible in ME2 and especially in ME3 because the script does not allow it. (BTW, offing the quarians in favor of the geth doesn't fit a xenophobic Shepard anymore than offing the geth in favor of the quarians since they are both alien.)

 

What you need to do is look at the range of possibilities the script allows and then construct a story that fits within those parameters. I will give two examples.

 

Tatayna Shepard was a colonist/ruthless. Her theme was "the mission must succeed no matter the cost." She shot Wrex on Virmire because he was threatening the mission, but thought Kirahe's idea of throwing him in the swamp was over the top. She killed Rana Thanoptis because she was afraid she would run off and tell Saren what Shepard was up to. She saved the cure data because it didn't make sense to just throw the data away, even though she agreed with the genophage. She ended up shooting Mordin because she wanted Salarian support in the war against the Reapers and because she felt the Krogan were a threat. She sided with Cerberus (as much as the script allowed) but then broke with Cerberus after the Suicide Mission (handed the base over to Cerberus) when she found out what they were doing on project Overlord. (She sent David to Grissom Academy.) That last part was a concession to fact that by ME3 Shepard has to turn against Cerberus, and by saving Overlord for last I was able to construct a reason for why she broke with Cerberus and handed the Normandy over to the Alliance. She destroyed the Heretics, but made peace on Rannoch. Overall she was a renegon.

 

Morwen Shepard was a colonist/sole survivor. Her main theme was a revulsion against slavery and playing god. Her motto might be summed up as "defending the right to self-determination." She started out somewhat xenophobic in ME1 but got over that by time she reached Ilos. (This is demanded by the script since xenophobic Shepard doesn't really exist in ME2 & 3). She was never pro-Krogan, but she was definitely anti-genophage because she felt the Salarians were playing god with the fate of the Krogan. Wrex survived Virmire (she got his family armor, her first mission with an alien) and she allowed Padok Wiks to go through with the cure. OTOH, she was very anti-Cerberus (sole survivor background) and destroyed the Collector Base. She was also anti-AI and decided to hand the geth over to the Alliance (never activated Legion) and just yesterday oversaw the destruction of the geth. Overall she was a paragade.

[Basher of Glory]

For me it's the same problem as "going evil" in AD&D-games, such as NWN (1+2).

 

The "evil" options are - in my view - downright silly, at least mostly.

 

Treating my squad-mates like slaves?

Assisting the reapers by doing their work, e.g. hampering the genophage, killing the Quarians etc. ?

Confronting everyone and his mother in a most aggressive, arrogant way?

 

Although I love most of the renegade interrupts (e.g. Kai-Leng or against this Quarian admiral) and find some renegade actions absolutely justified (e.g. interrupting repeatedly when making contact to Leviathan through his "device" and Dr. Ann Bryson), I simply could not go 100% this way, because I would feel stupid.

[Jorji Costava]

My view on renegade Shepard is the same as my view on paragon Shepard; both are mish-mashes of ideas that should have been kept separately from each other. Renegade is a combination of a moral view (ends justify the means), a political view (pro-human nationalism), and a personality type (the "ultimate badass!"; incidentally, it's this third aspect that's largely responsible for the more outright sociopathic elements of Renegade IMO). But there's no reason at all why these three things have to be joined at the hip.

In a vacuum, it makes sense to be both consequentialist morally and cosmopolitan politically (heck, utilitarianism is routinely criticized on the grounds that it demands too much impartiality). Similarly, there's no reason why pro-human nationalists always have to be people who recognize no moral constraints at all on the achievement of their goals. So in my view, playing as straight renegade or straight paragon closes off a lot of interesting possibilities, and incentivizing strict obedience to the P/R system needlessly constrains roleplaying.

[Dabrikishaw]

I have as much fun playing pure renegade as I do pure paragon. It doesn't bother me.

[Reorte]

I tried a full Renegade playthrough of ME1 once. I'd intended to carry it on through but didn't get far into 2 before giving up. I hated that Shepard. It was mostly a "see the differences and lines I've not seen before" run though, not tried it with an actual characterised Shepard.

[Reorte]

For me it's the same problem as "going evil" in AD&D-games, such as NWN (1+2).
 
