All I saw was a sociopathic murderer with the occasional one liner
ME3's Shepard has a greater scale in decisions, but ME2's Shepard easily has greater opportunities to be a sociopathic murderer, and that's largely because ME2's Shepard, even ME1's, can actually show a great deal of satisfaction in the whole affair. Just look at the renegade path for Jack's loyalty mission. I mean, that line about a bullet to the head solving everything, after encouraging murdering some troubled person who would have easily been in Jack's place is just bad all around.
I think renegade was mostly poorly handled by the series, at least if compared to the pre-release statements about the morality system made by devs back in 2007. Renegade was supposed to be Jack Bauer in space rather than 'evil,' but far too often in the series it comes across as sociopathic. There are too many times when RenShep seems more like an evil jerkass than an ends-justifies-the-means type.
I think renegade was mostly poorly handled by the series, at least if compared to the pre-release statements about the morality system made by devs back in 2007. Renegade was supposed to be Jack Bauer in space rather than 'evil,' but far too often in the series it comes across as sociopathic. There are too many times when RenShep seems more like an evil jerkass than an ends-justifies-the-means type.
I'd rather envision the renegade shepard as the Miles Quaritich of Mass Effect. Not so much a uncouth rogue but rather an authoritian military hardliner that is willing to go to almost any lenght to fight for his cause with an unbreakable resolve and zealous commitment.
All I saw was a sociopathic murderer with the occasional one liner
Yes, exactly. Yet another slap in the face by ME3's derpy mechanics. I love renegade Shepard in ME1 and 2, but I cannot kill Wrex, nor can I kill Mordin. I just do not have that sociopathy in me. Legion....... The ME3 Legion is one shady fvck. I have no problem wiping out him and his derpy Geth pals.
What happened to the the Dyson Uber Geth Sphere???? I thought that was the future of the Geth.......
There are probably three different renegades in each of the second two games when you think about it. I want Renshep to be the guy who pushes an Eclipse Merc (who really deserves it) out of the window with an awesome one liner. But not the same guy who hands David over to Cerberus with tubes crammed down his throat, after listening to him scream for help for 20 mins.
Yes, exactly. Yet another slap in the face by ME3's derpy mechanics. I love renegade Shepard in ME1 and 2, but I cannot kill Wrex, nor can I kill Mordin. I just do not have that sociopathy in me.
But wait.
In ME3, killing Wrex is only Shepard's decision insofar that C-Sec is there to intervene and you can have Bailey and the other officers take him out. In any case, he gives you no choice, and it was presumed that he'd be none the wiser if you sabotaged the genophage. As for Mordin, this depends on whether or not you truly honestly believe that the genophage was the right call to make and that the Dalatrass was right. Otherwise, there would be no reason for any of this. Killing Wrex in ME1 can be much worse, because Shepard can actually express hateful comments about Wrex and the krogan, and have his corpse tossed aside. I don't think ME3's version is in any way sociopathic, because it basically revolves around how you feel about the big picture issue.
Yeah, I'm not getting the "sociopathic murderer in ME3." Just who does Shep kill? Mordin or Wiks? Well there's nothing sociopathic about that. Shep can 1) feel the Krogan are a big danger and/or 2) Salarian aid for the Reaper War is more important. In either case this is about weighing the benefits of one life versus potentially many more lives. Another possible victim is Falere. Again, being an Ardat-Yakshi Falare poses a possible threat either because of the Ardat-Yakshi penchant for sexual predation or because she might become a Banshee. Again, that is not sociopathy. Wrex? Well, as Kaisershep pointed out, he came for Shepard, not the other way around.
Now consider ME2. I just met up with Mordin's assistant Daniel and for the first time ever I took the "I can't trust you" option with the Batarians. Shep & Co. then proceed to gun down the Batarians and Daniel accuses Shep of cold-blooded murder. And he's right. Or what about Joram Taleed? That's not sociopathy? Pushing a merc out a window is not sociopathy? Aresh? "A bullet to the head solves everything." If anything, the ME2 renegade is the biggest sociopath of the series.
Yeah, I'm not getting the "sociopathic murderer in ME3." Just who does Shep kill? Mordin or Wiks? Well there's nothing sociopathic about that. Shep can 1) feel the Krogan are a big danger and/or 2) Salarian aid for the Reaper War is more important. In either case this is about weighing the benefits of one life versus potentially many more lives. Another possible victim is Falere. Again, being an Ardat-Yakshi Falare poses a possible threat either because of the Ardat-Yakshi penchant for sexual predation or because she might become a Banshee. Again, that is not sociopathy. Wrex? Well, as Kaisershep pointed out, he came for Shepard, not the other way around.
Now consider ME2. I just met up with Mordin's assistant Daniel and for the first time ever I took the "I can't trust you" option with the Batarians. Shep & Co. then proceed to gun down the Batarians and Daniel accuses Shep of cold-blooded murder. And he's right. Or what about Joram Taleed? That's not sociopathy? Pushing a merc out a window is not sociopathy? Aresh? "A bullet to the head solves everything." If anything, the ME2 renegade is the biggest sociopath of the series.
