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Renegade Shepard - What are your thoughts on it?


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#26
Probe Away

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Check it out. Commander Shepard, ME2 - looked renegade, acted renegade, not renegade. Pushed a guy through a window, set a krogan on fire, kinda dumb, sure, not renegade. You got Conrad Verner, joined cerberus, impersonated a spectre, slow yes, unstable maybe, but he got a bunch of kids off earth when the reapers hit, that ain't renegade. You went full renegade, man... Never go full renegade. You don't buy that? Ask Saren, 2183, Battle of the Citadel - went full renegade, blew his brains all over the council chamber.

Everybody knows you never go full renegade.


It makes me sad that either no one got your Tropic Thunder reference, or no one appreciated just how awesome it was.

I lol'd.
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#27
in it for the lolz

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I like playing Renegade more then Paragon. 

 

Paragon Shepards sound and act like massive cowards.



#28
SporkFu

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It makes me sad that either no one got your Tropic Thunder reference, or no one appreciated just how awesome it was.

I lol'd.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed. :)

#29
Karlone123

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Renegon is my favorite. Depending on how you go about it, it's mostly a personality change, at least in ME3. It's a bit harder to do in ME1 and ME2 without doing some pretty lousy things to people, but ME1 gets the benefit of having a more straightforward intimidation bar, so you are freer in terms of dialogue if you can manage to max that out, which is easy enough to do without making some decisions that you'd rather not.

 

I don't like playing full Paragon, because ParaShep is a total sap, but I really hate ReneShep. If I had to really put my finger on what it was that I really hated the most about playing full Renegade, it's the fact that this reprehensible human being is not received as such no matter what you do, and anyone who really disapproves of Bastard Shepard's neglect dies due to loyalty deficiency. At least in DA:O, playing an evil bastard was fun because the other characters responded to you accordingly and hated you for it and would probably just leave your group, as they should. Of course, the whole bribe gift system can seriously undermine this, but I always opted out of taking advantage of it.

 

I'm always hoping that the next Mass Effect would implement something similar to Dragon Age's approval or even friendship system, so there can at least be a greater level of variety in the way the characters respond to the PC, making them seem more alive. This, along with dumping the morality system entirely, I think, would be a good thing.

 

I am hoping ME4 is more in-depth with relationships, and how the player acts towards people and choices made. Relationships in the ME trilogy were mostly pre-set (aside from romances) with the Shepard being "close" with his/her crew.

 

As for the post, I prefer playing a practical Shepard which falls under Renegade, I do like being able to act btash, off-standish with and not giving much care for other people's feelings.



#30
Grieving Natashina

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I had a lot of fun playing a Paragade in ME1-2.  I was kind to the helpless, and to my friends.  I was ruthless towards my enemies, and I was a jerk to the Council any chance I could get.  I was also able to balance a lot more decisions in a way that felt more natural to me.  Full paragon (which I did my first time around,) tends to be too goody-two-shoes and too idealistic.  Full renegade just felt a little psycho after a point.  However, with my current Shep's background (Spacer/Sole Survivor) paragade fit her very well.  Especially since I went fully paragade after Virmire, but I still had plenty of Paragon points to convince Saren to die as himself.

 

In ME2 it was even more fun to balance acts such as zapping the mechanic during the Archangel quest with hugging Tali.  Being jerks to the Council (and I'll take my Spectre status back, thank you,) the renegade end to Jacob's loyalty mission, and showing patience with Conrad just made sense for the way I was picturing my Shep.

 

 However, that hasn't worked as well for me in ME3 so far.  Sure, there are some good Renegade options and interrupts in there, (bite me, Dalatrass) and a few practical ones (no Javik, leave the memory shard alone,) that I do enjoy.  It just seems that most of the renegade decisions have been rather Stupid Evil to me and counterproductive to fighting the war in many respects.  I haven't taken many this time around, mainly because it seems like Shep is shooting themselves in the foot more often than not.

 

Just my two cents in relation to my current ME character.  


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#31
OPM_Lunacy

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Rather cool, would be nice if my eyes also turned red when I acted like a badass :P
 



#32
Probe Away

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Rather cool, would be nice if my eyes also turned red when I acted like a badass :P


But they do...!

#33
Grieving Natashina

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But they do...!

I was thinking more of a brighter glow, or a large flash as you hit the renegade interrupt.



#34
Probe Away

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I was thinking more of a brighter glow, or a large flash as you hit the renegade interrupt.


Ah, like a Cylon's back during sex. Gotcha.

#35
Farangbaa

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My weirdest morality playthrough was probably the one I went all renegade in every conversation, except for the big decisions (and I think I charmed Qu'inn on Noveria).

 

The results of this renegade Shep with a good heart? Nearly full paragon bar. 



#36
elrofrost

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In ME2 some of the Renegade choices are  just plain evil. But in ME3, that very different. You can be all Renegade in ME3 and still be a cool guy. In ME2 you are a major -hole.