The "evil" options are - in my view - downright silly, at least mostly.
 
Treating my squad-mates like slaves?
Assisting the reapers by doing their work, e.g. hampering the genophage, killing the Quarians etc. ?
Confronting everyone and his mother in a most aggressive, arrogant way?
 
Although I love most of the renegade interrupts (e.g. Kai-Leng or against this Quarian admiral) and find some renegade actions absolutely justified (e.g. interrupting repeatedly when making contact to Leviathan through his "device" and Dr. Ann Bryson), I simply could not go 100% this way, because I would feel stupid.

Decent game design should have some options to be stupid in both directions. If a good chunk of the game invovles trying to get people to help you out then IMO the balance should lie more, but not completely, on the Paragon side.

I hope the next game best rewards a well-balanced protagonist.

[Basher of Glory]

In same cases I can't see a "renegade" stance. As example: When they got Javik, Shep is called to the cargo room and has to decide between (analogously)

 

a ) "he is no threat"

 

b ) "we can't be cautious enough".

 

If she says the latter, she obeys to the Alliance-protocols, but nevertheless, is "renegade". Shouldn't it be the other way round?

 

This and many comparable situations in conversations are not really applicable to make the entire "paragon / renegade"-system more transparent.

[Han Shot First]

 

Renegon is my favourite way to go, though. Something like 60/40, or 70/30 max. Makes for an interesting mix of "I'll do whatever it needs to be done", without the stupidity of full blown renegades.

 

Paragade or renegon are the best ways to go, IMO. Either one feels like a pragmatic sort, whereas full paragon Shep seems too idealistic and self-righteous and maxed out RenShep comes across as a mentally unhinged jerkass.

[DeathScepter]

Wrong thread, stupid post

[KaiserShep]

Renegon is my favorite. Depending on how you go about it, it's mostly a personality change, at least in ME3. It's a bit harder to do in ME1 and ME2 without doing some pretty lousy things to people, but ME1 gets the benefit of having a more straightforward intimidation bar, so you are freer in terms of dialogue if you can manage to max that out, which is easy enough to do without making some decisions that you'd rather not.

 

I don't like playing full Paragon, because ParaShep is a total sap, but I really hate ReneShep. If I had to really put my finger on what it was that I really hated the most about playing full Renegade, it's the fact that this reprehensible human being is not received as such no matter what you do, and anyone who really disapproves of Bastard Shepard's neglect dies due to loyalty deficiency. At least in DA:O, playing an evil bastard was fun because the other characters responded to you accordingly and hated you for it and would probably just leave your group, as they should. Of course, the whole bribe gift system can seriously undermine this, but I always opted out of taking advantage of it.

 

I'm always hoping that the next Mass Effect would implement something similar to Dragon Age's approval or even friendship system, so there can at least be a greater level of variety in the way the characters respond to the PC, making them seem more alive. This, along with dumping the morality system entirely, I think, would be a good thing.

[Jorji Costava]

I don't like playing full Paragon, because ParaShep is a total sap, but I really hate ReneShep. If I had to really put my finger on what it was that I really hated the most about playing full Renegade, it's the fact that this reprehensible human being is not received as such no matter what you do, and anyone who really disapproves of Bastard Shepard's neglect dies due to loyalty deficiency.

 

Incidentally, I think this plays into why no Paragon decisions ever blow up in your face during the course of the game. Sure you can always do the 'right' thing and get results that are just as good as the most hard-hearted Renegade would get, but you can also do all sorts of sociopathic things (punching al-Jilani, recruiting Morinth, the renegade resolution to the Anoleis subplot on Noveria, etc.) and suffer no consequences to yourself. The developers probably figured, "Hey, both sides are getting what they want, so what's the problem?"

 

If you were conceiving of the P/R system as primarily a morality system, then renegades do get pretty screwed, because as it turns out, it's never really necessary to do the Hard Thing to Get the Job Done. But if you thought of Paragon or Renegade primarily as vehicles by which you could upchuck your id onto the world of Mass Effect, then the balance between the two does look a lot more even.

 

Not that I'm trying to defend the system; I've made my feelings on it pretty clear upthread. I'm just trying to come up with a plausible explanation of why it turned out the way it did.