176 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

What are you talking about?  1000 years of unblemished success versus less than a decade of organized rebellion on the part of mages...  historically, the Chantry has done a fine job of protecting and guiding the common man.  You can't dismiss everything they've done to keep Thedas safe because of this ridiculous uprising...

Not 1000 years something about 800 years constant disasters caused by mages they pretty much can't control mages from what i saw mages escape regularly from circles , learn blood magic even in circles easily , and many mages are still not spoted.

 

Pretty much im sure that im forced to fix mess they should prevent or fix every game.

[TheJediSaint]

Nobody is strong enough to rule over all of it at once. It's too big and too diverse. It's unrealistic in real life and in Thedas.

An Archdemon probably could after a victorious Blight.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Even they have an increasingly bad track record.

[Icy Magebane]

Not 1000 years something about 800 years constant disasters caused by mages they pretty much can't control mages from what i saw mages escape regularly from circles , learn blood magic even in circles easily , and many mages are still not spoted.

 

Pretty much im sure that im forced to fix mess they should prevent or fix every game.

Whoa now... 800 years of constant disasters caused by mages?  Are we talking about the same series?  Yes, there are apostates who cause trouble from time to time, but aside from the Blights, there are few magical disasters on record... you must also remember that a single abomination can destroy a small village, therefore it is unreasonable to expect the Chantry to be able to prevent all hostile acts by mages.  If even one of them gets loose they can cause a lot of damage... I think we should give credit where it's due.  The Chantry managed to keep the vast majority of the mages they captured contained within the Circle for at least 800 years.  That's impressive, considering how much damage could have been done had they done nothing...

[Drasanil]

Not 1000 years something about 800 years constant disasters caused by mages they pretty much can't control mages from what i saw mages escape regularly from circles , learn blood magic even in circles easily , and many mages are still not spoted.

 

You know, you're right... except in every way that you're not. The entire reason Anders exploded the Chantry in DA2 was because the status-quo had worked 'well enough' for so long and he was trying to ensure it would be impossible to return to it, because he and his imaginary friend personally did not care for it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Nobody is strong enough to rule over all of it at once. It's too big and too diverse. It's unrealistic in real life and in Thedas.

 

I actually smiled at that.

 

Congratulations;  you gave me my first smile of the day.

[Daerog]

What are Andraste's miracles?

 

Well, we don't know all the possible tiny ones (like healing people, maybe?), but we know the biggest miracle that no magic could possibly do.

 

She brought the Maker back.

 

She was the reason the Maker gave the mortals a second chance, which was ruined with her murder.

 

Now she is creation's mediator, hearing the prayers of the faithful while the Maker looks for the faithful departed to bring to his side.

 

Whether she is divine or not and a mage or not is what is debated between the two Chantries.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why? You yourself lamented you weren't going to see it yourself on the other page.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Whoa now... 800 years of constant disasters caused by mages?  Are we talking about the same series?  Yes, there are apostates who cause trouble from time to time, but aside from the Blights, there are few magical disasters on record... you must also remember that a single abomination can destroy a small village, therefore it is unreasonable to expect the Chantry to be able to prevent all hostile acts by mages.  If even one of them gets loose they can cause a lot of damage... I think we should give credit where it's due.  The Chantry managed to keep about 90% or more of the mages they captured contained within the Circle for at least 800 years.  That's impressive, considering how much damage could have been done had they done nothing...

Yep we are talking about same series unless we don't talk about dragon age.Zathrain curse? Connor rampage? Blood mages in ferelden circle? Jowan escape?Blood mages in denerim? Mage collective? Baroness? Anders escape 8 times? and that is only first game don't mention second game and stuff from other products.

 

 

You know, you're right... except in every way that you're not. The entire reason Anders exploded the Chantry in DA2 was because the status-quo had worked 'well enough' for so long and he was trying to ensure it would be impossible to return to it, because he and his imaginary friend personally did not care for it. 

Dude don't make me laugh if kirkwall was working well i don't want know what do you think is working bad pretty much kirkwall was blood mage on blood mage and abomnation on abomnation.

   

[Master Warder Z_]

Why? You yourself lamented you weren't going to see it yourself on the other page.

 

.--. Indeed, it will happen...eventually but it will in all likelihood occur long after my death.

 

Global government is the most likely scenario to responding to the various crisis's that plague us down the road, but that's merely my conjecture.

 

In Thedas though? They already have a system in place to unite the populaces behind direct unified rule, something we sadly lack, the Chantry, with the Chantry Thedosians have their tool of unification, through it Orlais can literally rule the known world if certain things came to pass, unlikely but i cannot help but see the potential of a true Orlesian Empire.