Not necessarily. The Batarians, the Merc and Aresh can be seen as potentially dangerous. The Merc for example was involved in killing innocent workers. One might think that they either deserved that or that those acts prevented more deaths in the future. (It's one way to look at it, not saying it's the right one)
As for Joram Taleed (the turian politician right?) if you play a pro human Shepard you'd want him out of the way. Yeah it's shady, but not neccesarily sociopathic.
Also, the situation with Falere is a good example how renegade options often were presented (in all 3 games, but most of all in ME3).When it comes to the decision, the game immediately starts to manipulate the player into picking paragon. Falere assures you that she stays there no matter what, that she kills herself before the Reaper can get toher and all that jazz. Paragon gets all the arguments, all the excuses. If you want arguments for the renegade option you have to think for yourself. But the most idiotic thing is how it was Shepard him/herself who rescued Falere from the bomb. This makes Shepard look like a complete retard. Why would (s)he go through the trouble if (s)he was going to kill her anyways? I can't remember a situation where paragon Shepard looked so dumb. (Renegade, several times).
Full renegade Shepard pretty much is a sociopath in every ME Game.
In ME s/he yells at people because they can't sleep, kills an entire colony because s/he can't be bothered to use the knockout-grenades and shoots surrendering enemies in the face because s/he can.
In ME 2 s/he let's deranged serial killers lounge on her/his ship and is totally okay with torturing an autistc child for the sake of mind controlling other sentinent beings.
In ME3 s/he first saves an ardat yakshi from an explosion only to persoally shoot her in the face right afterwards and approves of slowly and painfully strangling a prisoner to death.
In ME3 s/he first saves an ardat yakshi from an explosion only to persoally shoot her in the face right afterwards and approves of slowly and painfully strangling a prisoner to death.
The ardat-yakshi choice is poorly handled, I admit. It should have been samara to drag her out of there, otherwise, we could have simply been given the decision to leave or save Falere from the explosion right at that moment. Falere would no doubt have had an interesting look on her face at that point.
As for Petrovsky, that one is tricky. While there's probably little distinction between letting someone else do the strangling than doing it yourself, in that position, my primary concern would be whether or not I truly believe that he'd be at all useful in helping to combat the Illusive Man. If I don't, then I'd simply shoot him, but if I'm going to kill him, I'd might as well just allow someone else to go through the trouble for me, slowly and painfully as it may be.
Yes, exactly. Yet another slap in the face by ME3's derpy mechanics. I love renegade Shepard in ME1 and 2, but I cannot kill Wrex, nor can I kill Mordin. I just do not have that sociopathy in me. Legion....... The ME3 Legion is one shady fvck. I have no problem wiping out him and his derpy Geth pals.
What happened to the the Dyson Uber Geth Sphere???? I thought that was the future of the Geth.......
Answer-
Walters'd
I don't think Mac was writing the Rannoch arc, nor do I think he forced Patrick Weekes to do so.
I don't believe renegade is made to be done in full. Haven yet. The Red coloration might be a mistake. Too many people associate it with evil, it's actually the most morally complex set of choices that can be made.
Unfortunately Gray won't Show up well in a dialog overlay. Primary (Vibrant) colors are best.
I love making renegade choices although i wouldn't say i favor it over paragon. I try to adhere to my own moral code when i make choices in Mass Effect. My last play through was a little less than a quarter renegade yet still felt pretty gray. I give myself a lot of elbow room on the subject of being a good boy. Certain characters respond better to Renegade choices, too, i notice. Jack for one, Wrex, too, Ashley, in some cases, Illusive man (especially in 3 though not if you ask him), just to name a few.
In short i love the nuance and complexity and how nothing's clear cut.
Would love to see one change though, some dialog options feel like a toss up between insult and speaking my mind. Maybe a little clarification of what i'll be getting when i choose the option. Something that describes the feeling/ purpose with which the line will be delivered
Like this:
The depth of the negotiation from deciding a goal to executing the goal of the protagonist in the above video is precisely what mass effect could use to beef up it's dialogue.
There are probably three different renegades in each of the second two games when you think about it. I want Renshep to be the guy who pushes an Eclipse Merc (who really deserves it) out of the window with an awesome one liner. But not the same guy who hands David over to Cerberus with tubes crammed down his throat, after listening to him scream for help for 20 mins.
This.
The guy that is totally cool with the mentally handicapped being experimented on, and who eggs Jack on to kill Aresh for the lulz, would never have made it to Lt. Commander. Someone so obviously psychologically unsound would long before have had their military career crash and burn.
Full evil doesn't really work with an Alliance military officer, IMO. Now if there was a Mass Effect game where the protagonist is a mercenary or a pirate, I think 'evil' renegade could work.