 

I mean com'on choosing  Mornith over Samara isn't something Shepard would do. Shepard isn't Sith, he's Shepard. 

 

Usually I end ME2 with a good mix of Renegade and Paragon. Paragon is a little higher, usually. But not always. I'm a firm believer that a shot in the head solves everything. ;)

 

In ME3 it's usually 2/3 Paragon and the rest Renegade. The only place where my Shepard goes full Renegade is on Omega (the Omega DLC). just for the scene with Aria at the end. Plus the dialog is better playing that DLC as Renegade, IMHO.



#37
KaiserShep

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In Omega, I love Aria's dialogue if you shut down the reactor. I don't usually do it, but I like the whole don't-f***-with-Shepard look that the PC has there.

#38
Larry-3

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I usually walk a neutral path. I have tried to be full paragon, but just cannot. It is the same with renegade, too.

 

I remember on the play-through I completed before the one I am currently on now, I had about 60 paragon, and 30 renegade. It is mainly because of the people I meet. Take Ashley Williams for example. I went to visit her in the hospital and we got into a... disagreement. She actually ask for me to move on after she argued with me on Horizon and Mars. Then she told me, "I can be mad at whatever the hell I want to be mad at!". Then their was Legion on Rannoch. He kept lying to me. I told him how I would like to help but he just keeps lying to me. His bucket-headed self looked down and away from me so my Shepard ended up face palming himself -- I would have, too. Despite being a little passive-aggressive I do try to save as many lives as I can.



#39
DuskWanderer

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In ME1, I liked playing Renegade, because it felt like a ruthless badass. However, once ME2 and ME3 came about, it felt like less of a ruthless badass and more like being really pissy. 

 

There are a few good choices for Renegade, but mostly they are just individual ones. What I really didn't like was the fact that having a pro-human agenda meant you were a renegade



#40
KaiserShep

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Yeah, but some of that pro-human stuff was pretty funny. I've posted this before, but it's a good example (requires the Council to die in ME1)

 

 

Letting the Council die is worth it for this scene alone.

 

"You're welcome. Enjoy your drinks, ladies." Good stuff.


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#41
DuskWanderer

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Yeah, but some of that pro-human stuff was pretty funny. I've posted this before, but it's a good example (requires the Council to die in ME1)

 

 

Letting the Council die is worth it for this scene alone.

 

"You're welcome. Enjoy your drinks, ladies." Good stuff.

Sheer epic. Although I wouldn't call it Renegade. Merely practical



#42
Hadeedak

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I've never played full renegade.

 

...I've never played full paragon, either. Full renegade or full paragon have a tendency to make Shepard into a boring toolbag.

 

>:3



#43
AngryFrozenWater

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This is how I look at it.

 

In ME1 paragon was the only way to fly, because renegade didn't make sense. It felt like renegade lowered your IQ in half. Renegade options felt like they were there just to be funny. In ME2 it was the other way around. Paragon Shepard more or less naively provided a way to oppose TIM. Often renegade felt better. You still were forced to work with TIM, but at least you could ventilate that you were opposed to him. In ME3 paragon Shepard felt like he/she was about to give up under the pressure of the reaper forces and deaths caused by Shepard. Renegade avoided a lot of that. At least it felt that way. It often made more sense than making Shepard feel like he/she was about to break down.



#44
fhs33721

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Full renegade Shepard? S/he is a complete monster.

The sort of monster that pours deadly acid over a helpless, trapped sentinent being. The sort of monster that let's serial killers get away without repercussions but shoots hostages because it's convenient.The sort of monster that lets you kill yourself to save your daugther just to shoot said daugther in the head right afterwards.

If you ask me full renegade Shepard deserves to be taken by the Reapers because s/he is no better than them.

 

Well at least that is what I thought about Renegade Separd in my one and only full renegade playthrough.



#45
themikefest

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 playing a full renegade Shepard can save as many as possible



#46
fhs33721

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 playing a full renegade Shepard can save as many as possible

By full renegade I mean choosing the renegade option every time and never taking the paragon interrupt. This always results in at least Miranda, Samara and Mordin dying as far as I know (none of which has to be if you take a few paragon options). Legion too, but he dies in every case.



#47
themikefest

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By full renegade I mean choosing the renegade option every time and never taking the paragon interrupt. This always results in at least Miranda, Samara and Mordin dying as far as I know (none of which has to be if you take a few paragon options). Legion too, but he dies in every case.

I've had Mordin live playing a full renegade. Just have eve dead and Wreav in charge. Samara won't die if you never recruit her. And yes about Miranda since she won't have access. A full renegade doesn't necessarily mean picking every single dialogue on the botton right.



#48
DuskWanderer

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I've had Mordin live playing a full renegade. Just have eve dead and Wreav in charge. Samara won't die if you never recruit her. And yes about Miranda since she won't have access. A full renegade doesn't necessarily mean picking every single dialogue on the botton right.

A lot of full Renegade choices are cruel merely for the sake of cruel. 



#49
SwobyJ

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An absolutely full Paragon just walks right into joining the Reapers by the end. Uniter.