[Drasanil]

Dude don't make me laugh if kirkwall was working well i don't want know what do you think is working bad pretty much kirkwall was blood mage on blood mage and abomnation on abomnation.   

 

Kirkwall was an anomaly, Thedas' equivalent of the Hellmouth in Buffy. That doesn't mean the system didn't work most other places. Anders' aim was not to start a rebellion just in Kirkwall but across all of the Chantry dominated lands, Kirkwall was just the most fertile ground available for a loon like him.  

[raging_monkey]

And its starting... took long enough.*brings popcorn*

[Daerog]

Thedas may be able to be dominated by a single empire, sure, why not?

 

The Qunari seem to rule whatever is in the north, why not Orlais in the south?

 

However, I doubt the whole world can be dominated by Orlais at this point without a lot of strong magic. Communication issues and oversight and such...

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kirkwall was an anomaly, Thedas' equivalent of the Hellmouth in Buffy. That doesn't mean the system didn't work most other places. Anders' aime was not to start a rebellion just in Kirkwall but across all of the Chantry dominated lands, Kirkwall was just the most fertile ground vailable for a loon like him.  

Not rly we saw more than 1 circle they worked almost as poorly.That system is in place doesn't mean that works pretty much orzammar caste system lasted for centuries despite being suicidal.

[Icy Magebane]

Yep we are talking about same series unless we don't talk about dragon age.Zathrain curse? Connor rampage? Blood mages in ferelden circle? Jowan escape?Blood mages in denerim? Mage collective? Baroness? Anders escape 8 times? and that is only first game don't mention second game and stuff from other products.  

I dunno... I mean, Thedas is a dangerous place.  The protection that the Circles have been providing for centuries is still better than nothing.  Take the number of incidents you listed and multiply it by a thousand, and you'll get a rough estimate of how many similar problems would occur in a year without the Circle... assuming society would have even made it this far had the Chantry never existed in the first place.

 

Also, the Circle is merely one aspect of the Chantry.  They are also responsible for the Exalted Marches against the Qunari and various charitable programs that help the needy.  Overall, I think they've been a positive influence on Thedas... well, for humanity, at least.

[myahele]

Her miracle? Making most thread end up chantry vs mages and/ or oppression

[raging_monkey]

Her miracle? Making most thread end up chantry vs mages and/ or oppression

popcorn mya ? Its starting to get good lol

[The Baconer]

.--. Indeed, it will happen...eventually but it will in all likelihood occur long after my death.

 

Global government is the most likely scenario to responding to the various crisis's that plague us down the road, but that's merely my conjecture.

 

In Thedas though? They already have a system in place to unite the populaces behind direct unified rule, something we sadly lack, the Chantry, with the Chantry Thedosians have their tool of unification, through it Orlais can literally rule the known world if certain things came to pass, unlikely but i cannot help but see the potential of a true Orlesian Empire.

 

Orlais had its 15 minutes. It's really doubtful that they'd be able to rule all of Thedas. By now, everyone knows what they really are.

 

You wouldn't even be able to pull that off without creating another schism, really.

[Drasanil]

Not rly we saw more than 1 circle they worked almost as poorly.That system is in place doesn't mean that works pretty much orzammar caste system lasted for centuries despite being suicidal.

 

Not really. The Circle in DAO fell apart, not because it was in itself objectionable, but because Uldred wanted more power for himself and Loghain gave him the opportunity to grab it. 

 

I'm not saying the circle system is perfect, it can certainly be improved, but fundamentally mages like most people probably just want to lead quiet lives where they can keep to themselves and not be unduly bothered. The Circle is the best way to implement that with a few tweaks at the most to ensure the mages can feel more fulfilled whilst keep the common population safe. 

[Daerog]

Of course they have been a positive influence in Thedas. Not just to humans, but all mortals.

 

They bring the truth of the Maker! Truth is the greatest gift, and while it can be difficult to bear by some, it must be given for the good of all!

 

For the greater good! For the Maker!

[TheKomandorShepard]

I dunno... I mean, Thedas is a dangerous place.  The protection that the Circles have been providing for centuries is still better than nothing.  Take the number of incidents you listed and multiply it by a thousand, and you'll get a rough estimate of how many similar problems would occur in a year without the Circle... assuming society would have even made it this far had the Chantry never existed in the first place.

 

Also, the Circle is merely one aspect of the Chantry.  They are also responsible for the Exalted Marches against the Qunari and various charitable programs that help the needy.  Overall, I think they've been a positive influence on Thedas... well, for humanity, at least.

That there is system doesn't mean it is good system as i said it works poorly and that it is better than nothing doesn't change it is still poor job.I would argue about that mages are danger do you think that peoples would do nothing because chantry wasn't there? They would fight with mages one way or another perhaps even more effectively than chantry.