I want Renshep to be the guy who pushes an Eclipse Merc (who really deserves it) out of the window with an awesome one liner. But not the same guy who hands David over to Cerberus with tubes crammed down his throat, after listening to him scream for help for 20 mins.
For me it's the other way around; There is nothing to gain by murdering a security guard who's just doing the thing he's supposed to do, it's just a wanton act of cruelty. On the other, as painfull as it might be to one invidiual the possible benefits of project overlord should not be easily disregarded.
For me it's the other way around; There is nothing to gain by murdering a security guard who's just doing the thing he's supposed to do, it's just a wanton act of cruelty. On the other, as painfull as it might be to one invidiual the possible benefits of project overlord should not be easily disregarded.
The Eclipse mercs on that mission were hired initially for security but none of them seemed to have any objection to gunning down the workers, I don't feel bad for the guy who would join such a group. Practically, killing him insures he doesn't tell his friends that you made it to that level.
As for David, I would rather not leave him in the hands of the inept Cerberus.
ME3's Shepard has a greater scale in decisions, but ME2's Shepard easily has greater opportunities to be a sociopathic murderer, and that's largely because ME2's Shepard, even ME1's, can actually show a great deal of satisfaction in the whole affair. Just look at the renegade path for Jack's loyalty mission. I mean, that line about a bullet to the head solving everything, after encouraging murdering some troubled person who would have easily been in Jack's place is just bad all around.
The Eclipse mercs on that mission were hired initially for security but none of them seemed to have any objection to gunning down the workers, I don't feel bad for the guy who would join such a group. Practically, killing him insures he doesn't tell his friends that you made it to that level.
You can't blame the actions of one some inviduals on that of others. And if you want be discreet you can just quietly knock him rather than loudly break a glass window.
There are probably three different renegades in each of the second two games when you think about it. I want Renshep to be the guy who pushes an Eclipse Merc (who really deserves it) out of the window with an awesome one liner. But not the same guy who hands David over to Cerberus with tubes crammed down his throat, after listening to him scream for help for 20 mins.
He/ she can be, right? Just make the choices you see fit, neither choice is forced right?
You can't blame the actions of one some inviduals on that of others. And if you want be discreet you can just quietly knock him rather than loudly break a glass window.
Okay, except, that's not the case here. It's not like he was some random security guard that was left out of the company order to start shooting up civilians, leaving him completely in the dark about what was going on in the tower; this is even more unlikely considering he was a 'team' leader. He was given the exact same orders as everyone else. Even if he didn't directly shoot some one, he knew about what was going on in the tower, relayed those orders to his men, and chose not to do anything to stop it. Also, he is part of Eclipse. The organization that has been doing this exact thing every time they are encountered and are stated by the Codex to be an organization with little moral qualms as long as money is involved. This is also the group where you have to murder someone to become initiated. There is no way he was some innocent accidentally caught up in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Also, how do you knock someone out discreetly when they are wearing the full ME battle armor? Was Shepard supposed to swiftly strike his helmet or do some Salarian sleeper hold?
He/ she can be, right? Just make the choices you see fit, neither choice is forced right?
Some people like to play 'pure' playthroughs with just paragon/renegade options. I take whatever suits my character or my conscience. I've never been able to hurt Mordin and leaving an autistic man hooked up to Overlord is beyond cruel. It's nightmare fuel for a regular person and I think people fail to consider how much worse it is for someone like David. They never gave me a renegade option to personally execute Gavin Archer which upset me. I can shove a mercenary out a window but not deal with him? He was a bit part in the third game- I don't see what good giving him plot armour did.
Some people like to play 'pure' playthroughs with just paragon/renegade options. I take whatever suits my character or my conscience. I've never been able to hurt Mordin and leaving an autistic man hooked up to Overlord is beyond cruel. It's nightmare fuel for a regular person and I think people fail to consider how much worse it is for someone like David. They never gave me a renegade option to personally execute Gavin Archer which upset me. I can shove a mercenary out a window but not deal with him? He was a bit part in the third game- I don't see what good giving him plot armour did.
If you have David go to Grisson, you can tell Gavin that he doesn't deserve to know about David surviving Grissom which leads to Gavin walking off screen and shooting himself
If you have David go to Grisson, you can tell Gavin that he doesn't deserve to know about David surviving Grissom which leads to Gavin walking off screen and shooting himself
It's not the same as taking care of him personally- that's him killing himself because he can't handle what he did. I have a cousin with autism, trust me- Gavin skipped about a dozen steps in the remorse and regrets wheel. He didn't even volunteer to let his brother go and that he would be safe from Cerberus. It was all about his ambition and wants- Gavin gets off far too easily either way. I'd love a renegade option where you leave the monster hooked up to the equipment that his brother was and telling him he better hope the Illusive Man brokered his failure and saved him instead of killing him outright.
For me, it's quite personal what he inflicted on his brother.
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