An absolutely full Renegade may as well be a Reaper (in terms of enemy status). Divider.

 

(By 'absolutely', I really mean everything being lower right or lower left in the wheel.)

 

Its all relative.

 

A lot of people seem to think that going upper right and lower left in convos is full Renegade. IMO it is not. You're still welcoming of others, of opportunities, of experiences.

 

To me, a full Renegade does not give a crap about that.

 

In the end, a full Renegade only has themselves. This self may be the most powerful human/humanoid in the galaxy, possibly able to claw out of completely dark rubble by themselves.

 

To me, a full Renegade doesn't even have a romance. Maybe has a Renegade lay with Jack - I forget how that works.

 

IMO ME3 encourages players to be a little of both Paragon and Renegade, compared to previous titles, but the consequences are clear when you go *100%* either way. The Paragon goes so far as to disregard there even being a war with victory conditions. The Renegade goes so far as to do anything possible to remove the Reapers from the galaxy.

 

Most players, due to ME3's nature (compared to ME2 especially), are somewhere very in between.

 

 

Again though, its all relative. In each scenario, a Renegade does something that:

-Removes others from the equation

-Increases personal power compared to what was in his way

 

All interactions, even with innocents, work that way. And yes, a full Renegade IS a bad guy. He's not uber Sith Lord, but he can get somewhat close. Conflict makes him, and those still close to him, stronger and stronger.

Now, this probably won't be enough for the Breath Scene, but that's what MP is for I guess. Its still focused on the 'war', 'conflict', 'assets'. I'd say a 100% Renegade + MP EMS = something like this

 

Solo_Mastery_Lone_Wolf_Banner.png

 

Result? A galaxy where Shepard, Alliance, humanity, organics, etc all have much more *relative* power over the rest of the galaxy than the Paragon route. Go 100% Paragon and you've make this much more complicated galaxy with many factions and the Reapers playing a significant role. Much more power is shared and likely debated on, with Shepard-Reaper authority likely being one of the only things keeping it from falling apart into chaos.

 

Again, obviously, most people don't go entirely either way. People may make the occasional Renegade decision enough to view their Control Shepard as not 100% acquiescent of Reaper mentality. People may make the at least occasional Paragon decision enough to imagine that their Renegade Shepard was pulled out of rubble by an ally/friend instead of clawing his way out alone.

 

The way that outcomes and moralities interact is pretty interesting to me.

 

 

There is such a thing as being so close to personal opinions/familiarities/traditions/kin/etc that it damages what may be considered progress. That's what Renegade can do.

 

And there is such a thing as being so open to other opinions/unfamiliarities/information/memories/etc that it moves you away from what was a personal or shared goal. That's what Paragon can do.

 

Either way, you're rewarded, because the trilogy is largely there to allow you to play out what's in your own mind (either personally or for role play). Victory or defeat is ultimately subjective here and up for you to decide. This isn't only in the ending, but in every interaction.

 

 

The thing I wish the trilogy had more of was that when we killed off characters, that most of them would still be replaced by other new characters and ones that deferred more to Shepard's will (instead of acting more independent yet friendly with him). I wanted more showcasing of Shepard being a strong individual when Renegade. This is shown in some stuff like Wreav, but I wanted much more than that. And bits where we learn of human/Alliance/Normandy presence in the galaxy being more overtly important, instead of a shared effort of Paragon. This may have included bits like news reports and convo bits of aliens giving tributes of technology, credits, etc to the Alliance instead of keeping most of it and using it themselves in the war.

 

 

 

Basically, you really do have to be a total jerk to honestly play TOTAL Renegade. But there's always gonna be those at least few things that keep you from going TOTAL Paragon. Eventually, some things, some scenarios.. will have you giving some sort of outburst. Whether it is a Renegade Interrupt against a Quarian admiral or Kai Leng, or something more philosophical like believing the Quarians to still be the masters of the rebellious Geth machines, or whatever. Going total Renegade may be nearly impossible to bear, but only the rare player truthfully (except when just 'auto-blue-clicking') goes total Paragon. Some rebellion (ahem, RENEGADE) kicks in and keeps them from following that single track of 'goodness'. Because really, truly great solutions aren't as simple. It is appropriate that some of the best looking ME3 outcomes require at least SOME 'Renegade' decisions - ones that show that sometimes one has to be even a little (comparatively) selfish, or conflict-oriented.

 

ME1-3 itself is even a big story of rebellion against the greater order set by machines, it is important to remember. They may be bigger, more structured, more intelligent, more powerful, more manipulative - but Shepard himself is the Renegade against them (except possibly a bit at the very end) that increasingly shows them that even the Reapers aren't everything they thought they were. That any 100% view of 'good' (...or 'god') is probably illusory to some extent, and needs something to challenge, and yes, fight against it. Even if that something is a scumbag himself.


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#50
Steelcan

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there was a renegade Shep in ME3?

 

All I saw was a sociopathic murderer with the occasional one liner