 

Same with quanri chantry or not thedas would unite under common threat only thing i can give them is charity but i don't rly care about such stuff.

 

 

Not really. The Circle in DAO fell apart, not because it was in itself objectionable, but because Uldred wanted more power for himself and Loghain gave him the opportunity to grab it. 

 

I'm not saying the circle system is perfect, it can certainly be improved, but fundamentally mages like most people probably just want to lead quiet lives where they can keep to themselves and not be unduly bothered. The Circle is the best way to implement that with a few tweaks at the most to ensure the mages can feel more fulfilled whilst keep the common population safe. 

 

Eee no not rly blood mages were already in circle not because loghain gave them a chance and there will be a lot of chances in life it isn't different from what orsino or other mages in kirkwall were doing.Peoples want power and power corrupts and mages are walking disasters for many reasons.

[animedreamer]

Besides giving them life, the world, the fade and free will?

 

They abandoned him before he abandoned them.

 

That's the story.

How did they abandon him when they didn't even know he existed?

 

They don't know if he really created all that, The Elves have seemingly been around a lot longer than the humans yet the maker was still silent to them, and they had no indication that he existed, but humanity comes along and all of a sudden this invisible man supposedly reappears and picks one of them to pass on his message, after saying nothing for thousands of years? maybe even longer? It's no wonder only the humans believe in him and every other race thinks they are crazy. Yet the humans do admit they're worshipping the same god that cursed the world with blights, and will invoke natural disasters upon his creations one seemingly after another to a mostly human empire no less. This doesn't strike anyone else as strange? 

 

The Dwarves and Elves live peaceful for god knows how long knowing nothing of this Maker who if he did exist was silent to them since forever, until the humans show up crazy as always. Then all of a sudden the world is ****ed and this Maker is mad at everyone because some magisters trespassed into his house so he pretty much shunted them back to Earth along with some taint to create Darkspawn. Then he after he ignored the world since forever decides to pick a human woman out of the blue because she sang a song that was so awesome it moved him. Wait, so either he's ignoring his creations or he isn't which is it? He eavesdrops on Andraste but couldn't find the time to see the Dwarves or the Elves, possibly the Qunari as well not screwing up his world, or invading his realm to pass on a similar warning or message of, "hey you kids, stop worshipping false gods and turn back to me and i'll come back and make paradise available to you all." seems like the Elves and Dwarves already had paradise. Still the Maker picked little ol Andraste and with the help Elves, the Alamarri and god knows what else worked his miracles through them to over throw the Imperium? Why do all that when he clearly displays his ability according to the Chant to simply kick out the Magisters, why not simply smite the entire imperium, and go back to his silent not speaking to anyone but this one chick here ways? 

[raging_monkey]

Orlais had its 15 minutes. It's really doubtful that they'd be able to rule all of Thedas. By now, everyone knows what they really are. You wouldn't even be able to pull that off without creating another schism, really.

just mix tevinter and orlais that way its 2 powerful nations ruling lol(joke)

[Daerog]

For a god that supposedly abandoned his creation, he has done more than the whole Elvish Pantheon who only the elves have ever known about and now forgotten but for some reason still try to hold onto scraps of information.

 

Edit: Also, I think the "abandoned" just means no more divine intervention. He still watches so he can bring the faithful to his side.

[Icy Magebane]

That there is system doesn't mean it is good system as i said it works poorly and that it is better than nothing doesn't change it is still poor job.I would argue about that mages are danger do you think that peoples would do nothing because chantry wasn't there? They would fight with mages one way or another perhaps even more effectively than chantry.

 

Same with quanri chantry or not thedas would unite under common threat only thing i can give them is charity but i don't rly care about such stuff.

I just don't see how you can call the Chantry a "failure" when we consider that it did exist and that it did maintain order for centuries.  It wasn't a perfect run, because as we both know, it only takes one mage to destroy a town under the right circumstances.  The fact that the Chantry is directly responsible for preventing this from happening many times over cannot be overlooked.  Every mage that they kept inside the Circle from discovery until death is a victory on their part, and you should give them credit for that.  The same applies to the Qunari.  Sure, the nations of Thedas might have eventually decided to work together against them once the first few nations fell, but the Chantry was there and organized the Exalted March in response to Qunari aggression.  The fact that they are able to rally every nation in Thedas against their common enemies with no questions asked tells me that the Chantry had to have been doing something right for a very long time... if the system was as weak as you claim, it would not have lasted this long.

 

edit:  Let me just add that although you may not care about charity, poor people do.  Every hungry person the Chantry feeds is one less potential thief... in the short term at least.  So these things do have a positive effect on society since they can help slightly lower the crime rate...